Why is traditional Irish music all identical ?

Ally Dick

Now I know there are exceptions like Crusty Manure and other hybrids, but by and large, why is the ceili type of traditional Irish music all absolutely identical? The ones with the squeeze box, fiddle and banjo variety ? Is it my ignorant ear that cannot discern the different tunes, or are they all playing the same one?

Seesee

Get your ears syringed!

Mesrine65

Reels

This is the most common type of dance tune played in Irish traditional music, originally heavily influenced by similar dances in Scotland.

Usually it consists of two or more parts which are played twice.

Each part up of eight segments known as bars, and the time signature is 4/4.

This means that there are four beats to every bar (each beat is counted in even measure as 1-2-3-4 I 1-2-3-4).

Jigs

The jig (or double jig) is another common type of dance of English origin.

Like the reel, the tune usually consists of two parts made of eight bars, but the time signature is 6/8.

This means that there are six beats to every bar (each beat is counted in groups of three as 123-456 I 123-456).

Hornpipes

Hornpipes are dance tunes that appear to have originated in the maritime tradition.

The most common type of hornpipe is similar to the reel in terms of time signature (4/4), but instead of counting four even beats per bar there is an emphasis on the first and third beats, which give the tune a kind of ‘swing’ or ‘bounce’ feel ( each beat is counted as 1-2-3-4 I 1-2-3-4*).

Kristopherus

You're tone deaf. There are a myriad of different types of traditional music, just as there is in Classical, Rock, Jazz etc. But why am I giving you a helpful answer????? This is After Hours............

Crumpets

Ally Dick wrote: »

Is it my ignorant ear that cannot discern the different tunes

Yes

somefeen

Because your average Ceili band knows only a few tunes and there all the same ones that you heard at the last ceilli you were at.
And they're all ****e.

Be glad its not that Scottish ****e

pickarooney

Sounds the same to me but so does all reggae.
I'm a bit tone deaf, in fairness.

Dolbert

The standard modes and repetition probably have something to do with it

darkpagandeath

Sure you have not just been listening to the fields of athenry on loop ?

biko

It's not all the same.


Why are you so bad at music?

Hazys

Probably the same reason why every EDM song sounds the same to my Dad or as he calls it Pots and Pans music

Harry Palmr

That fiddle/accordion stuff really does all sound the same but I suppose 12 bar blues does too if you don't listen to much of it.

Senna

Love a bit of diddly idilly dee music

The_Valeyard

Some trad is great. Absolutely mental stuff.

kupus

you really need to get away from the computer

That_Guy

Because you're an uncultured heathen. That's why!

Ally Dick

kupus wrote: »

you really need to get away from the computer

I'm working on it

ToddyDoody

An interesting sex tip: Put some trad on.

strelok

because it's all ****e

bodhrandude

It can all vary quite differently depending on the instruments.

Noel Hill - Concertina Tony McMahon Accordion and a bunch of Kerry dancers.

The Bothy Band (Late 1970s)

Mary Begin - Whistle Johnny 'Ringo' McDonagh - Bodhran (1982)

mickstupp

Had a great conversation with a guy on my college bus once, plays fiddle. He was telling me that players have 'accents'. In that he can tell where a person learned to play, down to the town sometimes, depending on how they play. Found that fascinating. He said when your ear gets good enough you can even tell if they learned in one place and then spent a bunch of time playing somewhere else.

Wibbs

mickstupp wrote: »

Had a great conversation with a guy on my college bus once, plays fiddle. He was telling me that players have 'accents'. In that he can tell where a person learned to play, down to the town sometimes, depending on how they play. Found that fascinating. He said when your ear gets good enough you can even tell if they learned in one place and then spent a bunch of time playing somewhere else.

I've heard similar from those in the know. Me, TBH I have a cloth ear where it comes to trad, it never really appealed to me, even though I was exposed to it quite a bit as a kid. Mind you I do really like the unaccompanied uilleann pipes, particularly the slower airs. Ditto for some sean nos singing, but jigs and reels no.

rockatansky

Ally Dick wrote: »

Now I know there are exceptions like Crusty Manure and other hybrids, but by and large, why is the ceili type of traditional Irish music all absolutely identical? The ones with the squeeze box, fiddle and banjo variety ? Is it my ignorant ear that cannot discern the different tunes, or are they all playing the same one?

Stumbled across this one evening when I was switching through the channels, some really good trad music. Damien Mullane, accordion player from London, taken from the Fleadh Ceol in Derry a few years ago. Really gets going around the 2:20 mark.

Superb performance!

Earthhorse

Obviously it's not all identical but I completely relate to your complaint. Much of it seems to be the same though I would make a similar complaint about other genres, such as the blues.

I love this piece by The Gloaming though:

Like Wibbs I can't stand jigs and reels though I think it's worth noting that music is designed to be danced to rather than listened to. I think a lot of music makes more sense in the context of a live performance, such as classical, whereas I would never really listen to it at home.

riffmongous

As already said, a lot of the music is for dancing or for the players of the music themselves, like in some sessions where they sit in the corner all facing each other.

And Christy Manure, really? :rolleyes: Ride on OP

Fleawuss

The bands have been inhaling smoke from the damp turf fires for too long

Royale with Cheese

Having studied music from the junior cert all the way through to university... I really can't stand trad.

HamsterFace

Theres a lot of crap out there to be fair. But some of the stuff from the trad revival in the 70s is amazing, check out some videos of the Bothy band from the 70s, it was of that rock era.

wrote:

Why is traditional Irish music all identical ?

Sweet mother of divine Jesus. Words fail me. Truly. 'There is no darkness but ignorance', as a man once wrote.

Herb Powell

Earthhorse wrote: »

Obviously it's not all identical but I completely relate to your complaint. Much of it seems to be the same though I would make a similar complaint about other genres, such as the blues.

I love this piece by The Gloaming though:

Like Wibbs I can't stand jigs and reels though I think it's worth noting that music is designed to be danced to rather than listened to. I think a lot of music makes more sense in the context of a live performance, such as classical, whereas I would never really listen to it at home.

Martin Hayes is a genius, was lucky enough to be on sound desk duty for a performance of his at a local theatre. Wow is all I can say.

Wibbs

Earthhorse wrote: »

Much of it seems to be the same though I would make a similar complaint about other genres, such as the blues.

+1. Blues is incredibly samey(moreso than Irish trad IMH). Flamenco another genre like that(though again a dance thing). Basically the same tunes all the time. They'd all bore the hell out of me after not very long, though would listen to and enjoy a few pieces.

turnikett1

As a trad. fiddler and box player myself I can concede that a lot of it most definitely does sound the same. Given that the majority of trad. tunes are played in the same 4 keys (and their modal relations), played to the same sets of rhythms/dances (jigs, reels, polkas, hornpipes, slides), and that there are 1000s upon 1000s of different tunes, it's only a matter of time before all the different combinations of notes get played out.

There are some tunes for example where the difference between them might only be a few notes in various bars. But they are different. All of them. Some of them wholly different, some of them barely different. It's the little nuances and subtle differences in tunes that makes tunes great, and it's the personal expression and interpretation of that tune from a player that makes it even better.

If you listen to trad regularly you can easily pick out different tunes. But what you're saying can be said about any genre. I've heard people say all metal sounds the same, all pop sounds the same, all rap, etc. Anything can come across as "samey" if you're not familiar with it.

suicide_circus

Like jazz, trad takes effort to understand and get into if you didn't grow up with it. I didn't grow up with it and have put no effort into understanding it therefore I am not into it. Its highly repetitive but then many music styles are. That sort of trance like state you get from African tribal type rhythms or techno or that Indian style beats which lend themselves very well to modern dance music.

keeponhurling

Wonder if this is the first of a series.

Looking for the the "why does rock/pop/jazz/opera all sound identical?" threads

Stealthfins

Try listening to uillen pipe players,ok you have Davey Spillane,he's very freestyle and progressive.

Eugene Lamb would be more your classic traditional players.

I prefer the more classic sound rather than the modern sound.

Herb Powell

Herb Powell wrote: »

Martin Hayes is a genius, was lucky enough to be on sound desk duty for a performance of his at a local theatre. Wow is all I can say.

Couldn't agree more. Martin Hayes is world class by any standard. So, too, is Zoë Conway, even if she is much younger. Heard her a few years ago with the ineffably refreshing Iarla Ó Lionáird in the stunning acoustics of Dundalk's 13th-century 'Green church'. Watch that space.