Fords wet belt

canhefixit

On a mk4 mondeo im not due a belt change yet but I see there is a chain that can be placed in instead of another wet belt has anyone went down this root? Be handy as id say they will last the life of the engine or even massive milage before needing change

Also is there a handy way to inspect this belts condition anyway?
Cheers

canhefixit

Anyone?

CJhaughey

Its not really inspectable, once you have the engine stripped down that far you may as well replace it.
The next wet belt will do another 100k miles or so before needing replacement.
AFAIK the part comes as a cassette unit that you simply install but you are supposed to have the special Ford locking pins to do the job.
If you are getting close to the time/mileage for replacement then the advice is to just do it at the same time as the main cambelt.
Not worth taking chances with that belt as if it breaks or more likely sheds teeth the engine will be seized.
Have a look on youtube, plenty of videos about the belt and the problems that it can cause.

canhefixit

Yeah I have done a good bit of research and watched many clips online just to have a heads up what it entails as I would like to do the job myself

I seen online there is a chain now you can replace the wet belt for I was just wondering if that conversion would be a god one or not

Does the wet belt need to be timed to the pump some way? I will use the locking tools for the crank and cams but wasnt aware of the bottom end needing to be timed at all

Im a good bit of needing it done yet but just want to be well prepared

canhefixit

Yeah I have done a good bit of research and watched many clips online just to have a heads up what it entails as I would like to do the job myself

I seen online there is a chain now you can replace the wet belt for I was just wondering if that conversion would be a god one or not

Does the wet belt need to be timed to the pump some way? I will use the locking tools for the crank and cams but wasnt aware of the bottom end needing to be timed at all

Im a good bit of needing it done yet but just want to be well prepared

CJhaughey

I am not sure that chain cassette is still available any longer? I think they are all wet belt now.
What mileage is on yours now? Mk4 started in 07 so the early ones must be getting close at this stage.
Ford say 125k miles or 10 years but I have heard of belts failing around the 100k mile mark.
I wouldn't take a chance on those belts TBH.
Better early than late anyway!

martyc5674

If your car was built before oct 07 it should have a chain.
One way of checking without stripping is the colour of the tensioner bolt.
It's around the back of the engine... Behind crank pulley.
Black tensioner bolt is chain silver is belt.
The chain cassette setup is a straight swap, not sure how available they are but they will be more expensive plus a belt should buy you another 100k miles.
Marty.

canhefixit

Mine is an 09 with 80k on the clock, i inspected the cam belt when serviced last and it was still like new but yeah i wouldnt take any chances and will get them changed well in advance

The chains i came across on ebay through another forum, i was asking a mechanic about them he had never fitted the chain instead of the belt but siad to get it directly off ford as at least your buying such an important part and you know its genuine and not thrown together in china lol

From the looks of it its a straight forward cam belt change, locking the timing etc and then replacing the wet belt which dosent seem to be timed (well i havent found that out for defo yet it might be timed)

The car has been well serviced with the correct grade ford oil and im very curious to see how the wet belts condition is fingers crossed its in as good as condition as the cam belt!

canhefixit

Mine is an 09 with 80k on the clock, i inspected the cam belt when serviced last and it was still like new but yeah i wouldnt take any chances and will get them changed well in advance

The chains i came across on ebay through another forum, i was asking a mechanic about them he had never fitted the chain instead of the belt but siad to get it directly off ford as at least your buying such an important part and you know its genuine and not thrown together in china lol

From the looks of it its a straight forward cam belt change, locking the timing etc and then replacing the wet belt which dosent seem to be timed (well i havent found that out for defo yet it might be timed)

The car has been well serviced with the correct grade ford oil and im very curious to see how the wet belts condition is fingers crossed its in as good as condition as the cam belt!

enumbers

The timing on the wet belt is as critical as any other part of the timing setup has to be spot on, this is a fairly involved task if you are not fairly competent

canhefixit

enumbers wrote: »

The timing on the wet belt is as critical as any other part of the timing setup has to be spot on, this is a fairly involved task if you are not fairly competent

Is there a separate timing locking tool needed for the job?

Ive done a few timing belt changes so having all the right info to hand id be confident enough taking it on tbh

What is in involved in the wet belt change?

martyc5674

Like yourself..ive done a few regular belts...looked at doing this one then decided against it.... I put booking it in on the long finger as it aint cheap...belt snapped a few weeks back...ill not have much change out of 2K to get a second hand engine bought and fitted.


Theres a considerable amount of stripping to be done and the parts alone are in excess of 300(theres a seal to be replaced...gaskets etc)
The diesel pump doesn't have to be timed to the crank as its common rail, but obviously the cam has to be timed in relation to the crank if you fiddle with either/both.(so same tools youd need doing top belt...think theres a special pullers required too for one of the pulleys on the diesel pump)
As I said I looked into it and by the time youd have the timing tools bought...spent a whole weekend pulling and dragging youd do well to save 100 quid and if you get it wrong engine is mush like my one!
Marty

canhefixit

I get what ya mean and yeah i see it is a fairly big job with having to strip quite abit although I actually want to do it tbh curiousity/satisfation kind of thing, ive priced the job in a few places and yeah its pricey but not to bed considering the work needs doing

I have most of the tools needed and have plenty of time to get whatever else, wouldnt mind getting my hands on a good step by step guide though

canhefixit

I get what ya mean and yeah i see it is a fairly big job with having to strip quite abit although I actually want to do it tbh curiousity/satisfation kind of thing, ive priced the job in a few places and yeah its pricey but not to bed considering the work needs doing

I have most of the tools needed and have plenty of time to get whatever else, wouldnt mind getting my hands on a good step by step guide though

martyc5674

Robbed this from an old thread...at least its a parts list to work off.(no doubt prices have changed and maybe for the better)

Upper timing belt kit €97.45 ex VAT retail.
Lower timing belt kit (wet belt) €157.25 ex VAT retail.
Lower timing cover gasket €20.86 ex VAT retail.
Crankshaft oil seal €24.96 ex VAT retail.
Fuel pump seal €36.55 ex VAT retail.

Thats over 400€

If you have timing kit and understand what your doing and arent under time pressure you should give it a go for sure.
I wish now id done mine!
Marty.

canhefixit

Cheers for that info

Yeah some of those prices are crazy, i actually priced a main dealer about a month ago out of interest and they priced me €650 which i didnt think was too bad in fairness being a main stealer lol

Yeah I have timing tools and no pannick to get it back on the road will just take my time and do it over a weekend, just need the satisfaction to get it done now and drive er on!

canhefixit

Cheers for that info

Yeah some of those prices are crazy, i actually priced a main dealer about a month ago out of interest and they priced me €650 which i didnt think was too bad in fairness being a main stealer lol

Yeah I have timing tools and no pannick to get it back on the road will just take my time and do it over a weekend, just need the satisfaction to get it done now and drive er on!

martyc5674

650 is very good even from an indy its good.
Marty.

canhefixit

Thats was a special price ford were doing at the time, i think it was 800 normally

for 650 i would even consider letting ford do it for peace of mind and to get it put in the book but then weres the satisfaction in that lol

canhefixit

Thats was a special price ford were doing at the time, i think it was 800 normally

for 650 i would even consider letting ford do it for peace of mind and to get it put in the book but then weres the satisfaction in that lol

canhefixit

Got my hands on the haynes manuel for this jobs and its bloody useless!

Anyone know of any better guides online maybe?

canhefixit

Got my hands on the haynes manuel for this jobs and its bloody useless!

Anyone know of any better guides online maybe?

shietpilot

This is a fairly interesting video to watch for you. The guy goes into mentioning what parts are needed to do a chain conversion. Might be useful

Part numbers:

martyc5674

I stripped down my engine last night.
4 bent valves... Pistons are marked but id say would be fine to go again.
Stripped the whole lot anyway.

On the wetbelt removal it's all straightforward with the engine out.. The crank pulley was real tight.. My breaker bar was flexing like mad!... Would have been tricky in the car.
There are 2 pulleys on the fuel pump.. The outer one I gave a light tap and it popped off.. Wouldn't be the easiest pulley put a regular puller on.
The inside one what I did was to get it off was put the outer pulley back on.. But backwards using 2 of the three nuts,with a nut in the centre between it and the shaft.. Squeezed up the 2 bolts and it popped off(basically I made a puller out of the outer pulley..worked a treat)
The cam pulley was easy mount a small puller on.
I really wonder though if it's necessary to replace the pulleys with the belt.. It seems ridiculous and adds to the workload. Not sure if the tensioner could be bought seperately.. Or if it wears anyway.
I found on some website where a guy gave the spec of the belt used and recommended just changing it and not the pulleys.
Maybe he's got a point?
Honestly I don't think you'd need a guide...just time and patience. The only place you can go very wrong is the timing but if you lock it in the right position you'll be fine.
If you need any spares I'm your man!
Marty.

shietpilot

martyc5674 wrote: »

I stripped down my engine last night.
4 bent valves... Pistons are marked but id say would be fine to go again.
Stripped the whole lot anyway.

On the wetbelt removal it's all straightforward with the engine out.. The crank pulley was real tight.. My breaker bar was flexing like mad!... Would have been tricky in the car.
There are 2 pulleys on the fuel pump.. The outer one I gave a light tap and it popped off.. Wouldn't be the easiest pulley put a regular puller on.
The inside one what I did was to get it off was put the outer pulley back on.. But backwards using 2 of the three nuts,with a nut in the centre between it and the shaft.. Squeezed up the 2 bolts and it popped off(basically I made a puller out of the outer pulley..worked a treat)
The cam pulley was easy mount a small puller on.
I really wonder though if it's necessary to replace the pulleys with the belt.. It seems ridiculous and adds to the workload. Not sure if the tensioner could be bought seperately.. Or if it wears anyway.
I found on some website where a guy gave the spec of the belt used and recommended just changing it and not the pulleys.
Maybe he's got a point?
Honestly I don't think you'd need a guide...just time and patience. The only place you can go very wrong is the timing but if you lock it in the right position you'll be fine.
If you need any spares I'm your man!
Marty.

I'll buy a cam cover bolt washer from you :pac:

canhefixit

martyc5674 wrote: »

I stripped down my engine last night.
4 bent valves... Pistons are marked but id say would be fine to go again.
Stripped the whole lot anyway.

On the wetbelt removal it's all straightforward with the engine out.. The crank pulley was real tight.. My breaker bar was flexing like mad!... Would have been tricky in the car.
There are 2 pulleys on the fuel pump.. The outer one I gave a light tap and it popped off.. Wouldn't be the easiest pulley put a regular puller on.
The inside one what I did was to get it off was put the outer pulley back on.. But backwards using 2 of the three nuts,with a nut in the centre between it and the shaft.. Squeezed up the 2 bolts and it popped off(basically I made a puller out of the outer pulley..worked a treat)
The cam pulley was easy mount a small puller on.
I really wonder though if it's necessary to replace the pulleys with the belt.. It seems ridiculous and adds to the workload. Not sure if the tensioner could be bought seperately.. Or if it wears anyway.
I found on some website where a guy gave the spec of the belt used and recommended just changing it and not the pulleys.
Maybe he's got a point?
Honestly I don't think you'd need a guide...just time and patience. The only place you can go very wrong is the timing but if you lock it in the right position you'll be fine.
If you need any spares I'm your man!
Marty.

ah i was hoping i was gonna be able to do it with the engine in maybe lower it abit off a mount, ive a proper big breaker bar hopfully can get enough swing at it to break it open

I use your advise on removing the pulley using the other pulley bit of improvising there!

Im considering changing it to a chain set up for peace of mind and not be playing russian roulette as it gets closer to a change

Im just going to attack it like any other timing belt change i think, lock the timing as usual then work away from there

What I just dont want to happen is get half way in and need a special tool that would just make my day completely!

On one video a guy says you need a special tool to insert new crank seal to centre it right is this really needed? Ive replaced a few of these seals without a prob but maybe on this wet belt set up its different

cheers

shietpilot

canhefixit wrote: »

On one video a guy says you need a special tool to insert new crank seal to centre it right is this really needed? Ive replaced a few of these seals without a prob but maybe on this wet belt set up its different

You will need the timing cover alignment tool to install the seal properly.

I found all the special tools you need for the job here:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/timing-chain-drive-diesel-engines/dp/B01AURLDVM/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1455038173&sr=8-2&keywords=303-652%2F21-230

30 gbp and you get everything you need for the job! The locking tools, timing cover alignment tool, etc!

canhefixit

shietpilot wrote: »

You will need the timing cover alignment tool to install the seal properly.

I found all the special tools you need for the job here:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/timing-chain-drive-diesel-engines/dp/B01AURLDVM/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1455038173&sr=8-2&keywords=303-652%2F21-230

30 gbp and you get everything you need for the job! The locking tools, timing cover alignment tool, etc!

Cheers for that!

Yeah i have came across your clips you shown makes interesting viewing indeed!

Have you changed one yourself?

shietpilot

canhefixit wrote: »

Cheers for that!

Yeah i have came across your clips you shown makes interesting viewing indeed!

Have you changed one yourself?

No, I am blessed to have a 2007-built Focus with a chain luckily

canhefixit

shietpilot wrote: »

No, I am blessed to have a 2007-built Focus with a chain luckily

Ah i dont care tbh i bought it knowing it had the belt i opted for it over the 2.0 and I would tackle it myself anyway, big plus if i can get the chain conversion then it will more than likely last the life of the engine just straight forward TB changes after that

shietpilot

canhefixit wrote: »

Ah i dont care tbh i bought it knowing it had the belt i opted for it over the 2.0 and I would tackle it myself anyway, big plus if i can get the chain conversion then it will more than likely last the life of the engine just straight forward TB changes after that

Definitely go for the chain. It might cost a bit more but it's a once off job forever. The chains are meant to last the life of the engine.