Summer Luas Disruption: Red Line

SimonTemplar

There was a person conducting passenger surveys on the red line today to quantify the impact on passengers of planned Luas disruption.

She said that throughout the summer, all stops between Abbey St and The Point inclusive will be closed. Therefore, Jervis will be the last/first stop for inbound/outbound services.

She said there will be a replacement bus service operating between Heuston and The Point.

She said the dates haven't been confirmed yet but there will be an advertising campaign beforehand to inform us.

The disruption is because they are replacing the tracks.

(This is all based on what she told me so the final plans may change but she did show me a map of the red line with Xs through all the stops after Jervis)

loyatemu

it's to put in the junctions with the Cross-City Luas I'd imagine.

noelfirl

Can't quite see how they can run trams to Jervis, I don't believe there's any turnback in the vicinity to get the trams back out of the city without some dodgy wrong line running. Would have presumed they'd have to terminate at Smithfield at the latest?

Jamie2k9

I cannot possibly see it been closed for that long. All work can be carried out with normal service and then prehaps a week or two closure max to install the tracks crossing one another/points.

Sensible thing would be last week or two in July/first week or two in August but suspect contractors will also take holidays then.

Can't quite see how they can run trams to Jervis, I don't believe there's any turnback in the vicinity to get the trams back out of the city without some dodgy wrong line running. Would have presumed they'd have to terminate at Smithfield at the latest?

Correct.

The surveys are a waste of time, we will see the impact in a few weeks, it will be marginally less in summer.

Losty Dublin

There isn't anything to stop the trams work "wrong way" into or out of Jervis if required. Some form of pointsman might be employed at Smithfield to ensure one set enters the track at a time but that's it.

noelfirl

The trams may be directed easily enough but you've got to run wrong way against other traffic back down Abbey Street and Mary's Abbey and take into the account the myriad of major and minor crossing streets. You're getting down to either major traffic diversions or having a man with a red flag walking in front while the tram crawls along at 5 kph.

Jamie2k9

noelfirl wrote: »

The trams may be directed easily enough but you've got to run wrong way against other traffic back down Abbey Street and Mary's Abbey and take into the account the myriad of major and minor crossing streets. You're getting down to either major traffic diversions or having a man with a red flag walking in front while the tram crawls along at 5 kph.

There are options and some of the junctions between Abbey-Smithfeild are signaled both sides each way. It will require additional manpower but doable for a short period of time.

There is no reason why they can't do the junction working 24 hours and it should only be a short closure if good planning is done. The speed which some of the works around College Green have been done are a good example, only Friday the places was almost completely ripped up and on Monday the tram line was opened to traffic.

dogsouljah

noelfirl wrote: »

Can't quite see how they can run trams to Jervis, I don't believe there's any turnback in the vicinity to get the trams back out of the city without some dodgy wrong line running. Would have presumed they'd have to terminate at Smithfield at the latest?

There will be a temporary turnback installed just East of the Jervis stop to allow for trams turning back outbound, in all likelihood.

foggy_lad

They will probably operate a shuttle between Heuston and Jervis and operate a full service from Heuston to Tallaght/Saggart

Captain Chaos

foggy_lad wrote: »

They will probably operate a shuttle between Heuston and Jervis and operate a full service from Heuston to Tallaght/Saggart

That would never work, the amount of people that use it go from James and Heuston to Jervis at peak times as it is. A shuttle service won't cut that. It's crush load most days between those stops both ways.

Grandeeod

If only some joined up thinking had been applied many years ago, this would be a non issue.:rolleyes:

Jamie2k9

dogsouljah wrote: »

There will be a temporary turnback installed just East of the Jervis stop to allow for trams turning back outbound, in all likelihood.

Don't see that happening myself, way to complicated for a short space of time.

dublinbusdude

Would like to see this myself!

Rawr

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Don't see that happening myself, way to complicated for a short space of time.

Not necessarily, I've seen the following installed temporarily here in Oslo fairly often when a short-term fix was needed.



Some are automatic, but often I've seen them run manually. It sits into the existing track and then bolted into the road to keep it in place.

Irish Steve

Rawr wrote: »

Not necessarily, I've seen the following installed temporarily here in Oslo fairly often when a short-term fix was needed.



Some are automatic, but often I've seen them run manually. It sits into the existing track and then bolted into the road to keep it in place.

And how long would that last after the first claim from a cyclist that was half asleep or more interested in something other than watching where they were going?

Rawr

Irish Steve wrote: »

And how long would that last after the first claim from a cyclist that was half asleep or more interested in something other than watching where they were going?

Whenever they've setup one of these in Oslo I have noticed that they've put up signage forbidding all non-tram traffic, and often they'd also add a 'tram-gate' to physically hinder non-tram traffic.

Never seems to be an issue. They are usually well isolated, and a cyclist would have to willing ignore a lot of warnings and physical barriers before reaching the junction.

LeinsterDub

Irish Steve wrote: »

And how long would that last after the first claim from a cyclist that was half asleep or more interested in something other than watching where they were going?

They'll all end up in the Liffey

newacc2015

Grandeeod wrote: »

If only some joined up thinking had been applied many years ago, this would be a non issue.:rolleyes:

But Limerick doesnt have a Luas! Why should Dublin have 2 joined up Luas lines when places like Sligo or Limerick dont have a Luas? I know Dublin has the population for it. But why does Dublin need to get everything?

It is interesting that in NYC they are considering a new tramline to go through Brooklyn. They imagine they will pay for it from property taxes, as when you put a new transport link in. Property prices will increase, so property taxes will. They are pretty confident that property taxes will cover the cost of several decades.

Imagine if Dublin had a proper LPT system and got to keep the LPT, what Dublin city transport could look like

Carawaystick

newacc2015 wrote: »

Imagine if Dublin had a proper LPT system and got to keep the LPT, what Dublin city transport could look like

If Dublin could collect rates from the state occupied buildings, it'd blow any local property tax out of the water...

LeinsterDub

Carawaystick wrote: »

If Dublin could collect rates from the state occupied buildings, it'd blow any local property tax out of the water...

A smalll underdog struggling under the yoke of occupation. What you all doing Easter Monday lads?

Grandeeod

newacc2015 wrote: »

But Limerick doesnt have a Luas! Why should Dublin have 2 joined up Luas lines when places like Sligo or Limerick dont have a Luas? I know Dublin has the population for it. But why does Dublin need to get everything?

It is interesting that in NYC they are considering a new tramline to go through Brooklyn. They imagine they will pay for it from property taxes, as when you put a new transport link in. Property prices will increase, so property taxes will. They are pretty confident that property taxes will cover the cost of several decades.

Imagine if Dublin had a proper LPT system and got to keep the LPT, what Dublin city transport could look like

Surely you forgot a smiley or two in that post.:D

kildarecommuter

Grandeeod wrote: »

If only some joined up thinking had been applied many years ago, this would be a non issue.:rolleyes:

It was called the Dublin United Tramways Company and operated an excellent integrated tram service citywide until various Ministers for Transport closed it down, and then lifted all the lines!

LeinsterDub

kildarecommuter wrote: »

It was called the Dublin United Tramways Company and operated an excellent integrated tram service citywide until various Ministers for Transport closed it down, and then lifted all the lines!

In fairness that was more or less the prevailing wisdom in many countries

kildarecommuter

LeinsterDub wrote: »

In fairness that was more or less the prevailing wisdom in many countries

In the UK, most of Europe managed to keep theirs on some form or other