Suckler focus ifj

blue5000

Had a quick look at this. They have an interesting article on the high merit (5 star) vs low merit (3 star) maternal heifers. Even though according to icbf stats they have a difference of €67, the actual difference isn't that huge, only 7kg difference at weaning, and when they calculate out for the main maternal traits there is €36 difference.

It is still early days, it's going to run for 5 lactations, but after 2 lactations you'd be expecting a bigger gap.

Good article too on the high cw animals too, they might not be as bad for the factories as we have been led to believe, surprise surprise.

Kovu

One bit I thought interesting was that the dairy X animals needed more feeding in the third trimester of pregnancy onwards despite being of lower liveweight.

I'm still not convinced that a dairy X cow will produce calves to the same quality. Sure, it'll be a grand average calf and will take less feeding. But I'd rather a 1k calf with €100 worth of feeding in him than a €800 calf.

Bullocks

I only had a quick look on the phone so didn't get too much info .
On the heavy carcasses, I wonder how many animals they need under a certain weight to fulfill the prime cut sales and how many go towards processing anyhow ?
And are the cuts that much bigger than they need really , any butchers on the IFA livestock committee I wonder

croot

blue5000 wrote: »

Had a quick look at this. They have an interesting article on the high merit (5 star) vs low merit (3 star) maternal heifers. Even though according to icbf stats they have a difference of €67, the actual difference isn't that huge, only 7kg difference at weaning, and when they calculate out for the main maternal traits there is €36 difference.

It is still early days, it's going to run for 5 lactations, but after 2 lactations you'd be expecting a bigger gap.

Good article too on the high cw animals too, they might not be as bad for the factories as we have been led to believe, surprise surprise.

I was at the open day when they were just setting this up. To look at them the only difference between low merit heifers and the high ones was a collar round the neck identified the high ones. Certainly if buying in the mart I'd have been happy with any of them for breeding purposes if I didn't have the figures.

I think the derrypatrick herd is a great resource and the ability to carry out trials like this will give good information on the future direction of suckler farming either positive or negative.

rangler1

Bullocks wrote: »

I only had a quick look on the phone so didn't get too much info .
On the heavy carcasses, I wonder how many animals they need under a certain weight to fulfill the prime cut sales and how many go towards processing anyhow ?
And are the cuts that much bigger than they need really , any butchers on the IFA livestock committee I wonder

It's a pity that factories don't show suppliers around their factories and farmers could see how important working to a specification is.
Our factory brought our group around and it became obvious very quickly why they had weight limits for lambs.......it's easier with sheep, we just keep more and sell them lighter

Bullocks

rangler1 wrote: »

It's a pity that factories don't show suppliers around their factories and farmers could see how important working to a specification is.
Our factory brought our group around and it became obvious very quickly why they had weight limits for lambs.......it's easier with sheep, we just keep more and sell them lighter

I understand that the factories have to be able to sell the cuts too .
It's probably easier to get lambs the right fat cover at smaller weights than a fine charlaois /limo bull but we would be aswell changing to more traditional breeds again if they will kill out at a better size and fat score than the continentals .

rangler1

Bullocks wrote: »

I understand that the factories have to be able to sell the cuts too .
It's probably easier to get lambs the right fat cover at smaller weights than a fine charlaois /limo bull but we would be aswell changing to more traditional breeds again if they will kill out at a better size and fat score than the continentals .

The day we were in the factory there was 40000 trays of chops filled......not much time there for cutting a bit off the ends of the big chops

patsy_mccabe

I don't understand the point of this whole exercise. A trial to verify what they know to be already true. ICBF data is gathered from Irish farms, so have a trial on one farm, to verify that the data from a whole lot of other farms is reliable. Seems pointless.
A bit like taking a measuring tape to check a ruler.

ganmo

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

I don't understand the point of this whole exercise. A trial to verify what they know to be already true. ICBF data is gathered from Irish farms, so have a trial on one farm, to verify that the data from a whole lot of other farms is reliable. Seems pointless.
A bit like taking a measuring tape to check a ruler.

Because there are lots of farmers that still need convincing. I'd say it's more of a demonstration than research.

We would have some lambs that wouldn't be factory at the same weights as ranglers due to breed

Dozer1

I'm not fully clued in to the trial but were all of the cows genotyped before they were bought?
otherwise is it not based on the data that was provided by ICBF which could have been flaky to say the least?

croot

Dozer1 wrote: »

I'm not fully clued in to the trial but were all of the cows genotyped before they were bought?
otherwise is it not based on the data that was provided by ICBF which could have been flaky to say the least?

I don't think they were genotyped at the start. From memory they identified the heifers from icbf figures and then bought directly from the farmers. Genotyping came in as an option at the end of that year for the bdp scheme.

Bullocks

rangler1 wrote: »

The day we were in the factory there was 40000 trays of chops filled......not much time there for cutting a bit off the ends of the big chops

I'm sure they wouldn't have time for it alright , and I wouldn't expect it . But with beef I'm wondering how much goes into processing and is this overweight thing a bit of an excuse

rangler1

Bullocks wrote: »

I'm sure they wouldn't have time for it alright , and I wouldn't expect it . But with beef I'm wondering how much goes into processing and is this overweight thing a bit of an excuse

You'll sell a lot more steaks if you can give three instead of two for €25 for a kilo, although the four lamb chops on the tray would be an awful lot cheaper

rushvalley

croot wrote: »

I don't think they were genotyped at the start. From memory they identified the heifers from icbf figures and then bought directly from the farmers. Genotyping came in as an option at the end of that year for the bdp scheme.

They weighed the heifers after they were weaned. We had two heifers weighed here for it but never heard anything back about it.

blue5000

Kovu wrote: »

One bit I thought interesting was that the dairy X animals needed more feeding in the third trimester of pregnancy onwards despite being of lower liveweight.

I'm still not convinced that a dairy X cow will produce calves to the same quality. Sure, it'll be a grand average calf and will take less feeding. But I'd rather a 1k calf with €100 worth of feeding in him than a €800 calf.

I think the message is that the dairy x produce more milk, and need energy to do it. If they went straight to grass after calving they should be ok. The extra milk should give a heavier weanling, hopefully better fat cover which would make it easier finish a bull u16 months. I suppose a lot depends on what market you are aiming for, export type weanling, or finishing them yourself.