Paternity leave could be in place by September

BigJackC

THE GOVERNMENT HAS given the green light to proposals for the introduction of paternity leave.

Two weeks of paid leave could be in place by September 2016 if the measures are approved.

A memo was brought to cabinet on the proposals today.

A statement from the Department of Justice detailed that the two weeks of paternity benefit will be provided as a social welfare payment. Private sector companies will not be obliged to pay full pay, but may do so as is the often the case with maternity leave.

Minister for Justice and Equality Frances Fitzgerald said the introduction of the benefit and leave “will have a positive effect on gender equality”.

Evidence shows that fathers want to spend time caring for and being with their children and families. Currently fathers use other existing leave arrangements to take time off around the birth of their child to support their families“.

http://www.thejournal.ie/paternity-leave-ireland-2-2568730-Jan2016/

A welcome development. Two weeks isn't an awful lot, but it's a start. The unintended consequence of maternity leave is that women might get passed over for jobs if the employer thinks that they would have to pay for maternity leave down the road. This is illegally discriminatory, but would be largely negated if the leave could be shared. In Sweden, for example, they allow parents two months off each and then a further year to be shared however they decide.

M Anonymous

The Swedish system sounds amazing.

How many families share it 50/50 do you know, compared to families where one person takes it all.

Also anyone know what happens in situations maybe where they've split and the parents can't agree on how it is to be shared

I don't think paternity leave will get employers looking more benignly on maternity leave. I'd suspect many if them would happily give a father 2 weeks off, but 6 months for a mother is a huge burden.

As for the need, I can fully understand why there would be a difference, there are issues like recovering, recovering from ceseareans, breast feeding etc. that simply do not affect men.

It's a great step forward, but until an unmarried father has an automatic right to access to his children, then it may well prove useless for a lot of men.

BigJackC

M Anonymous wrote: »

How many families share it 50/50 do you know, compared to families where one person takes it all.

In 2014, the dad took up 25% of the total paternity leave time used.

https://sweden.se/quickfact/parental-leave/

thattequilagirl

Brilliant move, although two weeks isn't a lot, it's definitely a step in the right direction. Fathers deserve the time to bond with their babies, and mothers need the support.

thattequilagirl

thattequilagirl wrote: »

Brilliant move, although two weeks isn't a lot, it's definitely a step in the right direction. Fathers deserve the time to bond with their babies, and mothers need the support.

But these were always available, just as holidays or unpaid.

It's not like bonding and support start now.

SeaFields

Heard a guy talking about this the other day on the radio. Came upon it late so not sure who. However he was saying it can be taken within 26 weeks of the child being born. Anyone hear anything further on this aspect ? As it stands I'm due to miss out by a few weeks unless this 26 week thing applies.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

But these were always available, just as holidays or unpaid.

Not for everyone they weren't.

A lot of companies require you to book your holidays in advance, and so you book them based on the due date of your baby, but then you take the risk of your partner going two weeks over, and missing everything, or going two weeks early and missing the first couple of weeks.

There are also many jobs that only allow you to take AL at specific times so you may not be able to take any leave at all.

And unfortunately, most companies I've worked in (from small to multi national) don't allow unpaid leave.

AnonoBoy

If it applies retroactively I've got a lot of old girlfriends and abandoned children to get in touch with so I can have me a holiday!

andekwarhola

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It's a great step forward, but until an unmarried father has an automatic right to access to his children, then it may well prove useless for a lot of men.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/landmark-family-law-changes-to-see-single-fathers-to-get-custody-rights-376953.html

andekwarhola

andekwarhola wrote: »

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/landmark-family-law-changes-to-see-single-fathers-to-get-custody-rights-376953.html

Unmarried fathers automatically become guardians if they live for 12 months with the child’s mother, including three months following a child’s birth. The change is not retrospective;

not good enough

seamus

Deleted User wrote: »

not good enough

No, but my understanding is that making it retrospective would result in lots of complications, such as cases where another partner has been given guardianship, or where guardianship has been explicitly denied on safety grounds, etc.

It's not good enough, but I certainly agree with the reasoning for it. More work is needed on that issue, but they had to get this bill in before the election so they had something to show.

IrishCule

Why do they have to have lived with the mother for 12 months to become a Guardian? What is this nonsense?

Arbiter of Good Taste

SeaFields wrote: »

Heard a guy talking about this the other day on the radio. Came upon it late so not sure who. However he was saying it can be taken within 26 weeks of the child being born. Anyone hear anything further on this aspect ? As it stands I'm due to miss out by a few weeks unless this 26 week thing applies.

I think the 26 weeks is a given. The question you want to ask though is whether the entitlement to take paternity leave up to 26 weeks after the child is born applies only to children born after the effective date in September or whether the child only has to be less than 26 weeks when the legislation comes into play.

This is unclear

So, if the legislation only affects children born after the effective date, then it wont impact you.

seamus

IrishCule wrote: »

Why do they have to have lived with the mother for 12 months to become a Guardian? What is this nonsense?

There's a difference between "guardian" and "parent".

If you are a guardian of a child in Ireland, you have a duty to maintain and properly care for the child and you have a right to make decisions about the child's religious and secular education, health requirements and general welfare.

That doesn't mean you have to have been with the mother for this time period to become the guardian, it's just not given to you by default.

The purpose of this clause is to protect partners when a relationship breaks down after the child has been born, by ensuring that the partner gets an ongoing say in the raising of their child.

Edit:
Reading it specifically, you don't need to have lived with the mother before the child is born. It includes any consecutive 12 month period, provided that at least 3 of those months the child has been around.

andekwarhola

[Deleted User] wrote: »

not good enough

I agree but I assume, as pointed out by others, it could be a veritable sh!tstorm (even a legal one) trying to retroactively apply this to existing family setups.

SEPT 23 1989

Can't see it happening for blokes working in very small companies where there is little or no cover for them

snickerpuss

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

Can't see it happening for blokes working in very small companies where there is little or no cover for them

Is it not statutory though?

My name is URL

snickerpuss wrote: »

Is it not statutory though?

It will be but it's not mandatory like!

He's right... a lot of men will simply forego it because they can't be covered and they're not gonna upset the apple tart for the sake of 2 weeks off.

seamus

My name is URL wrote: »

It will be but it's not mandatory like!

He's right... a lot of men will simply forego it because they can't be covered and they're not gonna upset the apple tart for the sake of 2 weeks off.

I'm not sure how much this will be an issue tbh. Certainly in the past there would be jokes and pisstaking, but any man who's become a father in the last 20 years will know what it's like and it's become fairly standard to take 2-4 weeks annual leave for new fathers.

So with the exception of a few small workplaces run by bullies, there won't really be any stigma or resistance to this.

recylingbin

I think I'll wait until March to impregnate just to be sure.

thattequilagirl

seamus wrote: »

I'm not sure how much this will be an issue tbh. Certainly in the past there would be jokes and pisstaking, but any man who's become a father in the last 20 years will know what it's like and it's become fairly standard to take 2-4 weeks annual leave for new fathers.

So with the exception of a few small workplaces run by bullies, there won't really be any stigma or resistance to this.

Yeah, my mother is a recently retired teacher and she noticed during the recession that fathers became much more involved in childcare, school runs and parent teacher meetings.

It's not too much of a stretch that paternity leave would be taken up.

After all, it's not so much about the mother or father as it is about doing what's best for the baby.

Mushy

My favourite topic, just starting a thesis on this.

Should be good, should be easy to implement. Hopefully the stigma associated won't show up, and that it moves towards a shared leave model.

seamus

seamus wrote: »

So with the exception of a few small workplaces run by bullies, there won't really be any stigma or resistance to this.

It's not "bullying" to observe that in small companies maternity leave can be enormously difficult and disruptive. We have the second longest paid leave in the world. So while obviously I think it should be extended to fathers, on the basis of equality, I think it should be in lieu of maternity leave, as in if a father wants a month off, the mothers leave should be reduced to 5 months etc.

meeeeh

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

Can't see it happening for blokes working in very small companies where there is little or no cover for them

As an employer in a small company I would find it pretty desperate if we couldn't manage without someone for two weeks. What about people getting injured or even just going on holidays? If someone is so important you can't survive without them for two weeks then you are doing something wrong.

meeeeh

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It's not "bullying" to observe that in small companies maternity leave can be enormously difficult and disruptive. We have the second longest paid leave in the world.

Seriously? Where did you get that nonsense.

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2012/05/22/maternity-leaves-around-the-world_n_1536120.html

meeeeh

meeeeh wrote: »

Seriously? Where did you get that nonsense.

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2012/05/22/maternity-leaves-around-the-world_n_1536120.html

NY Times...

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/21/upshot/obama-says-family-leave-is-an-economic-necessity-not-just-a-womens-issue.html?rref=upshot&abt=0002&abg=0&_r=0

meeeeh

[Deleted User] wrote: »

NY Times...

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/21/upshot/obama-says-family-leave-is-an-economic-necessity-not-just-a-womens-issue.html?rref=upshot&abt=0002&abg=0&_r=0

Those might be minimums of how much women are entitled too but not total paid maternity/paternity leave parents are entitled to. Frankly I don't know what the stats mean but a lot of central Europe has about a year of paid maternity. I know that in Slovenia it's a year with 80% of your wages paid by the state and that can be extended.

seamus

Deleted User wrote: »

It's not "bullying" to observe that in small companies maternity leave can be enormously difficult and disruptive.

No, but the kind of pathetic managers who would make things difficult for employees who take maternity or paternity leave, are bullies.

Wichita Lineman

Great for those about to be fathers, a bit too late for a lot of the population. Maybe they'll back date it :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Ken.

Mod-Please stay on topic. Thank you. Off topic posts removed.