Completely Self-Sufficient in Ireland ?

markushanke

I know this is a question that is very wide in scope, but I would nonetheless like to get some perspectives from other members here.

Do you think it is possible to go completely off-grid and become self-sufficient to a high degree here in the wilds of Ireland, through a combination of foraging, planting and fishing ? I have been looking into a remote location in the mountains of Connemara, but I really do not know to what degree one could sustain oneself, as I am still missing knowledge of what edible plants/food items are actually available. Energy is not that much of an issue, as I believe it can be done quite well with a combination of solar, wind and water, at least on a small scale.

I am aware that complete self-sufficiency is probably not realistic, especially in terms of food, but I am wondering as to how independent one could really become. It's easy to have some romantic notion of living off the land, but in reality this is hard, and involves lots of daily labour, and in-depth knowledge of the environment here. Never mind the legal and logistical difficulties at the moment, I am just trying to get a feel for whether the overall concept would be workable in the more remote parts of Ireland.

Also, does anybody know of anyone who actually does live completely off-grid in the wild, anywhere here in Ireland ?

L1011

One of the biggest problems is the amount of labour required for certain things. I suspect a small enough grouping could be self sufficient in certain areas of the country, but it would be impractical for a family or single person.

Shelter from wind and water and heat requirements are going to be a lot higher in Connemara / Donegal / Beara than in, say, the midlands which is another problem with going very remote.

aaakev

I dont think its something that will be an easy task but if your looking at buying a bit of land you could put a "shed" on it and start from there maybe as a weekend/free time retreat and go from there maybe plant a garden growing a few bits. Many animals around for hunting?

my3cents

The hero of "The Good Life" John Seymour lived in Ireland for a few years before moving back to his farm in Pembrokeshire.

btw found a FULL pdf of his The Complete Book of Self Sufficiency here

I think of the book in these terms, its a bit like someone showing you a magic trick just because you know how its done doesn't mean you can do it yourself.

markushanke

aaakev wrote: »

I dont think its something that will be an easy task but if your looking at buying a bit of land you could put a "shed" on it and start from there maybe as a weekend/free time retreat and go from there maybe plant a garden growing a few bits. Many animals around for hunting?

I agree, that lifestyle does not come out of nowhere to someone who has never done it before. Plenty of trial runs required ! And yes, I had something along those lines in mind

my3cents wrote:

I think of the book in these terms, its a bit like someone showing you a magic trick just because you know how its done doesn't mean you can do it yourself.

That is brilliant, thank you very much !

L1011 wrote:

Shelter from wind and water and heat requirements are going to be a lot higher in Connemara / Donegal / Beara than in, say, the midlands which is another problem with going very remote.

Yes, that's right. I think an initial investment is required - you need a good, solid dwelling that keeps out the elements, and takes care of most of your energy requirements ( think solar, wind, water ). The good old log cabin in the woods is a romantic ideal, but in reality probably very impractical in a place like Ireland.

sheesh

I would forget foraging and fishing and look more at milk and potato diet with some fish and a pig as an addition. it worked for people in the old days and the milk and potato s meant to be a nutritionally complete.

the only draw back is that with animals come legal responsibilities which might not be what on off gridder wants.

If you have the land already I would say give it a go for a weekend then a week have a look at planting native edible plants around the property and see how you get on.

sounds cool.

Watch Ryder

sheesh wrote: »

the only draw back is that with animals come legal responsibilities which might not be what on off gridder wants.

Legal responsibilities like registration of animals etc?

Kiltris

I would imagine that if I was to go completely off grid (which I think is near impossible but yet I dream about everyday) I would do it in a remote enough area that I wouldn't be arsed with calf animal registrations etc.

However, I couldn't see myself keeping a lot of animals and would much rather choose a location that would provide fish, venison and rabbit. This along with a sustainable vegetable plot and some foraging would give me all I'd need, like I say, it's a good dream.

I have located an area that could possibly provide enough for me to survive but I think the it would be a lot better to build my log/timber cabin and use it as a well needed retreat for a couple of weeks in the year.

Has anybody done this, I'd love a few pictures of other peoples retreats in the woods.

sheesh

Watch Ryder wrote: »

Legal responsibilities like registration of animals etc?

cows and the like need to be registered afaik especially if they are going into the food chain they all have to have ear tags so you need a herd number, they would also have to be slaughtered at a registered abbatoir (I THINK!)

I'd say you could keep rabbits and chickens for food easily enough to eat (rabbit is nice)

I am also thinking of an exit strategy, if it goes tits up and the op just wants to go back to city life getting rid of a cow would be alot easier if you could just sell it which you probably not do easily if it was not registered.

friend of mine woke up one morning and found 3 sheep in a field he owns within in 24 hours one was dead the other 2 were on their last legs

€75 per sheep is what he had to pay to get rid of them legally (rendering plant)

wolfeye

Smallholding information and resources here.

http://www.smallholding.ie/

Kiltris

How many people do you think it would take to have a small self sufficient community surviving in Ireland? Could 2 people do it successfully?

I find it hard to image the entire work load that would be involved, from harvesting firewood, vegetables, meat prep and storage, animal rearing and feeding etc.

Tabnabs

You'd be at it non-stop. You'd want a spread of skills; animal husbandry, firewood, plumbing, carpentry, welding, gardening, selling (farmers markets etc.), labouring, tech skills (youtube channel, blog, get your message out to the world and a few shekels back in return). 12v electrical.

And so on.

You need an income stream to cover your costs however small they may be.

mjv2ydratu679c

Tabnabs wrote: »

You'd be at it non-stop. You'd want a spread of skills; animal husbandry, firewood, plumbing, carpentry, welding, gardening, selling (farmers markets etc.), labouring, tech skills (youtube channel, blog, get your message out to the world and a few shekels back in return). 12v electrical.

And so on.

You need an income stream to cover your costs however small they may be.

Dole?

Tabnabs

If that's your solution then self sufficiency isn't your gig...

mjv2ydratu679c

Tabnabs wrote: »

If that's your solution then self sufficiency isn't your gig...

Thanks, I'll quit then

my3cents

Nathaniel Fast Table wrote: »

Thanks, I'll quit then

No don't do that, stick it out on your government sponsored self sufficiency course.

mjv2ydratu679c

my3cents wrote: »

No don't do that, stick it out on your government sponsored self sufficiency course.

haha love it lol.

eeguy

Presuming by self-sufficiency you mean having all the comforts of modern living and absolutely no outgoings.

I'd imagine you'd need substantial capital to get started, firstly your house would need to be insulated to the nines to be as passive as possible.
You'd need sufficient solar/wind generators and storage capacity.
You'd need sufficient land for farming and livestock.
You'd need a well.
You'd need the skills and cash to implement all the above.

I'd say its very doable. My parents are retiring to the country and we have plans to set them up in a similar manner to keep the bills down.

L1011

Nathaniel Fast Table wrote: »

Dole?

Youtube channel gets found, "did not make themselves available for work" gets stamped on the file and you're sent on every FAS course going for 40 hours a week a 4 hour bus trip away. Having a profile of any description on the dole doesn't work anymore.

mjv2ydratu679c

L1011 wrote: »

Youtube channel gets found, "did not make themselves available for work" gets stamped on the file and you're sent on every FAS course going for 40 hours a week a 4 hour bus trip away. Having a profile of any description on the dole doesn't work anymore.

I don't have a youtube channel (or ever intend to).

Graces7

My take on this.. I lived nine years on a small Orkney Island. I had hens, geese, ducks, peacocks, 2 Jacobs sheep and a goat. I never had to buy eggs or milk or cheese. I grew all my own vegetables also. Spun wool. For fuel, I bought peat. A load or three each year and of course had electricity. Flowers in abundance.. I eat little meat but the first years had a lamb from neighbours and sometimes fresh fish from another. It is a matter of degree is it not? And of some giving to the needs of others. Always had to but flour and coffee etc... Yes hard work but good in its own way. Now I do far less being older and less able and needing to use time and energy to help the basic needs of others. Self sufficiency can be too much self for me... when I first came to Ireland I had a poly tunnel and grew amazing veg... very little now but I eat less. Needs thinking through and not "just" from the practical.

Graces7

Thanks for this thread as it got me thinking! Really I still live as simply and as far from the more " civilised" aspects of modern life which is what i think folk are trying to attain. I live alone in a remote farmhouse. While I have the utilities is is on my terms to reduce contact with the hyped up world out there. Mo TV or radio and no phone anyone can contact me on. I rent and the house has a private water supply and else live very simply something I learned in island days when there was one boat a day weather permitting. I think living a while as i did then affects you and changes you. For some, they will as fast as possible leave that life in every way. For others, like me, we change how we live permanently. It is the attitude to life as much as the practicalities.. treasuring every resource and using everything, I gather all I can still.... not bought firewood ever; beaches for driftwood etc and wild fruit...

Graces7

L1011 wrote: »

Youtube channel gets found, "did not make themselves available for work" gets stamped on the file and you're sent on every FAS course going for 40 hours a week a 4 hour bus trip away. Having a profile of any description on the dole doesn't work anymore.

A pension works although being older can be a handicap!

Graces7

eeguy wrote: »

Presuming by self-sufficiency you mean having all the comforts of modern living and absolutely no outgoings.

I'd imagine you'd need substantial capital to get started, firstly your house would need to be insulated to the nines to be as passive as possible.
You'd need sufficient solar/wind generators and storage capacity.
You'd need sufficient land for farming and livestock.
You'd need a well.
You'd need the skills and cash to implement all the above.

I'd say its very doable. My parents are retiring to the country and we have plans to set them up in a similar manner to keep the bills down.

Wonder is it was ever seen as "all the comforts"? For me frugality and simplicity were the major part.

SNAKEDOC

If you go completely self sufficent ot as close as electricity is not my first issue id be concerned with. A makeshift wind turbine could be made with little fuss and a bank of batteries for less than €1000 and be quite effecient given our climate and abundance of wind. If your going self sufficent your not going to be inside all day watching telly making microwav popcorn charging your smart phone like a mad man cus your on twitter like an addict. Food and water would be my first priority and heat. A small farmstead in ireland would be my answer to this. Geowing your own food taising your own animals and as a farmers son its not rocket science. A wide range of crops which can make a profit if aild to your local buchers along with meat and the bucher can handle the killing and handling of the carcas's. So theres your food. Heat well buy an axe and keep your eye out for fallen trees or chop some down on your own land. Plant more too. Theres your heat. Water. Well all houses have roofs and a lot of water falls from the sky so harvest it and construct a biosand water filter and maybe fork out money for a ceramic filter too just to make sure and you have an unlimited supply if what you need. Then your onto power. As mentioned a wind turbine is probably best given the abundance of wind. A large bank if batteries that can be added to over time to run basics like water pumps lighting etc. a self sufficent farm type dwelling is very doable if you have the right mindset and a small bit of capital to get started.

Dial Hard

markushanke wrote:

Do you think it is possible to go completely off-grid and become self-sufficient to a high degree here in the wilds of Ireland.

Is anywhere in Ireland truly remote enough to go completely off-grid, though? I've often wondered this (usually while re-reading "The Zombie Survival Guide") and I usually come to the conclusion that the country is just too small - we just don't have any large, uninhabited areas.

Happy to be corrected if I'm wrong on this but really, is there anywhere in Ireland that you aren't within a 15 minute drive of another person?

my3cents

Dial Hard wrote: »

Is anywhere in Ireland truly remote enough to go completely off-grid, though? I've often wondered this (usually while re-reading "The Zombie Survival Guide") and I usually come to the conclusion that the country is just too small - we just don't have any large, uninhabited areas.

Happy to be corrected if I'm wrong on this but really, is there anywhere in Ireland that you aren't within a 15 minute drive of another person?

I think you can be self sufficient here and don't need to be 100's of miles from your nearest neighbor. We could easily not speak to anyone for months if we didn't want to. Its up to the individual as to the barriers they need between them and others. You could be self sufficient yet still sell produce at the farm gate and for that you'd want a passing trade.

Tactical

Another reason not to be too remote is one could barter with others.

Dial Hard

my3cents wrote:

I think you can be self sufficient here and don't need to be 100's of miles from your nearest neighbor. We could easily not speak to anyone for months if we didn't want to. Its up to the individual as to the barriers they need between them and others. You could be self sufficient yet still sell produce at the farm gate and for that you'd want a passing trade.

I was more thinking about the "completely off-grid" aspect that the OP mentioned.

Maybe I'm taking it too literally but to me off-grid means more than just being self-sufficient/not using state utilities.

eeguy

Dial Hard wrote: »

I was more thinking about the "completely off-grid" aspect that the OP mentioned.

Maybe I'm taking it too literally but to me off-grid means more than just being self-sufficient/not using state utilities.

You can be off grid and living in a town, provided you can supply all your own utilities.

Dial Hard

eeguy wrote: »

You can be off grid and living in a town, provided you can supply all your own utilities.

As I said, to me "completely off-grid" implies more than not using state utilities.

my3cents

Dial Hard wrote: »

As I said, to me "completely off-grid" implies more than not using state utilities.

People draw the line in different ways. For example you could go off fully equipped into the middle of nowhere be completely off grid yet have a full satellite TV and phone connections. Do you save up buy everything you need and then go self-sufficient or do you have to be born to it?

Just look at any recent documentary about nomadic tribes, you don't have too look far to see a satellite dish sticking out of a yurt in Mongolia for example. Yet I'm sure they are self-sufficient.

Then there is the question of do you live alone, a family group, a tribe or even in a commune? Self-sufficiency seems to work better at a tribal level but is that self-sufficiency?

Watch Ryder

Unless you own enough land with roaming wild game, a homestead, massive garden, livestock etc, a family of you totally committed to survivalism, preparedness, you will be committed to resupply.

Sh1tbag OToole

Dial Hard wrote: »

Is anywhere in Ireland truly remote enough to go completely off-grid, though? I've often wondered this (usually while re-reading "The Zombie Survival Guide") and I usually come to the conclusion that the country is just too small - we just don't have any large, uninhabited areas.

Happy to be corrected if I'm wrong on this but really, is there anywhere in Ireland that you aren't within a 15 minute drive of another person?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Owey_Island

my3cents

Sh1tbag OToole wrote: »

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Owey_Island

It fits the bill for being isolated but wouldn't be a first choice for me. I think with all those uninhabited but once inhabited islands there is a minimum number of people necessary for survival in isolation from the mainland. Once you drop below the necessary numbers there just isn't time in the day for the remainder to do everything they need to to survive.

Sh1tbag OToole

my3cents wrote: »

It fits the bill for being isolated but wouldn't be a first choice for me. I think with all those uninhabited but once inhabited islands there is a minimum number of people necessary for survival in isolation from the mainland. Once you drop below the necessary numbers there just isn't time in the day for the remainder to do everything they need to to survive.

There are plenty that have a fistfull of people but they might not necessarily be any good to you. You'd have to spend some time in those places to find out. You don't want to end up on a place like this : http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2005/sep/18/lornamartin.theobserver

drcortex1124

markushanke wrote: »

I know this is a question that is very wide in scope, but I would nonetheless like to get some perspectives from other members here.

Do you think it is possible to go completely off-grid and become self-sufficient to a high degree here in the wilds of Ireland, through a combination of foraging, planting and fishing ? I have been looking into a remote location in the mountains of Connemara, but I really do not know to what degree one could sustain oneself, as I am still missing knowledge of what edible plants/food items are actually available. Energy is not that much of an issue, as I believe it can be done quite well with a combination of solar, wind and water, at least on a small scale.

I am aware that complete self-sufficiency is probably not realistic, especially in terms of food, but I am wondering as to how independent one could really become. It's easy to have some romantic notion of living off the land, but in reality this is hard, and involves lots of daily labour, and in-depth knowledge of the environment here. Never mind the legal and logistical difficulties at the moment, I am just trying to get a feel for whether the overall concept would be workable in the more remote parts of Ireland.

Also, does anybody know of anyone who actually does live completely off-grid in the wild, anywhere here in Ireland ?

This is actually my wife and I's dream. We want to buy a small homestead. I want to use a combination of animal breeding and aquaponics to become self sufficient for food. Energy will come from solar/wind. We also want to have a borehole.

We know there are things we can't make ourselves, that's where her salary will come in.. I like to think of it as a gradual process. I plan to sell surplus eggs (duck and chicken), honey, fish and vegetables if possible but tbh it's probably not viable.. best keep them for yourselvesfor when all money goes back to being paper.

drcortex1124

my3cents wrote: »

People draw the line in different ways. For example you could go off fully equipped into the middle of nowhere be completely off grid yet have a full satellite TV and phone connections. Do you save up buy everything you need and then go self-sufficient or do you have to be born to it?

Just look at any recent documentary about nomadic tribes, you don't have too look far to see a satellite dish sticking out of a yurt in Mongolia for example. Yet I'm sure they are self-sufficient.

Then there is the question of do you live alone, a family group, a tribe or even in a commune? Self-sufficiency seems to work better at a tribal level but is that self-sufficiency?

I like you're thinking mate. Still the question for me would be : How did they get the satellite dish? Did they work for an employer or did they make something themselves and then trade it for cash/the dish itself?

my3cents

drcortex1124 wrote: »

I like you're thinking mate. Still the question for me would be : How did they get the satellite dish? Did they work for an employer or did they make something themselves and then trade it for cash/the dish itself?

Most of those nomadic tribes would trade in horses, camels, goats, sheep and other animals. Then there are plenty of hand made trade goods, from carpets to scarves.

my3cents

drcortex1124 wrote: »

This is actually my wife and I's dream. We want to buy a small homestead. I want to use a combination of animal breeding and aquaponics to become self sufficient for food. Energy will come from solar/wind. We also want to have a borehole.

We know there are things we can't make ourselves, that's where her salary will come in.. I like to think of it as a gradual process. I plan to sell surplus eggs (duck and chicken), honey, fish and vegetables if possible but tbh it's probably not viable.. best keep them for yourselvesfor when all money goes back to being paper.

If you can afford the house and some land then Ireland isn't a bad place to try. I made a joke about being on a government sponsored scheme earlier but no harm in getting whatever you can from the state and with a low wage/income I see no reason not to apply for a medical card.

Being self-sufficient is also a mind set, but one that should't be too rigid. Do you get a machine in to do a job and pay a guy or do you do without for years while you do the job yourself for free.

Once you have a paid for house with suitable land and whatever off grid stuff you need then I'm sure you could get by on a very low income.

hydro1

I have been dreaming about this for years but children and commitments have gotten in the way. I think it can be possible but society in Ireland is constantly drawing you in with things like property tax and other payments which mean some sort of income is required.

I think that the site selected is very important, it must be of the correct size and ideally with water and have a good elevation without being overly windy which may prevent plant growth. And within a commutable distance to a town is necessary.

I don't think single site communities work as often egos get in the way so it would be better to be alone, one way I have often thought about would be to have a home which offers short term accommodations to others for help/work or payment which might keep the wolf from the door. .

RezwoK

Guys

You all should check out "Kerry alternative technology" - Google it.

3 wind turbines, 3 water turbines, a solar panel array, batteries and inverters all electricity is made on site. Hydraulic ram’s pump 6000 litres of water a day to provide irrigation for two vegetable gardens and two polytunnels all run on strictly organic lines.

There’s a 5 pond reed bed system that deals with the grey water waste. There are chickens and goats at the centre, who help make compost.

Tours and courses are provided. Plenty of people involved there 'living off the Grid"

sheesh

RezwoK wrote: »

Guys

You all should check out "Kerry alternative technology" - Google it.

3 wind turbines, 3 water turbines, a solar panel array, batteries and inverters all electricity is made on site. Hydraulic ram’s pump 6000 litres of water a day to provide irrigation for two vegetable gardens and two polytunnels all run on strictly organic lines.

There’s a 5 pond reed bed system that deals with the grey water waste. There are chickens and goats at the centre, who help make compost.

Tours and courses are provided. Plenty of people involved there 'living off the Grid"

Are they still going? I went down to them a few years ago for a photography project it was very cool.