Planning for agriculture entrance

hometruths

I have a field which has got very overgrown and two large trees came down over winter. I need access off the public road to get in and clear it up as cannot access with machinery from adjoining lands due to gradient.

Land is in North Wicklow.

The road is 50 kp/h and sightlines are good in both directions. I presume a professional application is recommended? Any idea of rough cost for a professional to make the application?

Angry bird

How wide in metres is the road?

hometruths

Angry bird wrote: »

How wide in metres is the road?

Just over 5m, does width make a difference?

Angry bird

Just that 4 metres or less may not need planning. Planning application needed. You will need a site layout map and a scaled elevations of proposed gate, piers and entrance, the rest is just the standard paperwork. Assuming it's not on a dangerous bend with poor visibility lines, should be a formality.

moleyv

If its an N road or a protected R road you may have issues.

hometruths

Angry bird wrote: »

Just that 4 metres or less may not need planning. Planning application needed. You will need a site layout map and a scaled elevations of proposed gate, piers and entrance, the rest is just the standard paperwork. Assuming it's not on a dangerous bend with poor visibility lines, should be a formality.

Thats interesting. The road with good sightlines is just over 5m. But there is also access from a more minor road that may be under 4m - I discounted that one because sightlines are not great, but maybe should have another look. Do you have a link to anything about the 4m or less?

hometruths

moleyv wrote: »

If its an N road or a protected R road you may have issues.

It's an R road, but no idea whether its protected or not. Protected from what? Is there a way of finding out? i.e an online resource?

Angry bird

I'll post a link tomorrow, only caveat is that it shall not be a traffic hazard but you've already said re sightlines.

Nekarsulm

Here in Cavan it's now 1500 to the planning dept. and 500 to the architect........
There's not an old gap or gateway overgrown somewhere is there?

hometruths

Angry bird wrote: »

I'll post a link tomorrow, only caveat is that it shall not be a traffic hazard but you've already said re sightlines.

Thanks, would be very helpful. Its not a traffic hazard as there is very little traffic on the minor road, though it is a 50 kp/h road. I have about 50 m clear sight both ways on the minor road.

Angry bird

Use an architectural technician, much cheaper. Off hand planning fee to council is 80 but check that.

moleyv

Yeah it should be in the development plan re protected r routes. They might be called something else, or not there at all, I'm not familiar with the Wicklow policies. Basically the NRA gets involved and that can usually end badly.

The reason I mention it is you said a 50k zone, so I assume it is built up or near built up. That could be the traffic hazard to discount the exempted development mentioned above.

You could always ask for a pre planning with a planner, they are free, just call the council. They will set you in the right direction.

Angry bird

Yep, as above. I work in a different council and would find 50 metres sightlines on a minor road with slow operational speed to be fine re agricultural entrances exempt from planning. Wicklow may have a different approach so Yeh have a chat with them.

hometruths

Nekarsulm wrote: »

Here in Cavan it's now 1500 to the planning dept. and 500 to the architect........
There's not an old gap or gateway overgrown somewhere is there?

There is an entrance marked on the old maps but they're the very old maps i.e Historic 6 Inch Black & White (1837-1842) - I think I might be pushing my luck to rely on that!

hometruths

moleyv wrote: »

The reason I mention it is you said a 50k zone, so I assume it is built up or near built up. That could be the traffic hazard to discount the exempted development mentioned above.

Its a rural lane, right on the edge of the village town plan type boundaries, so I guess on paper it is a built up area whereas in practice its not.

Angry bird

Ah, the exemption only applies to public roads under 4 metrez in width not for private lanes, a quirk in the planning regs.

moleyv

Just to point out, if the entrance is directly onto the R road, you will likely need 160 metres sightlines and forward stopping sightlines. Uninterrupted, from a height of just over 1 metre.

I had a quick look at the Wicklow dev plan, they have a draft one too coming soon. I only looked at the current one. They don't list the sightlines, but say they will be according to the DMRB (design manual for roads and bridges). So that is where I am getting the 160m from.

In all likelyhood, the area engineer or roads engineer would make the call on it.

There is also DMURS, which would allow for less sightlines in certain situations, but I didn't look to see if that was in the draft plan.

Also the setback for where to take these sightlines from, from the road edge could be anything from 2.4m to 6m. An ag entrance usually needs more of a set back, but lower amounts could be allowable, if it is used very little.

It all comes back to the planner and engineer. Worth asking them before paying to get drawings etc. They might even talk over the phone informally.

Also forget about the 6 inch map. If its not there now, or fairly recently it doesn't matter.

hometruths

Angry bird wrote: »

Ah, the exemption only applies to public roads under 4 metrez in width not for private lanes, a quirk in the planning regs.

The road in question is a public road, but thats good to know all the same. If you own half a private lane can you open an entrance for agriculture?!

hometruths

Angry bird wrote: »

Ah, the exemption only applies to public roads under 4 metrez in width not for private lanes, a quirk in the planning regs.

Might sound like a stupid question, but what exactly are the differences between a private lane and a public road?

i.e is a private lane in a single individuals ownership? is there a defining criteria?

sydthebeat

schmittel wrote: »

Might sound like a stupid question, but what exactly are the differences between a private lane and a public road?

i.e is a private lane in a single individuals ownership? is there a defining criteria?

if the council maintain it, its a public road... if the dont its most probably private

hometruths

sydthebeat wrote: »

if the council maintain it, its a public road... if the dont its most probably private

That is a very strange quirk then - basically you can open an entrance onto a road less than 4m that the council maintain with impunity BUT a road they deem not important enough to bother maintaining you cannot open an entrance onto without permission.

Seems like it should be the other way round!