VDSL question

Rebelkid

I have a quick question about VDSL and I aid here was the place to ask so here it goes. My local exchange is being upgraded to fibre and will be live within 3 months.

Currently I'm on ADSL (8MB) which is pretty slow as you can imagine. My question is on the openeir map it says the Fibre cabinet is being build directly beside the exchange. Does this mean anyone wanted fibre in the exchange area will be getting fed of this cabinet or how does it work? As currently I am 2.5km to my exchange

ItHurtsWhenIP

Rebelkid wrote: »

I have a quick question about VDSL and I aid here was the place to ask so here it goes. My local exchange is being upgraded to fibre and will be live within 3 months.

Currently I'm on ADSL (8MB) which is pretty slow as you can imagine. My question is on the openeir map it says the Fibre cabinet is being build directly beside the exchange. Does this mean anyone wanted fibre in the exchange area will be getting fed of this cabinet or how does it work? As currently I am 2.5km to my exchange

It is quite likely that anyone connected to the exchange will get connected to the cab.

However you are too far away to get any direct benefit from VDSL. However as others that are within 1.5KM of the cab move to VDSL, this should reduce congestion for the ADSL circuits, so you should less slow downs at peak times.

If you're really lucky they may also upgrade the DSLAM to give you ADSL2+, which could give you up to 24Mbps.

Arkady

We're on an ASDL connection at present and get an average of about 5-6 Mbps.
Our router shows downstream attenuation of 11 dB.

A 50 Mbps FTTC service was recently made available in this area, and the cabinet is about 500m from the house.

At that distance, what speed is reasonable to expect if we switch to VDSL?

Edit : Will the 50Mbps services be going to 100 Mbps in the near future, or is that their max capacity until FTTH ?

ItHurtsWhenIP

Arkady wrote: »

We're on an ASDL connection at present and get an average of about 5-6 Mbps.
Our router shows downstream attenuation of 11 dB.

A 50 Mbps FTTC service was recently made available in this area, and the cabinet is about 500m from the house.

At that distance, what speed is reasonable to expect if we switch to VDSL?

Edit : Will the 50Mbps services be going to 100 Mbps in the near future, or is that their max capacity until FTTH ?

The 11dB reading puts you at ~800m from the exchange.

Pop your number in here and see what speeds it reports you could get - bear in mind though if this is a newly activated cab, then there may not be a figure populated in the database just yet.

If the cab is unvectored, the maximum speed somebody can get is 70Mbps. If it is vectored (or will be in the future) then that maximum will be 100Mbps.

The speed you will achieve is based purely on the distance. I think @500m from an unvectored cab, then you can get ~50Mbps. If it was vectored then you might get upwards of ~70Mbps.

That will be the best you can hope for until FTTH or Virgin Media come knocking - and if you are VDSL-ed, then don't expect FTTH until sometime after 2020.

ED E

In that scenario most likely:
- You're direct fed
- The exchange is the older 7Mb type
- Its eVDSL you'll get at 40-50Mb, no vectoring there at present.

Arkady

MMFITWGDV wrote: »

The 11dB reading puts you at ~800m from the exchange.

Pop your number in here and see what speeds it reports you could get - bear in mind though if this is a newly activated cab, then there may not be a figure populated in the database just yet.

If the cab is unvectored, the maximum speed somebody can get is 70Mbps. If it is vectored (or will be in the future) then that maximum will be 100Mbps.

The speed you will achieve is based purely on the distance. I think @500m from an unvectored cab, then you can get ~50Mbps. If it was vectored then you might get upwards of ~70Mbps.

That will be the best you can hope for until FTTH or Virgin Media come knocking - and if you are VDSL-ed, then don't expect FTTH until sometime after 2020.

ED E wrote: »

In that scenario most likely:
- You're direct fed
- The exchange is the older 7Mb type
- Its eVDSL you'll get at 40-50Mb, no vectoring there at present.

We're 500m almost exactly, so perhaps the copper line is not great quality.
So I guess we can expect somewhere around 40Mbps ?
When I put my number into that link I get :

Exchange Code: Unknown
DSL Enabled: Yes - 20 MB
NGB Enabled: Yes - 20 MB
Fibre Enabled: Yes - 50 MB
LLU Enabled: No
DSL Enabled: Yes - 20 MB
NGB Enabled: Yes - 20 MB
Fibre Enabled: Yes - 50 MB
LLU Enabled: No

How likely is to be vectored/vectored, and if vectored is it likely to go to 100 Mbps in the future ?

(Whatever we get it'll be a huge improvement over the 5-6 Mbpswe're currently getting, so I'm not complaining, just curious about the technology/future speeds )

ItHurtsWhenIP

Arkady wrote: »

We're 500m almost exactly, so perhaps the copper line is not great quality.
So I guess we can expect somewhere around 40Mbps ?
When I put my number into that link I get :



How likely is to be vectored/vectored, and if vectored is it likely to go to 100 Mbps in the future ?

(Whatever we get it'll be a huge improvement over the 5-6 Mbpswe're currently getting, so I'm not complaining, just curious about the technology/future speeds )

Unless you are within 100-200m from a cab, you will never get 100Mbps. So you could get ~50Mbps now and if it is vectored you might get up towards ~70Mbps, but don't expect anything more.

Even the slowest VDSL profile (7/1) would seem to be an improvement on what you are getting, but it looks like you can get better.

mcquaim

MMFITWGDV wrote: »

Unless you are within 100-200m from a cab, you will never get 100Mbps. So you could get ~50Mbps now and if it is vectored you might get up towards ~70Mbps, but don't expect anything more.

Even the slowest VDSL profile (7/1) would seem to be an improvement on what you are getting, but it looks like you can get better.

I'm approx 400-500m from the cabinet here in Monaghan town and I've a 90Mbps line with Pure and consistently get around 85Mbps down and 19Mbps up!

Can't complain with it one bit apart from my Draytek 2860 router wouldn't work properly on it..

ItHurtsWhenIP

mcquaim wrote: »

I'm approx 400-500m from the cabinet here in Monaghan town and I've a 90Mbps line with Pure and consistently get around 85Mbps down and 19Mbps up!

Can't complain with it one bit apart from my Draytek 2860 router wouldn't work properly on it..

I was only getting speeds vs distance off some graphs from the web.

What's your downstream attenuation?

Arkady

MMFITWGDV wrote: »

Unless you are within 100-200m from a cab, you will never get 100Mbps. So you could get ~50Mbps now and if it is vectored you might get up towards ~70Mbps, but don't expect anything more.

I didn't say I was. My first post was asking, and still is, what the likely speed given my distance and attenuation is going to be on the 50 Mbps service. Separately I was asking will this 50 Mbps ever be upgraded to 100 Mbps service and when it does what speed will I likely to get then. In case anyone's confused, Ive already stated, I'm happy with anything over what I'm currently getting, that's not issue. It's technical curiosity as to what I can expect. I'm well aware that 50 and 100 Mbps are max speeds, not average ones. Hence the questions.

mcquaim

It all depends on your cab I guess what you will be able to get! For anyone to put a figure on would just be guess work..

If it's updated to use vectoring and you are only 500m from it then you can't end up much worse than me then I'd suggest..

ED E

Arkady wrote: »

I didn't say I was. My first post was asking, and still is, what the likely speed given my distance and attenuation is going to be on the 50 Mbps service. Separately I was asking will this 50 Mbps ever be upgraded to 100 Mbps service and when it does what speed will I likely to get then. In case anyone's confused, Ive already stated, I'm happy with anything over what I'm currently getting, that's not issue. It's technical curiosity as to what I can expect. I'm well aware that 50 and 100 Mbps are max speeds, not average ones. Hence the questions.

Its currently a 70Mb service.
It will most likely get 100Mb Vectored services later.

Your line will currently give 40-50Mb, and assuming the upgrade it will get 50-70Mb. It will never manage 100Mb, though your neighbours 200m down the street would.

Arkady

ED E wrote: »

Its currently a 70Mb service.
It will most likely get 100Mb Vectored services later.

Your line will currently give 40-50Mb, and assuming the upgrade it will get 50-70Mb. It will never manage 100Mb, though your neighbors 200m down the street would.

I'm sorry I'm not following you :

What do you mean by currently a 70 Mbps service, is it not currently a max 50 Mbps service ?

Or am I reading this wrong :

Exchange Code: Unknown
DSL Enabled: Yes - 20 MB
NGB Enabled: Yes - 20 MB
Fibre Enabled: Yes - 50 MB
LLU Enabled: No
DSL Enabled: Yes - 20 MB
NGB Enabled: Yes - 20 MB
Fibre Enabled: Yes - 50 MB
LLU Enabled: No

Does the 50 above not mean it's currently a max 50 Mbps service in that area (and at our location from the cabinet will be closer to 30-40 Mbps, which I expected), rather than our actual property being 50 Mbps ?

Or do you mean it's actually a max 70 Mbps service (and our property location will get approx 50 Mbps) and that service will eventually be upgraded to a max 100 Mpbs ? (Which could eventually mean 50-70 Mbps at our location)

guil

It's 50mb now, If vectoring gets enabled it might go up to 70mb. It will never be 100mb on copper lines.

ED E

Arkady wrote: »

Exchange Code: Unknown
DSL Enabled: Yes - 20 MB On YOUR line
NGB Enabled: Yes - 20 MB On YOUR line
Fibre Enabled: Yes - 50 MB On YOUR line
LLU Enabled: No
DSL Enabled: Yes - 20 MB On YOUR line
NGB Enabled: Yes - 20 MB On YOUR line
Fibre Enabled: Yes - 50 MB On YOUR line
LLU Enabled: No

See amendments. The prequal database returns the test values for your line, so its spitting out values for a 500m run, if you run the same test on a premises next to the exchange (try the local shop) you'll probably see 70(Maybe 100).

Arkady

ED E wrote: »

See amendments. The prequal database returns the test values for your line, so its spitting out values for a 500m run, if you run the same test on a premises next to the exchange (try the local shop) you'll probably see 70(Maybe 100).

Ok that's clearer, thanks.

Is 50 Mbps normal for 500m so, and is that what I should expect, or should I expect 30-40 Mbs ?

ItHurtsWhenIP

Arkady wrote: »

I'm sorry I'm not following you :

What do you mean by currently a 70 Mbps service, is it not currently a max 50 Mbps service ?

Or am I reading this wrong :

Exchange Code: Unknown
DSL Enabled: Yes - 20 MB
NGB Enabled: Yes - 20 MB
Fibre Enabled: Yes - 50 MB
LLU Enabled: No
DSL Enabled: Yes - 20 MB
NGB Enabled: Yes - 20 MB
Fibre Enabled: Yes - 50 MB
LLU Enabled: No

Does the 50 above not mean it's currently a max 50 Mbps service in that area (and at our location from the cabinet will be closer to 30-40 Mbps, which I expected), rather than our actual property being 50 Mbps ?

Or do you mean it's actually a max 70 Mbps service (and our property location will get approx 50 Mbps) and that service will eventually be upgraded to a max 100 Mpbs ? (Which could eventually mean 50-70 Mbps at our location)

^^^Correct

The Cush

Arkady wrote: »

Is 50 Mbps normal for 500m so, and is that what I should expect, or should I expect 30-40 Mbs ?

See page 48 of this open-eir document which gives an indicative speed vs. distance profile for the service

http://www.openeir.ie/WorkArea/DownloadAsset.aspx?id=2785

Arkady

My experience with ASDL was that the cheap ISP routers were always crap compare to a decent spec one your bought yourself.

Can I get my own router for VDSL, or do I have to use the crappy one the ISP will inevitably send out ?

mcquaim

Arkady wrote: »

My experience with ASDL was that the cheap ISP routers were always crap compare to a decent spec one your bought yourself.

Can I get my own router for VDSL, or do I have to use the crappy one the ISP will inevitably send out ?

You can buy your own!

Arkady

mcquaim wrote: »

You can buy your own!

Indeed I can buy a VDSL router, but will it work with a specific ISP's VDSL, because, unlike ASDL (where I've often used my own instead of the ISP's), I thought there was an issue with VDSL where the ISP will keep some of the necessary VDSL router settings private and hence you end up confined to using theirs anyway ?

mcquaim

Arkady wrote: »

Indeed I can buy a VDSL router, but will it work with a specific ISP's VDSL, because, unlike ASDL (where I've often used my own instead of the ISP's), I thought there was an issue with VDSL where the ISP will keep some of the necessary VDSL router settings private and hence you end up confined to using theirs anyway ?

I don't think that is an issue, not that I've heard of anyway!

I'm with Pure and use a Netgear router for VDSL2.

My mate is with Eir and he uses a TP-Link router!

Both work fine!

I had issues with a Draytek but that was the router itself, not the ISP!

ED E

Arkady wrote: »

Indeed I can buy a VDSL router, but will it work with a specific ISP's VDSL, because, unlike ASDL (where I've often used my own instead of the ISP's), I thought there was an issue with VDSL where the ISP will keep some of the necessary VDSL router settings private and hence you end up confined to using theirs anyway ?

Only with Sky is it a headache, but possible for Nerds who are bothered to extract the credentials.

With eir/Pure/Vodafone/Three you can use your own kit if you don't order their TV (for those that offer TV).

Arkady

Thanks for all the answers folks, very helpful ! (Hopefully will also be useful to other posters changing from ASDL to VDSL

More questions :

The ISP is going to send out an engineer to install a new face plate on the master socket in the house, that will include a built in filter.

1. Will that mean I can get rid of the old filters on any phones connected to other sockets ? If any are left on by mistake will the old filters have any negative effect ?

2. Also - Anything I should ask the ISP's engineer to do when he's here, or check for me ?

3. Getting the most of my own set up :

I mostly use WiFi, and my network cards are all capable of at least 100 Mbps iif not more, so I think I'm ok on that end.

- Would it be worth upgrading any of main internal phone line, from the say the socket to the phone cabinet on the side of the house, to a better Category of cable ? Would that gain a few extra Mbps or not ? Probably not worth it I'm thinking ?

ED E

1. Yes, it filters all extensions vs you doing it with micros
2. Only if shorts out, but its another point of failure so dump them
2a. If you have any phone Y splitters (1 socket = 4 sockets) then they can be problematic FYI
3. Unlikely, unless you have a really dud drop wire, the OpenEir tech will test with his meter and should see this if applicable (if not lazy).