Open the school gates - Equate Ireland campaign

Zamboni

Powerful little clip from another organisation doing what they can to remove religious discrimination in Ireland.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GuGXWNg4atk

expectationlost

Zamboni wrote: »

Powerful little clip from another organisation doing what they can to remove religious discrimination in Ireland.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GuGXWNg4atk

What is it that board member Ruairi Quinn thinks @equateireland can do that he couldn't do as Minister for Education?

Hotblack Desiato

Good question... maybe he grew a pair in his old age?


Also interesting to see a JPF logo at the end of the PFJ video

expectationlost

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Good question... maybe he grew a pair in his old age?

oh ffs he was 65 when he became minister

smacl

expectationlost wrote: »

What is it that board member Ruairi Quinn thinks @equateireland can do that he couldn't do as Minister for Education?

Keep pushing forward much as he's always done, and more power to his elbow.

Shrap

smacl wrote: »

Keep pushing forward much as he's always done, and more power to his elbow.

Exactly. Do most people really think that there aren't massive constraints on government ministers, especially in the minority position? That once they're in government they can just enact all their policies, just like that? "Toeing the party line" hardly starts till they're actually in government juggling egos, vested interests, favours and public opinion. He did well to make any progress, even if it was only to get a nationwide profile for the campaign without getting shafted first. Has there been any progress since him?

Subcomandante Marcos

This is being spearheaded by one of the founders of BeLongTo, Michael has a lot of experience in lobbying, is respected by politicians and senior civil servants and has years of experience of developing PR campaign. These are all extremely good things.

Having Ruari Quinn's support makes this even more of a reality.

Hopefully this snowballs quickly and becomes an issue in the election.

Cabaal

Shrap wrote: »

Exactly. Do most people really think that there aren't massive constraints on government ministers, especially in the minority position? That once they're in government they can just enact all their policies, just like that? "Toeing the party line" hardly starts till they're actually in government juggling egos, vested interests, favours and public opinion. He did well to make any progress, even if it was only to get a nationwide profile for the campaign without getting shafted first. Has there been any progress since him?

Got to agree,
Those that think a TD gets into a position and can do anything and everything they want don't understand the setup in our government. Even if the party still fully backs the TD on the issue they still have to push against very very strong unions.

As we know the teachers don't like change, they (the unions) also won't even actively lobby for change such as changing the situation for gay/lesbian teachers...this instead is left up to smaller groups and TD's. Change in education is extremely slow because of this.

Shrap

Cabaal wrote: »

Even if the party still fully backs the TD on the issue they still have to push against very very strong unions.

Oh, and let's not forget the Civil Servants. You know....our unelected government! In some departments I've no doubt these officials are the strongest impediment to change. A minister's policies occasionally meets these vested interests for the first time like a head on crash into an immovable object. Rory Quinn must have been an incredible negotiator, IMO.

PopePalpatine

Shrap wrote: »

Oh, and let's not forget the Civil Servants. You know....our unelected government! In some departments I've no doubt these officials are the strongest impediment to change. A minister's policies occasionally meets these vested interests for the first time like a head on crash into an immovable object. Rory Quinn must have been an incredible negotiator, IMO.

It's been mentioned in this forum quite a few times that the Dept. of Education is possibly the most conservative of all of the government departments.

expectationlost

Shrap wrote: »

Exactly. Do most people really think that there aren't massive constraints on government ministers, especially in the minority position? That once they're in government they can just enact all their policies, just like that? "Toeing the party line" hardly starts till they're actually in government juggling egos, vested interests, favours and public opinion. He did well to make any progress, even if it was only to get a nationwide profile for the campaign without getting shafted first. Has there been any progress since him?

What is it that board member Ruairi Quinn thinks @equateireland can do that he couldn't do when Minister for Education?

galljga1

expectationlost wrote: »

What is it that board member Ruairi Quinn thinks @equateireland can do that he couldn't do when Minister for Education?

Déjà vu, again.

Shrap

expectationlost wrote: »

What is it that board member Ruairi Quinn thinks @equateireland can do that he couldn't do when Minister for Education?

The one follows the other, they're not mutually exclusive. I'm sure he did all he could while he was Minister for Education. When he resigned from this with a view to also retiring from politics, this is obviously the next logical step for him in continuing to work towards secular education. I personally am encouraged that he's still going to be putting his energies towards this in some capacity that is gaining traction.

expectationlost

Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »

This is being spearheaded by one of the founders of BeLongTo, Michael has a lot of experience in lobbying, is respected by politicians and senior civil servants and has years of experience of developing PR campaign. These are all extremely good things.

Having Ruari Quinn's support makes this even more of a reality.

Hopefully this snowballs quickly and becomes an issue in the election.

these are all good things if you exactly agree with equates plan, but what if you don't and you't don't have a millionaire to pay for lobbiests

expectationlost

Shrap wrote: »

Oh, and let's not forget the Civil Servants. You know....our unelected government! In some departments I've no doubt these officials are the strongest impediment to change. A minister's policies occasionally meets these vested interests for the first time like a head on crash into an immovable object. Rory Quinn must have been an incredible negotiator, IMO.

what did he negotiate?

Shrap

expectationlost wrote: »

what did he negotiate?

...His way through the Dept. of Ed. to get some movement on any of his policies. I think he did a good job, under the constraints we should all recognise as holding back any liberal politician that's ever been in government in Ireland.

expectationlost

Shrap wrote: »

Exactly. Do most people really think that there aren't massive constraints on government ministers, especially in the minority position? That once they're in government they can just enact all their policies, just like that? "Toeing the party line" hardly starts till they're actually in government juggling egos, vested interests, favours and public opinion. ?

its not a policy its human rights, what does the number of TDs Labour have got to do with that?

Shrap wrote: »

He did well to make any progress, even if it was only to get a nationwide profile for the campaign without getting shafted first. Has there been any progress since him?

profile?, ministers can't wave magic wnds but they can certainly do more then give an issue a profile.

Shrap

expectationlost wrote: »

its not a policy its human rights, what does the number of TDs Labour have got to do with that?



profile?, ministers can't wave magic wnds but they can certainly do more then give an issue a profile.

Sigh. I had you down as someone who knew how government worked (or doesn't work, more to the point).

If you think a human right automatically translates into government policy, you're wrong. You don't have to look too far in the past to find an example of how it doesn't, eh? Edging forward, proposed by a minority/opposed by the majority, is usually the case no?

And baby steps it might be, but his were the greatest leaps forward on the issue any government minister ever took. One has to wonder why that was. His failings, or an impenetrable process mired in bureaucracy and smoothing egos?

Subcomandante Marcos

expectationlost wrote: »

these are all good things if you exactly agree with equates plan, but what if you don't and you't don't have a millionaire to pay for lobbiests

And why wouldn't you agree with their proposal? There are enough faith based lobby groups to argue against it if they so wish.

Shrap

Posts timing out and repeating all over the shop. Boards clearly unusable again till they fix it, so I'm out. Laters!

robindch

Shrap wrote: »

Posts timing out and repeating all over the shop. Boards clearly unusable again till they fix it, so I'm out. Laters!

Three posts deleted between 11:42 and 11:48.

Reality has been updated - again - by your friend moderator team!

Bristolscale7

What's a fair standard to judge Quinn's tenure as minister? I know that he chose the ETB over some nuns as patron of some secondary schools.

expectationlost

Bristolscale7 wrote: »

What's a fair standard to judge Quinn's tenure as minister? I know that he chose the ETB over some nuns as patron of some secondary schools.

that he feels the need to be on the board of Equate funded by a billionaire and staffed by lobbiests to do what he couldn't get done as government minister, this is the standard to judge him by.

expectationlost

Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »

And why wouldn't you agree with their proposal? There are enough faith based lobby groups to argue against it if they so wish.

because I might disagree and the level of responsibility the state should take in Education and emphasis on continued use of private education providers.

Subcomandante Marcos

expectationlost wrote: »

because I might disagree and the level of responsibility the state should take in Education and emphasis on continued use of private education providers.

That's the thing though, these aren't private schools, they are public schools funded with public money which are still allowed to discriminate against children based on faith and until recently were allowed to discriminate against teachers based on sexual orientation.

If these schools want to stop accepting public funding they can do whatever they want.

expectationlost

Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »

That's the thing though, these aren't private schools, they are public schools funded with public money which are still allowed to discriminate against children based on faith and until recently were allowed to discriminate against teachers based on sexual orientation.

If these schools want to stop accepting public funding they can do whatever they want.

equate's solution seems to be more different private schools afaik funded by millionaires not tax payers

Hotblack Desiato

expectationlost wrote: »

equate's solution seems to be more different private schools afaik funded by millionaires not tax payers

Citation needed.

expectationlost

Shrap wrote: »

Sigh. I had you down as someone who knew how government worked (or doesn't work, more to the point).

If you think a human right automatically translates into government policy, you're wrong. You don't have to look too far in the past to find an example of how it doesn't, eh? Edging forward, proposed by a minority/opposed by the majority, is usually the case no?

And baby steps it might be, but his were the greatest leaps forward on the issue any government minister ever took. One has to wonder why that was.

what leaps?

expectationlost

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Citation needed.

http://media.wix.com/ugd/08f4c2_1785c556797347a18c9ce86989ad0870.pdf

http://www.equateireland.ie/#!team/mm1tb

Declan Ryan:

Declan Ryan founded the One Foundation in 2004 as a high-impact venture philanthropy fund focusing on helping children, young people, migrants and other vulnerable sections of society in both Ireland and Vietnam. He is a strong supporter of entrepreneurship and social enterprise in Ireland through the DCU Ryan Academy and was named Irish Philanthropist of the Year in 2008

Set up in 2004 by Declan Ryan and Deirdre Mortell, the One Foundation is a privately-funded Irish foundation based in Dublin
http://www.philanthropy.ie/resources/case-studies/the-one-foundation/


2 of our largest investments Educate Together
http://www.inarchive.com/ie/o/onefoundation.ie/6324938/2012-01-21-description/3/The_One_Foundation_Our_Tools/

Atlantic Philanthropies grants to ET
http://www.atlanticphilanthropies.org/grantee/educate-together

Sir, – In response to Clem Brennan’s query (January 22nd) “where are the parents giving up their evenings and weekends to campaign for Community National Schools”, the answer is closer to home than he may know.

http://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/letters/community-national-schools-1.2509922

I want to extend a huge thanks to our key financial investor, the One Foundation, for the wonderful partnership we have had over the past five years. None of the achievements we have made in the past few years would have been possible without their vision and support.

https://www.educatetogether.ie/sites/default/files/2013_impact_review.pdf https://www.educatetogether.ie/media/annual-reports

Advancing School Autonomy in Ireland
https://www.education.ie/en/Press-Events/Events/Advancing-School-Autonomy-in-Ireland/Advancing-School-Autonomy-in-Ireland.html preparing for Fine Gael minister to push for disaterous academies model in Ireland

Hotblack Desiato

It won't open.

Absolam

Shrap wrote: »

...His way through the Dept. of Ed. to get some movement on any of his policies. I think he did a good job, under the constraints we should all recognise as holding back any liberal politician that's ever been in government in Ireland.

I'm inclined to agree, I think Quinn made a real effort to start the ball rolling on changes he honestly believed in, and never had a prospect of anything other than an uphill struggle. The fact that after his tenure he continues to involve himself in the issues is a great credit to him in my opinion; we could use a lot more politicians like him in that regard.

Subcomandante Marcos

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

It won't open.

I can't for the life of me figure out where he's pulling that out if... This is the text from the pdf he linked.

“NEW GOVERNMENT MUST OPEN THE SCHOOL GATES TO ALL CHILDREN”
Press Release, Monday 1st
February 2016
Children’s rights organisation EQUATE today announced a campaign aimed at making reform
of our school’s system a priority of the next government.
The ‘Open The School Gates’ campaign is supported by key children and human rights
organisations including The ISPCC, Barnardos, Children’s Rights Alliance, EPIC, Migrant’s
Rights Centre of Ireland, BeLonG To, One Family, Pavee Point and The Humanist Association
of Ireland.
Speaking the launch of the campaign, EQUATE Executive Director Michael Barron said “The
time has come for all schools to be inclusive so that no child, regardless of their religion, is
excluded from their local school. The next government needs to prioritise education reform so
all children can grow and learn together’
“Today we are delighted to be joined by so many key children and human rights groups who
support equality in education. We believe that no child should be excluded from their local
school because of their religion or identity and we need to reform the classroom so every child
can experience and participate throughout the school day, regardless of religion or non-
religion. We have reached a national concensus on the need for these reforms, the question is
no longer ‘if’ but ‘how’ and ‘when’. We call on all political parties to prioritise equality in
education in the election ahead and on the next governement to make it a key area of work.”
As part of the campaign, EQUATE is encouraging people contact all candidates in their
constituency through their website portal but also to question local election candidates when
they call to their door, asking them to:
 Work to change the law so local schools cannot refuse a child because of their religion
 Work to reform the school day so all children can take part in every class
 Campaign for a greater number of multi and non-denominational schools
They also launched a short online film called ‘Open the School Gates’ which aims to further
the national conversation on equality in our schools.
Jodie Neary, a parent speaking at today’s launch stated, “I am mother of young twin girls and
like many other parents I don’t know where my children will be going to school and that is
simply because my partner and I have chosen not to baptise our children.
“I am supporting the Open the School Gates campaign because I want my children to have the
same rights to a school place as any other child in our community. I want politicians to know
that this is a real concern for me and many parents in my community and the time has come
for the law to change”
Grainia Long, CEO of ISPCC Childline speaking at the launch stated “We are proud to support
EQUATE’s campaign and become an active member of the “Open the School Gates Coalition.
“The ISPCC mission is to ensure all children have a positive experience of childhood and that
must start with allowing all children to access their local school and then for schools to be
inclusive, supportive and protective of children’s rights.”

Notes to the editor:
1. Michael Barron is available for interview
2. EQUATE General Election 2016 Manifesto: http://www.equateireland.ie/#!general-
election-2016/c1cuz
3. EQUATE’s Behaviour and Attitudes research:
o 46% would not chose a Christian school for their child if they had a choice
locally
o 1 in 5 are aware of someone who has baptised their child just to get them into
the local school
o 84% think the Irish education system should be reformed so that no child is
excluded because of their religion or non-religion
o 77% do not think a school should have right to refuse admission to a child who
has a different religion to that of the school’s patron
o 62% think reform of school patronage should be a key priority for next
Government
o 87% think that the State has responsibility to ensure that children do not
experience religious discrimination in school curriculum
o 82% think Ireland should do all it can to honour its international human rights
obligations to ensure equality in our education system
ENDS
For further information, please contact:
Fidelma Guinan (Tel) 0862344751
(Email) fidelma@equateireland.ie
About EQUATE:
EQUATE is a children’s rights organisation that is advocating for a substantial change in how
primary and secondary school education is delivered in Ireland. We believe that education is
a fundamental cornerstone of our society and our schools must operate in the best interest
of all our children. We believe that our education system must be fit for purpose in the 21st
century, reflecting the diversity of our families, our communities and our
society.www.equateireland.ie

Shrap

expectationlost wrote: »

equate's solution seems to be more different private schools afaik funded by millionaires not tax payers

Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »

I can't for the life of me figure out where he's pulling that out if... This is the text from the pdf he linked.

Thank you! Thought it was missing a page or something Looks fine to me. I'm all for the campaign, personally.

Hotblack Desiato

So it doesn't in any way substantiate the rather ridiculous allegation made.

robindch

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

So it doesn't in any way substantiate the rather ridiculous allegation made.

If my life on boards has told me one useful thing, it's that primary-source documents very rarely say what people say they say.

expectationlost

Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »

That's the thing though, these aren't private schools, they are public schools funded with public money

they are private schools funded with public money

Subcomandante Marcos

expectationlost wrote: »

they are private schools funded with public money

Incorrect.

lazygal

Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »

Incorrect.

Why? All schools in receipt of state funding must have a patron and are private entities with boards of management.

Subcomandante Marcos

lazygal wrote: »

Why? All schools in receipt of state funding must have a patron and are private entities with boards of management.

Incorrect.

lazygal

Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »

Incorrect.

Why?

Subcomandante Marcos

lazygal wrote: »

Why?

National schools are funded directly by the state and jointly administered by the state, a patron body and local community representatives.

A patron can be a religious body, Educate Together committees or Gaelscoil committees.

90% of the are under the patronage of the catholic church and a good chunk of them are on lands or in building held in trust by or directly owned by the catholic church but the schools are NOT private schools. National schools cannot refuse entry based on religion but they can give preference to children based on faith. Children can be bussed into an area and given preference to local children based solely on their religion. That's ridiculous.

recedite

^ that post seems to contain an integral U-turn
You got it right in the end though.

expectationlost

Secular education campaign shut down after ethics probe https://www.irishcatholic.com/secular-education-campaign-shut-ethics-probe/ how would shutting down absolve it of any transgressions?

recedite

Interesting, that's 3 orgs that have been smitten now (Ed Equality and Amnesty too)
Maybe SIPO are going after the individuals who controlled Equate? The article doesn't say.
EE are scurrying now to form themselves into a limited company, which would protect individual members more.

Subcomandante Marcos

Michael Nugent and the two other roads from "atheist Ireland" are total uncivil prose deleted

expectationlost

Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »

Michael Nugent and the two other roads from "atheist Ireland" are total *******.

I don't entirely believe this Irish catholic article because it doesn't make sense that they would be given the option of not returning the money if it wasn't legal. Although Im guess IC has FOI'd docs to back this up.
https://www.irishcatholic.com/secular-education-campaign-shut-ethics-probe/
but their description of Equate is dead right, rich people of any stripe shouldn't be so able to steer politicians (or perhaps simply enable politicians to do the least possible and be congratulated for it.)

robindch

Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »

Michael Nugent and the two other roads from "atheist Ireland" are total uncivil prose deleted

You have been carded for incivilty.

Your next uncivil post here in A+A will earn you a red card.

Hotblack Desiato

There's always been a bad whiff off Equate.

The rules are there for everyone and we really don't want televangelist money flooding into campaigns in Ireland 1983-style.

recedite

expectationlost wrote: »

I don't entirely believe this Irish catholic article because it doesn't make sense that they would be given the option of not returning the money if it wasn't legal.

Maybe they had already spent most of it? Just easier for them to shut up shop and tell SIPO the whole operation is disbanded. SIPO could in theory go after individuals then for committing some offence or other, but why bother.

expectationlost

recedite wrote: »

Maybe they had already spent most of it? Just easier for them to shut up shop and tell SIPO the whole operation is disbanded. SIPO could in theory go after individuals then for committing some offence or other, but why bother.

...while Amnesty wants to keep going...

Atheist Ireland says One foundation itself had already disbanded before? Equate was set up, so SIPO should scrutinise the funders directly...

would like to see the complaint Athiest Ireland sent to SIPO