New connection: any reliable ISPs around?

stillalive88

Hello everyone.

I have, for the first time, need for an ACTUAL broadband connection. With actual I mean I have survived for 2 years on simple 10euro/month USB dongles but now I am going to need a real connection to work from home at a decent speed.

I notice there are absurdly fast connection (theoretically) on the market and abysmal ratings and reviews to all ISPs, everywhere in Ireland, with a special remark on bad customer service.

I have had that kind of experience in another country and would like to avoid it. The classic 45 to 70 minutes of life wasted on customer service, to get an "yeah we'll fix it" and then nothing happens. Rinse and repeat. Don't want any of that again, just need a service that works.

So what's the situation here, are all ISPs just selling unreliable broadband for an absurdly expensive 50 euro/month? I am hardly finding any decent prices, I'd be content with 10-20 mbps, RELIABLE, for something like a reasonable 30 euro but I only see offers of "UP TO" 100-360mps starting from 45€/month, from ISPs that have almost only bad ratings on every website. I know most people rating are the ones having the problem but this just looks too bad.

Contracts are for 18 months and from what I understand you're on direct debit always so once you're in, you're ****ed and you have nothing to fight back with if any problem should arise. I'm reading way too many "customer service just told me they'll fix it in a week then nothing happened".

Any good recommendation on ways to face this? I just need a reliable connection and don't want to waste time. Is this possible? Is there any way you can defend yourself against frauds and scams?

Should I just stay on the dongle? It's slow but inexpensive and I never had to deal with any customer service so far so I was fine.

P.s.: At least here you have guides and FAQs so I know I'll be able to tweak some settings by myself, but seriously, what I saw in the past I don't want to see again.

ED E

ISPs outside Scandinavia don't get good reviews and people only bother to review when they're pissed so websites show a unfair sample.

The hierarchy is:

1. Virgin, some areas, pretty much always get the speed listed (244 on a 240 package), expensive
2. All the fixed line providers, always "Up to" based on distance from exchange/cabinet, €40/mo and up.
3. Mobile: Its not broadband, its midband, but if you arent willing to spend more you can live with it.

stillalive88

So basically it's a lottery, if you're in a good position you're fine, otherwise you're in trouble?

Is there any way to defend yourself from fraud?

I seemed to read that if you switch to another company you don't have to pay cancellation fees, is that true? I know you can get out of the contract in the first 14 days but that isn't much to work with to test the reliability of a service...

Avada

stillalive88 wrote: »

So basically it's a lottery, if you're in a good position you're fine, otherwise you're in trouble?

Is there any way to defend yourself from fraud?

I seemed to read that if you switch to another company you don't have to pay cancellation fees, is that true? I know you can get out of the contract in the first 14 days but that isn't much to work with to test the reliability of a service...

Contracts are contracts. You are protected by distance selling regulations if you order over the phone or online (so you get your 14 day cooling off). You dont get that protection if you buy in store. Always buy over the phone, imo, as the calls are recorded so you have some comeback. DON'T buy from door-to-door sale, you have a very high chance of getting screwed.

Once you get passed the 14 days, you are in a contract and will be penalised if you cancel, even if you move to a new provider. That is unless you are released from your contract.

Pretty much all fixed line providers have the same issue with fault repair, with the exception of virgin. OpenEir's service level agreement is to repair a fault within 5 working days of receiving it. That means that you could be waiting up to 8 working days from reporting it to your provider until it is fixed (although in urban areas it is usually quicker). Virgin usually fix faults quicker than that as they own their own network and don't have the same obligations as OpenEir.

ED E

How to not get scammed? Read what you're signing up to. Then pay the bill. Simples.

stillalive88

ED E wrote: »

How to not get scammed? Read what you're signing up to. Then pay the bill. Simples.

Well, none of them even guarantee any minimal level of service in their contracts. You guarantee everything and they declare themselves not liable for ANYTHING a mind could possibly think of. This is ridicolous.


What do you guys think of contractless broadband? I seem to understand Eir has a contractless option for business, maybe that could make sense?

ED E

stillalive88 wrote: »

Well, none of them even guarantee any minimal level of service

Oh they do. Its called an SLA. You can get them, 24hr, 8hr, 4hr even sometimes 1hr. But you pay for it. Having techs on call costs money.

Nobody guarantees wifi.

Magnet do contractless broadband but you pay the install fee(€100-150). Thats why you have a 12-18 month contract, it pays the installation fees.

stillalive88

ED E wrote: »

Oh they do. Its called an SLA. You can get them, 24hr, 8hr, 4hr even sometimes 1hr. But you pay for it. Having techs on call costs money.

Nobody guarantees wifi.

Magnet do contractless broadband but you pay the install fee(€100-150). Thats why you have a 12-18 month contract, it pays the installation fees.

Yeah but the SERVICE, as in the CONNECTION and not the repair, is not guaranteed anytime, anywhere, in any part of the terms and service. You pay for a service of which not a single 1% is guaranteed in any possible way.

So you sell me 360mb, of which not 1mb is guaranteed at any time. You can give me 0.000mb all year, and it's completely fine.

Nothing to do with techs but with their own line. I am reading way too many story from isolated people that get ignored and left with no service.

It's kind of astonishing... I hope I don't end up being one of them but come on. You pay for a bill, must be a way to get the service or at least get the money back if it doesn't work. This last part is not guaranteed...

ED E

Oh you can get guaranteed bandwidth, its called a leased line.

stillalive88

ED E wrote: »

Oh you can get guaranteed bandwidth, its called a leased line.

Tell me more? This is interesting, I hope the prices are not too insane. What keywords should I search for?

I need it for business so I cannot allow myself to argue with some customer service for 2-3 weeks while being ripped off... although, as said again and again I might just sign up and maybe all goes peachy

ED E

Oh you really wouldnt like the prices.

jca

If you told us where you live, town, city, rural etc maybe if one of us lived near you we could help. I live in a town and have had great service from my eir fixed line fttc BB. My download is always 40- 50 mb/s upload is 17-19 mb/s I'm changing to Vodafone BB only for €40 per month as eir are wanting to increase my BB by another €2 bringing it to €55 per month which I feel is too expensive.

stillalive88

jca wrote: »

If you told us where you live, town, city, rural etc maybe if one of us lived near you we could help. I live in a town and have had great service from my eir fixed line fttc BB. My download is always 40- 50 mb/s upload is 17-19 mb/s I'm changing to Vodafone BB only for €40 per month as eir are wanting to increase my BB by another €2 bringing it to €55 per month which I feel is too expensive.

I'm in Cork, slightly outside of the city center. Theoretically all should be good but I have seen bad reviews from people in town as well. Sometimes it seems some positions are just unlucky and the companies don't care about fixing the problem.

I guess my only defense are those 14 (or was it 10?) days when you can cancel the contract at the start if it works like crap. 55 euro per month is bleeding money. At the moment I manage with 10. I would gladly pay 20 for something twice as good and be more than content with that, but there are no options like that. It's either 2mb or 360 it seems...

godskitchen

A leased line will cost you between €500 and pick a number above €10000 per month.

Best of luck getting what you want.

jca

stillalive88 wrote: »

I'm in Cork, slightly outside of the city center. Theoretically all should be good but I have seen bad reviews from people in town as well. Sometimes it seems some positions are just unlucky and the companies don't care about fixing the problem.

I guess my only defense are those 14 (or was it 10?) days when you can cancel the contract at the start if it works like crap. 55 euro per month is bleeding money. At the moment I manage with 10. I would gladly pay 20 for something twice as good and be more than content with that, but there are no options like that. It's either 2mb or 360 it seems...

Try and figure out what cabinet you're connected to and then estimate how far away you are from it. That'll give you an idea of the speed you should expect. Vodafone do BB only for €40 per month and Eircom do BB only for €45 per month. I don't know anything about UPC as they aren't available in my area. I've been with Eircom eFibre since December 2013 and never had an outage.

Nonoperational

Have you even put your number into a line checker to see what speed is available? If you don't have a line then put in a neighbours number. Vodafone do a broadband only upto 100Mbit VDSL offering that's absolutely excellent. I get 50Mbit and I get it all the time. You're being very suspicious about the whole thing.

I'd personally rather a 50Mbit or greater VDSL connection than UPC at present until they get their routing issues sorted.

stillalive88

Nonoperational wrote: »

Have you even put your number into a line checker to see what speed is available? If you don't have a line then put in a neighbours number. Vodafone do a broadband only upto 100Mbit VDSL offering that's absolutely excellent. I get 50Mbit and I get it all the time. You're being very suspicious about the whole thing.

I'd personally rather a 50Mbit or greater VDSL connection than UPC at present until they get their routing issues sorted.

I don't have the phone line for this house so I cannot check ):
Is my neighbours number really enough?

Yes I am very suspicious because I had very very VERY bad experiences with ISPs in the past and I know there is nothing there to protect me. But the money will always spill out nonetheless. I only wish there was an easy way to drop out when you get experiences like the line disconnecting 3-4 times a day and going agonizingly slow and things of the sort. I mean, just a reasonable contract between supplier and client, I'm not asking for much

stillalive88

jca wrote: »

Try and figure out what cabinet you're connected to and then estimate how far away you are from it. That'll give you an idea of the speed you should expect. Vodafone do BB only for €40 per month and Eircom do BB only for €45 per month. I don't know anything about UPC as they aren't available in my area. I've been with Eircom eFibre since December 2013 and never had an outage.

Is this simply about the distance from the cabinet, or do I hve to look how many people there are between me and the cabinet? (I'd guess probably not)

galljga1

stillalive88 wrote: »

Is this simply about the distance from the cabinet, or do I hve to look how many people there are between me and the cabinet? (I'd guess probably not)

Distance from the cabinet is a guidline but it depends what way the line is routed between the cabinet and your location, it does not necessarily follow the line you might expect. You are correct to be wary of ISPs. Take anything they say with a pinch of salt. As far as I know they have no obligation to provide a minimum service and being allowed to include the term UP TO beggars belief.

jca

stillalive88 wrote: »

Is this simply about the distance from the cabinet, or do I hve to look how many people there are between me and the cabinet? (I'd guess probably not)

According to the car I'm 500m from my cabinet. I'm on a 70/20 profile and my actual speeds are 63/19. It doesn't matter how many houses are between me and the cabinet every house has 2 pairs that are direct from the house to the cabinet.

editorsean

stillalive88 wrote: »

Yes I am very suspicious because I had very very VERY bad experiences with ISPs in the past and I know there is nothing there to protect me. But the money will always spill out nonetheless. I only wish there was an easy way to drop out when you get experiences like the line disconnecting 3-4 times a day and going agonizingly slow and things of the sort. I mean, just a reasonable contract between supplier and client, I'm not asking for much

As Avada mentioned above, there's a 14 day cooling off period for online orders where you've the right to cancel the contract without giving any reason. So if you order the service online and the speed is not up to your satisfaction, just cancel it.

See the paragraph "The right to change your mind" of this page on the Irish website dealing with Consumer Rights.

My workplace has a VDSL (exchanged based) connection from Eir synced at 30Mbps down and 8Mbps up. While it doesn't sound great compared to what many people get with cabinet based connections, it is very stable and consistent. I rarely run speed tests on it as I know the test will return 28Mbps down and 7.2Mbps up (with the TestMy UK server), assuming no one else in the building is using the connection. It's similar for downloads - pretty much everything we receive downloads at 3 to 3.5MB/s. As for uploading, it's also great not having to wait a few hours to upload large (1GB+) files, which were a pain with the former DSL connection.

stillalive88

editorsean wrote: »

As Avada mentioned above, there's a 14 day cooling off period for online orders where you've the right to cancel the contract without giving any reason. So if you order the service online and the speed is not up to your satisfaction, just cancel it.

See the paragraph "The right to change your mind" of this page on the Irish website dealing with Consumer Rights.

My workplace has a VDSL (exchanged based) connection from Eir synced at 30Mbps down and 8Mbps up. While it doesn't sound great compared to what many people get with cabinet based connections, it is very stable and consistent. I rarely run speed tests on it as I know the test will return 28Mbps down and 7.2Mbps up (with the TestMy UK server), assuming no one else in the building is using the connection. It's similar for downloads - pretty much everything we receive downloads at 3 to 3.5MB/s. As for uploading, it's also great not having to wait a few hours to upload large (1GB+) files, which were a pain with the former DSL connection.

I'll look up what VDSL is. Yes, I only need 10 to 30Mbps and I'm done. I just need them to be there.

THank you all guys for the valuable information.

The bad thing is 14 days is not at all enough to verify the stability and consistency of a service, but I guess that's something. The law is pretty recent so I suppose before that if anything went wrong you were just ****ed from the get go?

jca

I've had BB with various providers since 2005, the only one I've had trouble with in all that time was sky DSL. It was dreadful. I've just switched from eir to Vodafone BB only, yesterday in fact and my first impressions are good, great speeds, really low pings, all good.

stillalive88

I'm giving a try to virgin media though I've heard they've been an all around disaster since they bought UPC. But that is kind of justified, you acquire a company, you're going to have to restructure for sure so I'd say it's normal. Hopefully I'll get a few mbits. I don't need much. I have been promised 240, will update on what I actually get and in what conditions. Booked it friday, and tomorrow (tuesday) the modem should get here and I'll go with the self install.

ItHurtsWhenIP

stillalive88 wrote: »

I'm giving a try to virgin media though I've heard they've been an all around disaster since they bought UPC. But that is kind of justified, you acquire a company, you're going to have to restructure for sure so I'd say it's normal. Hopefully I'll get a few mbits. I don't need much. I have been promised 240, will update on what I actually get and in what conditions. Booked it friday, and tomorrow (tuesday) the modem should get here and I'll go with the self install.

Just so you know, there was no purchase involved here - it was simply a re-brand. Liberty Global already owned both UPC and Virgin. So it was just a case of changing the name over the door and getting Mr. Branson a HGV license!

jca

stillalive88 wrote: »

I'm giving a try to virgin media though I've heard they've been an all around disaster since they bought UPC. But that is kind of justified, you acquire a company, you're going to have to restructure for sure so I'd say it's normal. Hopefully I'll get a few mbits. I don't need much. I have been promised 240, will update on what I actually get and in what conditions. Booked it friday, and tomorrow (tuesday) the modem should get here and I'll go with the self install.

Looking forward to hearing you rant today.

crazy7001

Virign Media are terrible. Switching from them soon! I cannot wait. I would advise other companies such as "Eir". I believe they have gotten much better after their much needed 'face lift'. They are the most reliable right now. With Virgin you are sharing the netowkr with up to 20 house or more. With Eir you are directly connected to the network. Eir is only at 100 m/b down and 20 m/b up right now but they are building on this. Wi-Fi wouldnt get you anywhere near 100 m/bs with any company anyways.

stillalive88

crazy7001 wrote: »

Virign Media are terrible. Switching from them soon! I cannot wait. I would advise other companies such as "Eir". I believe they have gotten much better after their much needed 'face lift'. They are the most reliable right now. With Virgin you are sharing the netowkr with up to 20 house or more. With Eir you are directly connected to the network. Eir is only at 100 m/b down and 20 m/b up right now but they are building on this. Wi-Fi wouldnt get you anywhere near 100 m/bs with any company anyways.

Yes but virgin media is fiber which I'm counting to get connected to via ethernet... I'll see how it goes, Eir would be my second choice. My guess is that it's hard to really beat fiber even if it's congested, though I might be wrong.
Also, I'm at the very very end of the road so whatever kind of connection I am the furthest possible away I think.
Modem is supposed to come today. I shoud still have 10 days left to decide (I think? When does that 14 days evaluation period really start from???)

Disappointed to know that it was just a facelift. Well even that can require restructuring, I guess they are trying to milk it as much as possible. I already see myvirginmedia is down and just gives an Error, that could be cause of the flash sale that just happened.

crazy7001

stillalive88 wrote: »

Yes but virgin media is fiber which I'm counting to get connected to via ethernet... I'll see how it goes, Eir would be my second choice. My guess is that it's hard to really beat fiber even if it's congested, though I might be wrong.
Also, I'm at the very very end of the road so whatever kind of connection I am the furthest possible away I think.
Modem is supposed to come today. I shoud still have 10 days left to decide (I think? When does that 14 days evaluation period really start from???)

Disappointed to know that it was just a facelift. Well even that can require restructuring, I guess they are trying to milk it as much as possible. I already see myvirginmedia is down and just gives an Error, that could be cause of the flash sale that just happened.

You would be lucky to get myvirginmedia working. Nothing they have works. They use their adverts to poach as many people as they can. Ive hardly ever seen evidence of people getting their 240 mb and 360 mb from VM. I believe that you only get those speeds when all eight planets of the solar system align.

digiman

crazy7001 wrote: »

You would be lucky to get myvirginmedia working. Nothing they have works. They use their adverts to poach as many people as they can. Ive hardly ever seen evidence of people getting their 240 mb and 360 mb from VM. I believe that you only get those speeds when all eight planets of the solar system align.

That's not true at all. When I was on the 240Mb/s product I would almost always get that speed, even of my own wifi network.

Since I got upgraded to 360Mb/s I still always get 240Mb/s at least on my wifi and have seen times when I get 360Mb/s on my wifi also. I've not tested via the ethernet cable as the thunderbolt ethernet adapter for my macbook isn't working to well at the moment.

Do OpenEir not offer guaranteed bandwidth on their VDSL service? I thought I see mentioned CIR values in their booklets on the openeir website?

ItHurtsWhenIP

stillalive88 wrote: »

Yes but virgin media is fiber which I'm counting to get connected to via ethernet... I'll see how it goes, Eir would be my second choice. My guess is that it's hard to really beat fiber even if it's congested, though I might be wrong.
Also, I'm at the very very end of the road so whatever kind of connection I am the furthest possible away I think.
Modem is supposed to come today. I shoud still have 10 days left to decide (I think? When does that 14 days evaluation period really start from???)

Disappointed to know that it was just a facelift. Well even that can require restructuring, I guess they are trying to milk it as much as possible. I already see myvirginmedia is down and just gives an Error, that could be cause of the flash sale that just happened.

Just another correction - Virgin Media is delivered to your house by co-axial cable and not fibre. The co-ax is routed back to a CMTS (I think) which is then connected to the VM network by Fibre.

This is similar to how eir deliver their eir fibre product - Copper telephone wire from the customers house back to a cabinet/exchange and then fibre from there onto the eir core network. The problem with this product is that it is distance dependent. After 1.5-2KM there is nothing. I haven't heard anybody talk about distance restrictions with the VM product.

The 14 day rule in regards to telephone/online ordering takes effect from the day the service/product you ordered is delivered.

ItHurtsWhenIP

crazy7001 wrote: »

You would be lucky to get myvirginmedia working. Nothing they have works. They use their adverts to poach as many people as they can. Ive hardly ever seen evidence of people getting their 240 mb and 360 mb from VM. I believe that you only get those speeds when all eight planets of the solar system align.

If you took the time to have a read through some of the VM threads here, you will find plenty of people getting more that the 240/360 speeds from VM. They usually need to use their own wireless routers to get those speeds over wi-fi, but being wired to the VM routers will nearly always get you the speeds advertised.

ED E

MMFITWGDV wrote: »

Just another correction - Virgin Media is delivered to your house by co-axial cable and not fibre. The co-ax is routed back to a CMTS (I think) which is then connected to the VM network by Fibre.

This is similar to how eir deliver their eir fibre product - Copper telephone wire from the customers house back to a cabinet/exchange and then fibre from there onto the eir core network. The problem with this product is that it is distance dependent. After 1.5-2KM there is nothing. I haven't heard anybody talk about distance restrictions with the VM product.

Exactly. Its called HFC, Hybrid Fibre-Coax.

Virgin would have much bigger distance issues so they'll only ever offer it for a few hundred meters. DSL is good for range, CoAx is good for speed.

stillalive88

Well, so far not too bad! Got 140mb in down and 24 in up, it seems. 13 ping. At 5pm. Will test it at different hours. So far I'm happy. I'm afraid to try the cables downstairs as it has been an open female coaxial, in a corner and I suspect there will easily be dust in the coaxial. How the hell do you clean a coaxial female? Should I risk trying connecting there and see if maybe that isn't some kind of exstension cord that goes through the wall and to ground floor? I'm pretty sure it's a coaxial female just like the one on the box.
P.s. Nothing was connected to the box beforehand, so if that cable is connected to something, I don't know what it is connected to. Going to test wifi now.

P.p.s: So am I basically sharing a set amount of bandwidth with everybody else in the road?

UPDATE: ok, wifi on close range resulted in 34mb down and 22 up with 16 ping, while going downstairs and about 10 meters in air distance resulted in 47 down and 23 up with still 16 ping (weird).

On Virgin: modem came about 4 days after placing the order during the flash sale. Came with a (SHORT!!!) about 3ft coaxial cable, power adapter and no ethernet cable. Which I got from a friend beforehand cause I figured if they were as bad as they mention, there wouldn't be one. And I was right. Instruction manual only refers to their better modem and doesn't show the new one so any non-tech friendly person might get stuck. There are no instruction whatsoever on how to do any kind of tweaking or configuration to the modem, how to connect to it, really nothing. You plug it in and it connects automatically, it went good at the first try, but if you get a problem you'll just get a red light and that's it. At least we have google now to look up this issues, but still, you need a connection to use it

I'm happy with this result considering the place I come from is a meteor dongle that drops about every 10 minutes and tests at 0.7mb in download, 1mb in up with 40 ping, but only when you actually manage to load the test page. Which is weird cause my friend has an o2 dongle that easily gets to 4mb in download, and 1.5mb in up with 46 ping.

stillalive88

Just a thought: is it possible that when connecting from the laptop, its own ethernet connection might be limiting the bandwidth to 140? By anything between software or old hardware?