Pyrite concerns

iwishiknew

Hi All

I'm looking at buying a house in Meath and one of the major concerns i have is about the possibility of Pyrite infill.

Now the house doesn't really show any signs of the usual problems but the owner is trade savvy and were they of a mind to hide it, they probably could. My question is if you have a concern about a house, what is the current norm about testing? Is it normal to insist on a test and who is it that foots the bill for a test? If it had been tested, it would have to be disclosed, right? And I'm sure if the test has been done and passed, then the seller would be pointing it out. There is no talk about Pyrite in this particular estate however I know that houses built in the same era - 2005 - in the town have had issues.


Thanks for any advice,
IWIK

Michael D Not Higgins

You'd be the one who has to pay for the test. However, if there's no visible effects of pyrite more than 10 years later, you're probably in the clear. A standard survey should uncover if there's any structural effects caused by pyrite then you could do a test to confirm the presence of it.

johnnyskeleton

Its really a matter of bargaining power. Howuch do you want the house? If youre prepared to walk away, tell the vendor that you want him to have it tested and foot the bill for same or else youre not buying. Alternatively, if its your dream home, ask him for permission to test it (its a fairly invasive test) and maybe he will split the cost with you.

The default rule is caveat emptor, so the default is that if you dont check it thats your own lookout. And you would normally have to pay for it yourself, same as legal fees etc.

CreepingDeath

iwishiknew wrote: »

My question is if you have a concern about a house, what is the current norm about testing? Is it normal to insist on a test and who is it that foots the bill for a test?

I imagine it's the same as a structural survey.
The bidder pays for it, as it's buyer beware.

While the seller might be able to hide internal cracks a little easier, external cracks may be harder to hide unless it was completely rerendered, but then it would look newer/cleaner than the neighbours house.

Take a good walk around the estate looking at the other houses, see if you notice any issues there. My wifes house had cracks, but they were nothing to be concerned about for a wooden framed house (had a surveyor check it out).
But the surveyor pointed to the neighbours house and others, and suddenly I saw it was everywhere in the estate.
So while the seller might be able to hide any obvious issues, other neighbours might not.

iwishiknew

Thanks everyone....all great stuff. Really appreciate you taking the time.

RORY O CONNOR

I would suggest that if you are concerned you seek to have the house surveyed before you buy it and have it done by someone who has experience of property affected by Pyrite-an Engineer. There is a list of 39 accredited engineers on the Engineers Ireland website who are part of the panel undertaking the damage condition surveys for the Pyrite remediation scheme. Any of these guys will know what to look for and may have prior undisclosed knowledge if the development you are buying in is affected.

The symptoms of Pyrite in the stone infill are typically indicated by some of the following issues:

• Externally a higher level of structural cracking on walls than would normally be visible and expected in a recently built property are present, window frames making contact with the walls when opened, gaps developing under patio doorways and gaps appearing between the soffit of the roof and the top of the wall.

• Internally typical indicators are uneven flooring, cracks on walls and at wall junctions, distorted doorways, cracked floor tiles, floor tiles with lipping, warped plasterboard walls, doors sticking on flooring when opened, distorted doorways, cracking of the ceiling above the fireplace and warped worktops.

The visual inspection cannot determine if there is no Pyrite present. There may well be Pyrite in the stone infill which is inactive or may not be at a level to create the induced floor heave that causes the damage. If it is present it may have activated and then run its course. The only way to determine if there is active Pyrite or Pyrite levels that may cause damage in the future would be to have the stone infill sample tested. This is a rather costly process. And you should not have the pay it-the seller should.

Mink

Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »

However, if there's no visible effects of pyrite more than 10 years later, you're probably in the clear.

I would have to disagree with this as the estate I'm in was built in 2003 and damage from pyrite only became apparent in our house late last year. Ours is one of the later ones to show signs.

The cracks along wall joints (particularly external facing walls), doors not closing correctly (ie rubbing as if swollen), kitchen cupboards not closing correctly etc are dead give aways.

Michael D Not Higgins

Mink wrote: »

I would have to disagree with this as the estate I'm in was built in 2003 and damage from pyrite only became apparent in our house late last year. Ours is one of the later ones to show signs.

The cracks along wall joints (particularly external facing walls), doors not closing correctly (ie rubbing as if swollen), kitchen cupboards not closing correctly etc are dead give aways.

I'm not sure of your situation but it could be that a survey would have found evidence that wouldn't be apparent to the layman. My advice is not an absolute but more a rule of thumb. If the survey says it's alright and it's over 10 years, then it's probably fine. Not definitely fine, but probably.

RORY O CONNOR

Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »

I'm not sure of your situation but it could be that a survey would have found evidence that wouldn't be apparent to the layman. My advice is not an absolute but more a rule of thumb. If the survey says it's alright and it's over 10 years, then it's probably fine. Not definitely fine, but probably.

The current thinking among some of the engineers specializing in Pyrite issues is that any of the newer estates in the Nt Dublin, Meath, Westmeath area should be considered suspect. Pyrite affected property has is now being found in South Co Dublin and some areas of Limerick.

stanley67

Hi
I'm considering relocating to Ratoath, Co. Meath. Ive looked at houses in an estate called Steeplechase and want to know if there are any issues with regards pyrite. I'd appreciate some honest advice.

Gumbo

stanley67 wrote: »

Hi
I'm considering relocating to Ratoath, Co. Meath. Ive looked at houses in an estate called Steeplechase and want to know if there are any issues with regards pyrite. I'd appreciate some honest advice.

Are they new builds or existing builds?
If existing, ask the neighbours or make reference to it in your survey. If new builds, ask the contractor what level of SR21 compliance has he achieved and if he knows what the sulphur levels in the stone fill used.

JD1763

You should be cautious with builds on the Ashbourne/Ratoath area - a lot of the newer estates built in the boom years are at high risk of pyrite infill. There are a number of estates where information is in the public domain. However, cases are still being uncovered and people who live in these estates are not necessarily inclined to share that information on the internet.

If you are set on buying in the area, as a mentioned by Rory O'Connor above, you should insist on a core drill test performed by an accredited engineer from the list on the website. If the seller is not willing to arrange and pay for the core test - my (internet) advice would be to walk away.

It is possible for a house to have pyritic infill and display no obvious signs at all. This could be due to the nature of the slab construction - ground slab or suspended. Or the infill may simply not be active at this point but could then go active later and cause damage to the house. Length of time is not a definite indicator either - some people say 10 years but if you search pyrite and the Canadian experience some there say up to 40 years. This is why a core drill test is the only way to be certain of what you are buying.

And finally this does not just apply to mass built estates - one off builds have been found with pyrite too.

stanley67

Thanks for all the advice. It is not a completely new build.

MarkAnthony

My house was at risk, because of the time it was built, with no visible signs after 10+ years after construction. The surveyor pointed it out to me along with the fact that there were no visible signs. However if I wanted to be certain an additional test would have to be done - he wasn't trying to sell this as there was no way the sellers would have consented as it's destructive - at the cost of about 3K.

stanley67

So nobody knows anything about pyrite in steeplechase, ratoath, co meath exactly? or heard anything. many house in nearby asbourne in the same period seem to have pyrite.

athtrasna

stanley67 wrote: »

So nobody knows anything about pyrite in steeplechase, ratoath, co meath exactly? or heard anything. many house in nearby asbourne in the same period seem to have pyrite.

You're posting an area specific question in a national forum. Chances of you getting an answer weren't high from the start.

psheaser

Post boom estates surronding blackpool in Cork have been notorious for this.

April 73

stanley67 wrote: »

So nobody knows anything about pyrite in steeplechase, ratoath, co meath exactly? or heard anything. many house in nearby asbourne in the same period seem to have pyrite.

I live in the area & I have never heard of pyrite issues in Steeplechase. Other houses were built here around the same time (mid-00s) and I haven't heard of pyrite in any of those either (different builders). I'll ask around for you though.
PM me if you want any info on the area.

April 73

athtrasna wrote: »

You're posting an area specific question in a national forum. Chances of you getting an answer weren't high from the start.

Until I read the thread :-)

stanley67

Tks April I'd very much appreciate that

Mink

You can have several houses in one estate with pyrite and then the next few houses beside them don't have it (foundation gotten from a different quarry).

So one of the best ways to check is to have a look at the estate and see if the pyrite remedial work is getting done on any houses. But then the house you're interested in might not even have it.

There's a good few houses in my estate which have either had it remedied or they are awaiting approval from Pyrite Board. My side of the cul de sac all have pyrite but the builders must have switched quarry for the other side of the turning circle because they don't have any issues.

stanley67

was this in ratoath mink?

ola23

Hi All

Looking for a house in Stepaside/Leopardstown/ Carrickmines/ Sandyford, has anyone heard about any purite affected houses there? Thank you