Mechanic said new engine needed!

honda boi

I purchased a 04 ford cmax 1.6 diesel about 3 weeks ago.
All was perfect when I bought it.
After a week or 2 it became kinda sluggish then on Sunday while driving it ,it blew a lot of white smoke and wouldn't go over 3000 revs. AA came out and said it was the egr valve . Got it towed to my mechanic who now says the turbo is b@lloxed and needs a new engine!!!!
The car started and drove so cant understand how a new engine is needed?
Are these the symptoms of needing a new engine????

shietpilot

Those engines give trouble with the banjo nut for oil to the turbo. Lack of oil changes make the lines clog up and blow the turbo. I don't see why you would need a new engine, unless it's cheaper to get a new engine with turbo and EGR already on it than buying a new EGR and turbo separately.

I would suspect cleaning the EGR valve would fix it though.

martinr5232

Id be inclined to believe your mechanic turbos give a lot of trouble on these and its very easy to diagnose a faulty turbo.

Egr faults could be caused by oil being thrown out the exaust clogging the egr.

honda boi

I believe him saying the turbo could be gone too but a whole new engine needed,seems a bit much.!
More annoyed because only bought the damn car so recently!!

Kristopherus

What kind of guarantee did you get?

honda boi

Kristopherus wrote: »

What kind of guarantee did you get?

Unfortunately it was a private sale

Man11

Somehow and I don't know hoe but you can still do something about it even though its a private sale . Look into it.

Duke O Smiley

Man11 wrote: »

Somehow and I don't know hoe but you can still do something about it even though its a private sale . Look into it.

No you can't

Unless you can prove the seller knew there was a problem with the car when selling it to you and s/he kept this from you, you can. Proving that as you can imagine would be difficult

Man11

Duke O Smiley wrote: »

No you can't

Unless you can prove the seller knew there was a problem with the car when selling it to you and s/he kept this from you, you can. Proving that as you can imagine would be difficult

Well of there is old oil and turbo wend or d valve went on it , it would of been noticed by seller . By the way you can

Duke O Smiley

Man11 wrote: »

Well of there is old oil and turbo wend or d valve went on it , it would of been noticed by seller . By the way you can

How would it be noticed by the seller two weeks after they sold the car?

And how exactly can anything be done in a private sale? Please do explain as I am very interested to hear how as are others I'm sure

dr.fuzzenstein

honda boi wrote: »

I believe him saying the turbo could be gone too but a whole new engine needed,seems a bit much.!
More annoyed because only bought the damn car so recently!!

He has to give you a better reason than just "it needs a new engine".

shietpilot

Honestly, the EGR valve would cause most of the trouble like being sluggish, smokey and not revving past 3000 RPM. I would be really surprised if the turbo is knackered as well.

I would probably try and block the EGR to see how the car runs without it and go from there. You could get a blanking plate on eBay for less than €10. You could then try cleaning the EGR valve if the car runs fine.

See: http://www.fordownersclub.com/forums/topic/42915-guide-fitting-egr-blanking-plate-16tdci-engine/

Bio Mech

Man11 wrote: »

Well of there is old oil and turbo wend or d valve went on it , it would of been noticed by seller . By the way you can

You can't do anything about it. Private sale. You don't seem to know what you are talking about.

Blazer

Get the egr removed although its a 04 so the engine mighn't be that expensive.

mullingar

I have completely rebuilt a few of these engines so I know them very well.

White smoke means water is getting into the engine.

Not revving over 3k can be one of a few reasons. The ECU has detected a major fault (OBD scanner will assist) or the turbo/turbo actuator is not right or there is too much recycled exhaust (EGR faulty) or the DPF is blocked.

On that engine there is a EGR valve on the rear of the engine, near the gearbox, and the ECU controls this valve to recirculate some exhaust back into the inlet to reduce the NOx emissions. The EGR is normally closed under load and partially open during idle. The EGR'd exhaust is channeled through a 1.5" pipe on the rear of the engine until it curls back into the top left on the engine for recycling, this pipe also runs through a larger 2" pipe about 6" long hidden at the back o the engine that is full of coolant to cool the exhaust gas down before its fed back into the engine. If this cooler pipe is leaking internally it will cause water to enter the engine. The quickest way to diagnose if this is at fault is to first check you have enough coolant in the system and disconnect the curled metal pipe on top of the engine with 2x torx screws and rev it. If any water comes out of this it could be coolant.

The other way water can get into the engine is a faulty head gasket that is partially blown with coolant leaking into one of the cylinders but this would be unlikely.


I would not write that engine off yet.
- Check coolant leak in EGR pipe
- Check for water in oil
- Check obd error codes
- Perform a leak-off check to see if HG is faulty.


The problem with this engine is that it is VERY labour intensive engine and by the time you include several hours to rebuild this engine you are at the cost of a pre-loved engine and most scrappies offer some warranty on a used engine, but proper diagnosis is key


-

honda boi

I haven't got the chance to go ask the mechanic exactly what's wrong.
He basically was giving out about it and saying to bring it back to the lad that sold it.lol
Would removing it not cause other problems? Surely it's there for a reason?
Looked at a new engine for it just to get an idea in case worst case scenario, about €850 for one !!!!! And that doesn't include labour!!!

honda boi

mullingar wrote: »

I have completely rebuilt a few of these engines so I know them very well.

White smoke means water is getting into the engine.

Not revving over 3k can be one of a few reasons. The ECU has detected a major fault (OBD scanner will assist) or the turbo/turbo actuator is not right or there is too much recycled exhaust (EGR faulty) or the DPF is blocked.

On that engine there is a EGR valve on the rear of the engine, near the gearbox, and the ECU controls this valve to recirculate some exhaust back into the inlet to reduce the NOx emissions. The EGR is normally closed under load and partially open during idle. The EGR'd exhaust is channeled through a 1.5" pipe on the rear of the engine until it curls back into the top left on the engine for recycling, this pipe also runs through a larger 2" pipe about 6" long hidden at the back o the engine that is full of coolant to cool the exhaust gas down before its fed back into the engine. If this cooler pipe is leaking internally it will cause water to enter the engine. The quickest way to diagnose if this is at fault is to first check you have enough coolant in the system and disconnect the curled metal pipe on top of the engine with 2x torx screws and rev it. If any water comes out of this it could be coolant.

The other way water can get into the engine is a faulty head gasket that is partially blown with coolant leaking into one of the cylinders but this would be unlikely.


I would not write that engine off yet.
- Check coolant leak in EGR pipe
- Check for water in oil
- Check obd error codes
- Perform a leak-off check to see if HG is faulty.


The problem with this engine is that it is VERY labour intensive engine and by the time you include several hours to rebuild this engine you are at the cost of a pre-loved engine and most scrappies offer some warranty on a used engine, but proper diagnosis is key


-

Thanks Mullingar.
Not sure if the mechanic checked this,but when I get it back I will.!

honda boi

So the mechanic had tested the engine and told me there's oil in cyclinder and part of the turbo broke of and was in the engine.
Was told it will be 1500€ to get a replacement engine put in!!
Need some advice onto whether or not its worth it.
The car is a 04 model,only bought in January for €2400.
Not sure if I should put the money in the car or try get more money and put it towards another car. Help would be really much appreciated

ba_barabus

You'll have to decide if it's worth spending more on this car. Is the bodywork and interior very clean? Does it need any other work done like suspension work etc?

mullingar

honda boi wrote: »

So the mechanic had tested the engine and told me there's oil in cyclinder and part of the turbo broke of and was in the engine.
Was told it will be 1500€ to get a replacement engine put in!!
Need some advice onto whether or not its worth it.
The car is a 04 model,only bought in January for €2400.
Not sure if I should put the money in the car or try get more money and put it towards another car. Help would be really much appreciated

If oil was getting into the cylinder, it would cause a lot of blue smoke.

The only way oil can get into a cylinder is if the piston rings are damaged or the cylinder wall is badly scored.

How did your mechanic diagnose those two faults? Did he pull the head off? Or have a look inside the piston with a bore-scope?


And €1500 is very reasonable for a second hand engine, supplied and fitted...

corsav6

Tbh if your thinking about replacing the engine then make sure you inspect the flywheel and replace it now if it's showing any sign of wear. It's a pig of a job to do with the engine in place but if the engine is been replaced then the flywheel needs to come off anyway so very little in labour costs to just throw a new one on along with a clutch.

grogi

mullingar wrote: »

If oil was getting into the cylinder, it would cause a lot of blue smoke.

The only way oil can get into a cylinder is if the piston rings are damaged or the cylinder wall is badly scored.

Or the turbo was leaking the oil in through the intake manifold...

dieselbug

The problem here is well known...You can fit a new turbo to those engines only for it to blow again in a very short time due to carbon particles which are carried in the oil. These then block the oilways, starveing the turbo of lubrication.

When part of the turbo gets sucked in to the engine there will be damage so your mechanic seem to be spot on.

Also you need to be really careful sourceing a used engine as most will probably be high milers and rubbish. One out of a write off is probably your best bet.

honda boi

Thanks lads.
I think I'll have to get a new engine put in,.Already paid over 2 grand for it so I'm stuck with it and defo wouldn't have 3 or 4 grand sitting around for another car.
When I get it changed is there anything else that needs to be done? Any paperwork? Insurance company need to be notified?

mullingar

Find out where the damage is first.

If the head is off, find out if there is any damage on the piston wall, if its good the engine can be rebuilt. If the head is damaged, a good machine shop will sort it out for around €300.

At least with a rebuilt engine you know its right, a second hand engine can be a lottery.....

rex-x

White smoke on these is usually the exhaust side oil seal on the turbo after failing, no company will warranty the turbos on these unless the engine block is replaced as the oil passages block up from poor maintenance, this may be where his suggestion comes from.

honda boi

So lads ,there's no chance of it being rebuilt so a new engine is needed:(
What's the procedure when it's changed? Insurance ,log book with chassis number etc?

martinr5232

honda boi wrote:

So lads ,there's no chance of it being rebuilt so a new engine is needed What's the procedure when it's changed? Insurance ,log book with chassis number etc?

You're only swapping engines like for like its not a big deal but if you really wanted to you could inform shannon but on a car that old its no big deal if you dont.

mullingar

honda boi wrote: »

So lads ,there's no chance of it being rebuilt so a new engine is needed:(
What's the procedure when it's changed? Insurance ,log book with chassis number etc?

Th problem with this engine is that its very labour intensive.

Just to get the head off, these have to be removed:
Wipers/scuttle panel
EGR valve/pipes
Turbo/exhaust
Engine Mount
Timing belt
Fuel pump (bolts are all over the place on this)
High pressure diesel hoses and CR manifold
Intake manifold/Diversion valve
Thermostat
Injectors (can be a ba$tard)
30 odd bolts to open cam box
Remove all 16x hydraulic tappets/followers
10x big head bolts.

Finally head is off.

All that would easily take a few hours just to examine the top half of the engine, the block is another headache and its 100% an engine/gearbox out job to remove the crankshaft to inspect and/or replace any journal bearings.

This labour costs $$$$$. Thats why it can be cheaper to throw in a second hand engine to avoid the diagnostic work.

As rebuilding these engines are a hobby of mine, I dont mind pulling them apart to see exactly where and how they fail, and rebuilding them.

dr.fuzzenstein

honda boi wrote: »

So lads ,there's no chance of it being rebuilt so a new engine is needed:(
What's the procedure when it's changed? Insurance ,log book with chassis number etc?

You keep saying that, but was the engine checked out and what exactly is the damage?