Considering a Career in Counselling Psychology - Advice and Opinions Welcomed

eveningpeasant

Hello Boards Psychology!

I've recently become interested in going back to education to pursue a career in counselling/therapy, and would really welcome any advice/opinions from people currently studying/working in the field (or related fields) in Ireland.

I have a First-Class Honors degree in the Humanities (not psychology-related) with a strong academic record (scholarships and awards) and some office work experience in non-psychology fields.

Am becoming increasingly interested in the idea of going back to education in order to qualify as a counselor/therapist. Specifically, I'd like to work either as a counselor in a private practice or else in a university. I've been researching a lot of courses, but still not sure what the best path to this would be/if it's even realistic.

I'm assuming I'll have to go back and do a 2 year conversion course (currently looking at UCD or Trinity) followed by a masters/PhD. But the only course I can find for counselling psychology is at Trinity: Doctorate in Counselling Psychology.

The course is incredibly expensive, and there don't seem to be any funding opportunities.

I'm wondering if there's another route to this career path (such as an alternative masters/Phd program)? If you do a regular PhD rather than D Psyc. can you still enter private practice?

eveningpeasant

Forgot to add: would really like to hear what the realities of job prospects are in this career path. I would probably be 27 starting the conversion masters, meaning I would probably be somewhere between 31-32 before becoming qualified to work. I will not be able to cover all the costs myself, so would be relaying on finding funding/getting a loan.

dar100

eveningpeasant wrote: »

Forgot to add: would really like to hear what the realities of job prospects are in this career path. I would probably be 27 starting the conversion masters, meaning I would probably be somewhere between 31-32 before becoming qualified to work. I will not be able to cover all the costs myself, so would be relaying on finding funding/getting a loan.

If you are looking to do the professional Doctorate in Counselling/Clinical Psychology, it may take you a lot longer than that... Conversion course (2years) Masters (1 or 2 years) Doctorate (4 years)., and thats just the college element.

You will have to have substantial work experience, and some time spent as a assistant psychology researcher under supervision, by all accounts, these positions are not easy to come by, and very competitive.

Many people apply for a number of years to the Doctorate without success, even with the above!!!

If you have the motivation to take this route, then go for it. However, if you want to find a easier way into the field of counselling, do a degree or masters in counselling and psychotherapy.

I'm not a psychologist, so someone may be along later with better more informed feedback

eveningpeasant

dar100 wrote: »

If you are looking to do the professional Doctorate in Counselling/Clinical Psychology, it may take you a lot longer than that... Conversion course (2years) Masters (1 or 2 years) Doctorate (4 years)., and thats just the college element.

You will have to have substantial work experience, and some time spent as a assistant psychology researcher under supervision, by all accounts, these positions are not easy to come by, and very competitive.

Many people apply for a number of years to the Doctorate without success, even with the above!!!

If you have the motivation to take this route, then go for it. However, if you want to find a easier way into the field of counselling, do a degree or masters in counselling and psychotherapy.

I'm not a psychologist, so someone may be along later with better more informed feedback

Many thanks for your reply.

I agree that it would be an incredibly long and costly route, but as far as I understand there are not PSI accredited counselling masters? From what I have found, the DPsyc is the only one.

dar100

eveningpeasant wrote: »

Many thanks for your reply.

I agree that it would be an incredibly long and costly route, but as far as I understand there are not PSI accredited counselling masters? From what I have found, the DPsyc is the only one.

I think Cork run a Masters in Counselling Psychology, google is your friend:)

eveningpeasant

dar100 wrote: »

I think Cork run a Masters in Counselling Psychology, google is your friend:)

Thanks for the reply. Have used google, but can't seem to find a course specifically in counselling psychology (that course appears to no longer be available in Cork). Looking as the PSI page, the DPsyc is the only accredited counselling course in Ireland www. psihq .ie/page/art/66/0. (spaces included as I am not able to post direct links)

Jimmy Bottlehead

One big factor is cost.

Clinical Psychology is funded.
Counselling Psychology is not.

Also, the HSE love clinical psychologists. They do not love counselling psychologists.

The clinical course is extremely difficult to get onto.
The counselling course isn't in as high demand.

eveningpeasant

Jimmy Bottlehead wrote: »

One big factor is cost.

Clinical Psychology is funded.
Counselling Psychology is not.

Also, the HSE love clinical psychologists. They do not love counselling psychologists.

The clinical course is extremely difficult to get onto.
The counselling course isn't in as high demand.

Thanks so much for your input.

But will clinical psychologists be able to practice as private counselors? I am interesting in working with people with "less severe" illnesses, so don't know if the clinical course would prepare me for this. Also, as far as I understand the clinical course is only partially funded?

eveningpeasant

Also, another general question: would doing a research masters/PhD be of any value for those who want to practice, or is this for those who want to get into research?

HiGlo

Hi there eveningpeasant,
I am currently undertaking the same path as you are interested in.
I think the other responses are more focused on Clinical Psychology which I see is not what you're interested in. If it's private practice you're interested in then I wouldn't bother with the clinical route.

I had a previous ordinary degree in a completely unrelated field so I opted to start from scratch. (I wasn't 100% sure at the start if I wanted to pursue Organisational Psychology or Counselling so I started in the general area). I undertook a part time undergrad in Psychology in DBS. You seem to have found a suitable conversion course so I won't go too much into the detail of undergrad.

With regard to post-grad, I learned over the years studying that the are of Psychotherapy/Counselling is expected to become a protected term soon, which means that you'll only be able to call yourself a Psychotherapist/Counsellor if you're properly accredited. So, for me, I felt the best thing to do was start at the end (the goal) and work back..... I want to be qualified as a psychotherapist and be able to work in practice or set up privately. I researched the relevant accrediting bodies and identified the Irish Association for Counselling and Psychotherapy as the one I was most interested in. From here I looked at their accredited courses and selected the Masters that I thought would be the most relevant. Before I finished my undergrad degree I applied to DCU for the Masters in Psychotherapy and have successfully gained a place here. I'll start in September.

There is a MA in Psychotheraphy in DBS, but it's not accredited. There is a Systemic Psychotherapy Masters in UCD also, which has lots of accrediation and is more focused on Family therapy. This course was recommended to me by a friend as it gets you comfortable with working with groups & children as well as individuals. (I applied for this course but never got called for an interview )


Perhaps this method might work for you too - see where it is you're interested in getting to and work back from there to find the starting point? There's also some useful information here on Boards

If you have any questions, I'm happy to chat more over PM, or here...

HiGlo

Hi there eveningpeasant,
I am currently undertaking the same path as you are interested in.
I think the other responses are more focused on Clinical Psychology which I see is not what you're interested in. If it's private practice you're interested in then I wouldn't bother with the clinical route.

I had a previous ordinary degree in a completely unrelated field so I opted to start from scratch. (I wasn't 100% sure at the start if I wanted to pursue Organisational Psychology or Counselling so I started in the general area). I undertook a part time undergrad in Psychology in DBS. You seem to have found a suitable conversion course so I won't go too much into the detail of undergrad.

With regard to post-grad, I learned over the years studying that the are of Psychotherapy/Counselling is expected to become a protected term soon, which means that you'll only be able to call yourself a Psychotherapist/Counsellor if you're properly accredited. So, for me, I felt the best thing to do was start at the end (the goal) and work back..... I want to be qualified as a psychotherapist and be able to work in practice or set up privately. I researched the relevant accrediting bodies and identified the Irish Association for Counselling and Psychotherapy as the one I was most interested in. From here I looked at their accredited courses and selected the Masters that I thought would be the most relevant. Before I finished my undergrad degree I applied to DCU for the Masters in Psychotherapy and have successfully gained a place here. I'll start in September.

There is a MA in Psychotheraphy in DBS, but it's not accredited. There is a Systemic Psychotherapy Masters in UCD also, which has lots of accrediation and is more focused on Family therapy. This course was recommended to me by a friend as it gets you comfortable with working with groups & children as well as individuals. (I applied for this course but never got called for an interview )


Perhaps this method might work for you too - see where it is you're interested in getting to and work back from there to find the starting point? There's also some useful information here on Boards

If you have any questions, I'm happy to chat more over PM, or here...

eveningpeasant

Thanks HiGlo! Incredibly informative post, and I've sent you a PM.

Jimmy Bottlehead

eveningpeasant wrote: »

Thanks so much for your input.

But will clinical psychologists be able to practice as private counselors? I am interesting in working with people with "less severe" illnesses, so don't know if the clinical course would prepare me for this. Also, as far as I understand the clinical course is only partially funded?

Yes clinical psychologists can operate their own private practices, but they're expected to work for the HSE for at least three years to 'pay back' the HSE for the training received.

I believe the salary while studying part time is ~35k and fees are reduced: UCD's website states

The fees for the Doctoral Programme in Clinical Psychology are €14,500 per annum.
The current sponsorship arrangement with the HSE includes a 60% payment towards the trainees annual fee, the trainee is responsible for the shortfall i.e. 40% of the annual fee payment (€5,800).
Most trainees take a bank/credit union loan in order to fund their fee payments.

eveningpeasant

Jimmy Bottlehead wrote: »

Yes clinical psychologists can operate their own private practices, but they're expected to work for the HSE for at least three years to 'pay back' the HSE for the training received.

I believe the salary while studying part time is ~35k and fees are reduced: UCD's website states

Hi Jimmy,

Ah, that clarifies things - I thought the salary was 14,500 per year, so that you would have to cover the extra 5-ish grand and living expenses. Thank you for clearing this up! I suppose it is always good to keep clinical in mind, and I might develop a stronger interest in it than expected during my conversion course (though I understand that entry to it would be incredibly competitive).

JuliusCaesar

1. Clinical psychologists do also work in private practice, doing psychotherapy/counselling with individuals.

2. So do Counselling Psychologists.

3. Clin Psych courses are funded because the HSE will employ the graduates on completion of the course.

4. Counselling Psychology is a much newer degree/specialism and is not funded, nor is the HSE entirely set up to employ them.

5. Clinical Psychology courses are really difficult to get into. I've heard stories of hundreds of applicants for each place. This sets the bar really high: to get in, you need previous qualifications (MSc in research, MSc in whatever, PhD even) and lots of previous experience, mostly as a volunteer in various mental health organisations. To do all this, most people require financial support from parents/spouse or loans.

6. Psychotherapis/Counsellor becoming a protected title is a rumour that has been going for years. The UK gave up on it. The EU hasn't managed it. There's no way to sort out the genuine from the quacks, the reputable from the irresponsible. I think that the only way this will happen is according to the various accrediting organisations. This would mean that people will become accredited Family Therapists, Jungian Psychoanalysts, CBT Therapists, Humanist Counsellors etc. (See the Find a Counsellor sticky for a list - there are quite a few.) Some accrediting organisations might be less reputable than others.

Psychotherapist or Counsellor is not even on the CORU list of professions to become statutorily registered.


.

JuliusCaesar

1. Clinical psychologists do also work in private practice, doing psychotherapy/counselling with individuals.

2. So do Counselling Psychologists.

3. Clin Psych courses are funded because the HSE will employ the graduates on completion of the course.

4. Counselling Psychology is a much newer degree/specialism and is not funded, nor is the HSE entirely set up to employ them.

5. Clinical Psychology courses are really difficult to get into. I've heard stories of hundreds of applicants for each place. This sets the bar really high: to get in, you need previous qualifications (MSc in research, MSc in whatever, PhD even) and lots of previous experience, mostly as a volunteer in various mental health organisations. To do all this, most people require financial support from parents/spouse or loans.

6. Psychotherapis/Counsellor becoming a protected title is a rumour that has been going for years. The UK gave up on it. The EU hasn't managed it. There's no way to sort out the genuine from the quacks, the reputable from the irresponsible. I think that the only way this will happen is according to the various accrediting organisations. This would mean that people will become accredited Family Therapists, Jungian Psychoanalysts, CBT Therapists, Humanist Counsellors etc. (See the Find a Counsellor sticky for a list - there are quite a few.) Some accrediting organisations might be less reputable than others.

Psychotherapist or Counsellor is not even on the CORU list of professions to become statutorily registered.


.

eveningpeasant

JuliusCaesar wrote: »

1. Clinical psychologists do also work in private practice, doing psychotherapy/counselling with individuals.

2. So do Counselling Psychologists.

3. Clin Psych courses are funded because the HSE will employ the graduates on completion of the course.

4. Counselling Psychology is a much newer degree/specialism and is not funded, nor is the HSE entirely set up to employ them.

5. Clinical Psychology courses are really difficult to get into. I've heard stories of hundreds of applicants for each place. This sets the bar really high: to get in, you need previous qualifications (MSc in research, MSc in whatever, PhD even) and lots of previous experience, mostly as a volunteer in various mental health organisations. To do all this, most people require financial support from parents/spouse or loans.

6. Psychotherapis/Counsellor becoming a protected title is a rumour that has been going for years. The UK gave up on it. The EU hasn't managed it. There's no way to sort out the genuine from the quacks, the reputable from the irresponsible. I think that the only way this will happen is according to the various accrediting organisations. This would mean that people will become accredited Family Therapists, Jungian Psychoanalysts, CBT Therapists, Humanist Counsellors etc. (See the Find a Counsellor sticky for a list - there are quite a few.) Some accrediting organisations might be less reputable than others.

Psychotherapist or Counsellor is not even on the CORU list of professions to become statutorily registered.


.

Hi Julias,

Thanks for your clear and informative answer.

From your post, the overall message I take away is that in order to become a 'legitimate' therapist/counselor, one would have to do the D. Clinical Psychology (if one is lucky enough and works hard enough to get in). I'm assuming that, once on this course, the individual doesn't have too much say in the nature of their placement and the areas they can work in?

If you have any advice in terms of career paths for someone interested in moving into psychology, and is interested in dealing with less severe mental health issues, I'd be really interested to hear.

Thanks again for you interesting input.

JuliusCaesar

eveningpeasant wrote: »

From your post, the overall message I take away is that in order to become a 'legitimate' therapist/counselor, one would have to do the D. Clinical Psychology (if one is lucky enough and works hard enough to get in).

Oh heavens no!

I would say that a base qualification in psychology is a really good base to start from, but most counsellors don't have that.

Most counsellors don't have a base mental health qualification in working with mental health patients.

I'm not disrespecting what they do, but I do think that these are really useful for anyone working in mental health. But then I've worked in the mental health services for donkey's years.

(Cowers, while waiting for sh*t to hit fan)

Have you looked at the How to Become a Counsellor/Psychotherapist sticky? the old one as well as the new one. And also the various professional organisations. But talk to people! Meet them in person! See what you think.

The Black Oil

JuliusCaesar wrote: »

4. Counselling Psychology is a much newer degree/specialism and is not funded, nor is the HSE entirely set up to employ them..

Why is that? Structural issues, inertia?

JuliusCaesar

The Black Oil wrote: »

Why is that? Structural issues, inertia?

It tends to work at a glacial pace.

The Black Oil

Like physical/general health, then.

JuliusCaesar

The Black Oil wrote: »

Like physical/general health, then.

Only more so....

The Black Oil

JuliusCaesar wrote: »

Only more so....

I sense a future opening for glacial psychologists in the HSE.

eveningpeasant

JuliusCaesar wrote: »

Oh heavens no!

I would say that a base qualification in psychology is a really good base to start from, but most counsellors don't have that.

Most counsellors don't have a base mental health qualification in working with mental health patients.

I'm not disrespecting what they do, but I do think that these are really useful for anyone working in mental health. But then I've worked in the mental health services for donkey's years.

(Cowers, while waiting for sh*t to hit fan)

Have you looked at the How to Become a Counsellor/Psychotherapist sticky? the old one as well as the new one. And also the various professional organisations. But talk to people! Meet them in person! See what you think.

Thanks for the input. I've looked at the stickey, but am still a bit confused regarding what it takes to become a well-qualified counselor. Guess I just need to do a bit more research.

eveningpeasant

So following on from the research I've done, it seems that it's not unusual for people to make a career move to being a therapist later in life (I'll be around 27 before I could start training). Most of the courses seem to be part-time over 4 years (such as Turningpoint). I'm wondering if doing one of these is enough to start making a living as a therapist in private practice?

dar100

eveningpeasant wrote: »

So following on from the research I've done, it seems that it's not unusual for people to make a career move to being a therapist later in life (I'll be around 27 before I could start training). Most of the courses seem to be part-time over 4 years (such as Turningpoint). I'm wondering if doing one of these is enough to start making a living as a therapist in private practice?

Yes, I know people making a living, and only trained to diploma level. I think it goes without saying, the more training you have the better. However, a Master degree is a fairly good standard to have. Also, in the unlikely event of regulation coming in, you would be covered.

27 is really still young to go into counselling training. I think most courses will not take students until they reach the age 25 or 27. If you feel you've time to hang around, a psychology foundation would be really helpful. I often wish I took the psychology route myself.

eveningpeasant

dar100 wrote: »

Yes, I know people making a living, and only trained to diploma level. I think it goes without saying, the more training you have the better. However, a Master degree is a fairly good standard to have. Also, in the unlikely event of regulation coming in, you would be covered.

27 is really still young to go into counselling training. I think most courses will not take students until they reach the age 25 or 27. If you feel you've time to hang around, a psychology foundation would be really helpful. I often wish I took the psychology route myself.

Thank you so much for your reply It's great to hear that it is a viable career option. Could I ask if those you know working as counselors work in private practice or for other organisations? What training courses did they do?

I also think I will try to get a foundation in psychology. I have no psych background whatsoever, and most conversion courses in Ireland seem to be 2 years. However, there are 1 year ones available in the UK. I would really like to get the scientific grounding in psychology that would come with doing a conversion masters, plus it would give me the chance to see if I'm interested in research (figure I could maybe apply to IRC for research funding if I decided I am interested)

JuliusCaesar

I think that in the past people often got jobs with any kind of counselling course. However as courses have proliferated, the demand for people with better and higher qualifications became more common. In order to future-proof yourself, you'd probably be best off looking at courses which will eventually lead to a Masters if it isn't one already. This will become the baseline qualification soon.

Mind you, without regulation, there's nothing to stop people deciding they can be counsellors, now, today, without any or minimal training, and sticking a brass plate on their door or advertising.

It is really difficult for an outsider to know how to assess a counsellor, to know what organisations have stringent registration/accreditation critera, to find someone who is properly trained and experienced. And even that doesn't guarantee a good counsellor! Just someone who met the minimum standard.

eveningpeasant

JuliusCaesar wrote: »

I think that in the past people often got jobs with any kind of counselling course. However as courses have proliferated, the demand for people with better and higher qualifications became more common. In order to future-proof yourself, you'd probably be best off looking at courses which will eventually lead to a Masters if it isn't one already. This will become the baseline qualification soon.

Mind you, without regulation, there's nothing to stop people deciding they can be counsellors, now, today, without any or minimal training, and sticking a brass plate on their door or advertising.

It is really difficult for an outsider to know how to assess a counsellor, to know what organisations have stringent registration/accreditation critera, to find someone who is properly trained and experienced. And even that doesn't guarantee a good counsellor! Just someone who met the minimum standard.

Thanks for your reply.

I would be incredibly interested in doing a masters in counselling, but the only courses I can find for counselling psychology seem to be PhDs. I get the impression that this has become the norm?

JuliusCaesar

Yes, counselling psychology is a post-grad course that's a PhD. Like Clinical Psychology.

There's a difference between Counselling Psychology, and Counselling. I think you'll find Masters in Counselling in various colleges. Depends what you want, and what kind of therapy/counselling approach you want to be trained in.

eveningpeasant

JuliusCaesar wrote: »

Yes, counselling psychology is a post-grad course that's a PhD. Like Clinical Psychology.

There's a difference between Counselling Psychology, and Counselling. I think you'll find Masters in Counselling in various colleges. Depends what you want, and what kind of therapy/counselling approach you want to be trained in.

Ah, that makes a bit more sense to me now. Thanks for clearing that up. I suppose doing a one year conversion in psychology would give me a better understanding of the different kinds of approaches there are, and then I could go on to do a masters in one of them.

One other thing I have been wondering - is a research masters of significant benefit to those who want to practice as counselors?