How long to present materials to a guard station

allibastor

Hi All,
quick question,

I was pulled over today for running a red light, Turing a corner as the light went red.

Question is, I have only bought the car in the last few weeks, so I have no change of ownership form back yet.

I have not put new car insurance on this car, but I do have a policy in my other car.

I have been asked to drop my details, Tax, insurance and licence into my local station as I got a caution from the guard who pulled me. She was sound.

will I get in trouble as I dont have the tax or insurance for my new car today, if I get them sorted over the weekend?

I am panicked now as I have never been in motor trouble and just bad luck that I have a new car( not new, but new to me) and am still awaiting documents.
I rang the department of motor vehicles who said the car is in my name, just waiting documents to be posted.

Thanks.

HeidiHeidi

You need to produce documents that cover your driving today, when you were stopped, not some policy that you intend taking out in a few days' time.

You have ten days to produce them.

You should have the tax disc in that time, and whatever insurance covered you today is what you should produce.

sKeith

within 10 days at the station you nominated to guard who stopped you

Special Circumstances

allibastor wrote: »

Question is, I have only bought the car in the last few weeks, so I have no change of ownership form back yet.

I have not put new car insurance on this car, but I do have a policy in my other car.

I rang the department of motor vehicles who said the car is in my name,

coylemj

When you transfer your insurance, you will get a new cert. which will show a start date and time so the new cert will not cover you to drive that car at the time you were stopped.

Technically you were not insured because having bought the car, you are now the owner (regardless of whether the change of ownership had been registered in Shannon or not) and your 'driving other cars cover' will not apply since one of the exclusions is if you own the car, it's designed to only cover borrowed cars owned by other people.

Produce the old cert and see what happens, the new cert will not cover the time you were stopped.

I don't like it when people get on high horses in threads on boards but seriously - you bought a car 'in the last few weeks' and still haven't sorted out the insurance? Get it into your head - you are not insured to drive that car.

allibastor

coylemj wrote: »

When you transfer your insurance, you will get a new cert. which will show a start date and time so the new cert will not cover you to drive that car at the time you were stopped.

Technically you were not insured because having bought the car, you are now the owner (regardless of whether the change of ownership had been registered in Shannon or not) and your 'driving other cars cover' will not apply since one of the exclusions is if you own the car, it's designed to only cover borrowed cars owned by other people.

Produce the old cert and see what happens, the new cert will not cover the time you were stopped.

I don't like it when people get on high horses in threads on boards but seriously - you bought a car 'in the last few weeks' and still haven't sorted out the insurance? Get it into your head - you are not insured to drive that car.

Am, not sure what high horse your on about.
I didnt know you could insure the car fully in your name before the ownership was changed

sKeith

For future reference, you can and should. (insure yourself on just purchased car. test drives are usally covered as its not your car check your policy.)
Present your insurance cert, for your other vehicle. and all the correct items otherwise.
They'll write all the stuff presented into the book.
It might be enough so that you don't get a summons, maybe not. (for you, hopefully it will be enough) now go get yourself legal before driving that car again.

mgbgt1978

The only reason the Guard was "sound" was that she simply couldn't be bothered arguing with you on the day.
She knew that you were going to be prosecuted for non-display of Insurance & Driving without Insurance ( and a possible Careless Driving) at a later date, so no point in her having a rant at you.

This is assuming you told her the same information you gave in your original post.


No matter which Insurance Cert you produce neither will cover you for driving this car at the time you were stopped.

Toyotafanboi

allibastor wrote: »

Am, not sure what high horse your on about.
I didnt know you could insure the car fully in your name before the ownership was changed

what did you think happened if you crashed in the first fortnight?

mel123

allibastor wrote: »

Am, not sure what high horse your on about.
I didnt know you could insure the car fully in your name before the ownership was changed

Oh come on, so you thought it was ok to drive uninsured because you didnt bother changing the ownership of the car?
Im getting on my high horse because last year someone uninsured crashed in to me.

Your in for a summons to court for having no insurance, and with the way insurance has gone up lately because of false claims and uninsured drivers, i dont think it will be taken very well. You'll receive 5 penalty points along with your fine, and your insurance will go up....a lot.

coylemj

allibastor wrote: »

Am, not sure what high horse your on about.
I didnt know you could insure the car fully in your name before the ownership was changed

The change of ownership in Shannon is not the same as the legal ownership.

Once you pay the seller and he hands you the keys, you own the car. That means that your policy as it stands will not cover you to drive it.

This is how it works......

You hand over the cash, now you own the car, then you immediately phone your insurance company, ask for a permanent change of car, give them the reg. no. and c.c. of the new car and ask them to confirm that you are covered to drive it. Now you drive away and you're covered.

allibastor

coylemj wrote: »

The change of ownership in Shannon is not the same as the legal ownership.

Once you pay the seller and he hands you the keys, you own the car. That means that your policy as it stands will not cover you to drive it.

This is how it works......

You hand over the cash, now you own the car, then you immediately phone your insurance company, ask for a permanent change of car, give them the reg. no. and c.c. of the new car and ask them to confirm that you are covered to drive it. Now you drive away and you're covered.

Cheers, i will know for future

MuppetCheck

allibastor wrote: »

Am, not sure what high horse your on about.
I didnt know you could insure the car fully in your name before the ownership was changed

Do you think all those shiney new 161s are going about uninsured as their certs are not back yet? Seriously, its so easy to do that there's no excuse.

Best you can do is produce your cert and pray that the guard wasn't overly bothered by you and it gets forgotten about as if not you could be screwed. It's a lesson learned, hopefully not the hard way.

allibastor

MuppetCheck wrote: »

Do you think all those shiney new 161s are going about uninsured as their certs are not back yet? Seriously, its so easy to do that there's no excuse.

Best you can do is produce your cert and pray that the guard wasn't overly bothered by you and it gets forgotten about as if not you could be screwed. It's a lesson learned, hopefully not the hard way.

See, i genuinly thought that if you have insurance on 1 car which has the cover to drive others it would cover you so long as car wasnt in your name.

Its niave but last time i got à new car i didnt drive or insure it till i had everything back.

mgbgt1978

Did you push it home ??????;)


Only joking. keep us posted on how you get on with the latest episode.

allibastor

mgbgt1978 wrote: »

Did you push it home ??????;)


Only joking. keep us posted on how you get on with the latest episode.

No thé first car was driven back by my dad.i didnt want to drive it over no insurance, ironically😊

allibastor

Just to follow on this.

I had to order new certs and presented them.guard on duty took copies and gave me back a form signed that i produced and insurance was present.

Is that the end then, or will the documents be rechecked again after presentation

mgbgt1978

Depends on the original Guard.
It's her choice whether or not to charge you for driving without insurance.

Really all you can do is wait and see.....

savagethegoat

as someone said, the Gard quite probably intends to prosecute you for not being insured. She is following procedure by asking you to produce the documents, but if you told her what you have told us, she knows you cannot produce a valid cert and most likely will summons you when that happens. If she doesn't you will be very fortunate....you'll just have to wait and see now.

allibastor

mgbgt1978 wrote: »

Depends on the original Guard.
It's her choice whether or not to charge you for driving without insurance.

Really all you can do is wait and see.....

Would it be a good idea to bring the presentation form and insurance certs up to the origional guard

allibastor

savagethegoat wrote: »

as someone said, the Gard quite probably intends to prosecute you for not being insured. She is following procedure by asking you to produce the documents, but if you told her what you have told us, she knows you cannot produce a valid cert and most likely will summons you when that happens. If she doesn't you will be very fortunate....you'll just have to wait and see now.

If the form was signed That i did produce a cert?
The form i got today is signed with a yes on the insurance section.
Just unsure how it works, does the station guard need to sign that it wasnt produced

coylemj

allibastor wrote: »

Would it be a good idea to bring the presentation form and insurance certs up to the origional guard

You were stopped on January 15th, the day you started this thread. What starting date was on that insurance cert. you produced? You said today that you had to 'order new certs' - was it the new insurance cert. you produced - one that I assume has a starting date after Jan 15th?

If it was then the new cert will simply prove that you were not insured to drive that recently purchased car on the day. She pulled you over for crashing a red light and she made a note of your details, now she can add no insurance to the red light offence. Realistically I think you're screwed. If and when you get summonsed for no insurance and crashing a red light, I'd be briefing a solicitor. Don't for one minute think of going to court to answer a summons for no insurance without a solicitor.

allibastor

coylemj wrote: »

You were stopped on January 15th, the day you started this thread. What starting date was on that insurance cert. you produced? You said today that you had to 'order new certs' - was it the new insurance cert. you produced - one that I assume has a starting date after Jan 15th?

If it was then the new cert will simply prove that you were not insured to drive that recently purchased car on the day. She pulled you over for crashing a red light and she made a note of your details, now she can add no insurance to the red light offence. Realistically I think you're screwed. If and when you get summonsed for no insurance and crashing a red light, I'd be briefing a solicitor. Don't for one minute think of going to court to answer a summons for no insurance without a solicitor.

The starting date on insurance is 15th also.
On the light issue, i was given a caution at road side due to light being yellow as i crossed the walk margin, but red before completing the turn.

I can accept the no insurance bit,it was a genuine mistake on my part, ignorance is no defence and i fixed what i could as soon as i could.

I was asking about was whats happens once you produce and get a signed form back from the station.

Tigger

summons i'm afraid what time on the 15th is on the cert ?
yellow (orange) means stop unless it is unsafe to stop

coylemj

allibastor wrote: »

I was asking about was whats happens once you produce and get a signed form back from the station.

You do nothing. That piece of paper is for people who do produce a valid cert and who get summonsed by mistake - they bring that form to the District Court to get the 'failing to produce' summons dismissed.

Squatman

if you have a form signed by the guards stating you produced insurance, then everything is rosie (provided you told that guard that stopped you that you are covered by insurance) for future reference, you would probably have lost your licence for driving without insurance...

allibastor

Tigger wrote: »

summons i'm afraid what time on the 15th is on the cert ?
yellow (orange) means stop unless it is unsafe to stop

Time is after i was stopped.so i can say that will cause issue.

It may sound stupid, but i went throigh light cause car behind me, guarda car, was up my backside coming to the lights

testicle

allibastor wrote: »

Am, not sure what high horse your on about.
I didnt know you could insure the car fully in your name before the ownership was changed

Well you're about to get banned from driving for several months, as well as a large fine, for your lack of knowledge.

allibastor

coylemj wrote: »

You do nothing. That piece of paper is for people who do produce a valid cert and who get summonsed by mistake - they bring that form to the District Court to get the 'failing to produce' summons dismissed.

Would i not have gotten that form if they were not happy?

katkin

If he was about to get a summons, fine etc would the guard at the station not have said or be obliged to say? Sounds like he has had a lucky escape to me

allibastor

testicle wrote: »

Well you're about to get banned from driving for several months, as well as a large fine, for your lack of knowledge.

Thanks.
First time offence has a fine of 1500 and 5 points at max. Ban is not automatic.

coylemj

allibastor wrote: »

Would i not have gotten that form if they were not happy?

It depends on what they asked you and what you told them. It's a long time since I was asked to produce and when I last did, they didn't give you a piece of paper to certify that you had produced.

Q1. Did the Garda in the station ask you what date you were stopped?

Q2. Is there a starting time along with the date on the insurance cert? If there is and it's not a minute after midnight, they will probably have noted it when you produced.

The Garda who stopped you will enquire as to whether you produced in that station and she will get the details of your insurance, you do not have to go to her with that piece of paper.

Arbiter of Good Taste

coylemj wrote: »

The change of ownership in Shannon is not the same as the legal ownership.

Once you pay the seller and he hands you the keys, you own the car. That means that your policy as it stands will not cover you to drive it.

This is how it works......

You hand over the cash, now you own the car, then you immediately phone your insurance company, ask for a permanent change of car, give them the reg. no. and c.c. of the new car and ask them to confirm that you are covered to drive it. Now you drive away and you're covered.

Actually, I've always rung the insurance company up before picking up the car, paid any extra, and told them the day and time I was picking up the new car. So I've been insured driving out of the forecourt

coylemj

Arbiter of Good Taste wrote: »

Actually, I've always rung the insurance company up before picking up the car, paid any extra, and told them the day and time I was picking up the new car. So I've been insured driving out of the forecourt

That's been well covered at this stage, the OP now knows he should have done as you say.

allibastor

coylemj wrote: »

It depends on what they asked you and what you told them. It's a long time since I was asked to produce and when I last did, they didn't give you a piece of paper to certify that you had produced.

Q1. Did the Garda in the station ask you what date you were stopped?

Q2. Is there a starting time along with the date on the insurance cert? If there is and it's not a minute after midnight, they will probably have noted it when you produced.

The Garda who stopped you will enquire as to whether you produced in that station and she will get the details of your insurance, you do not have to go to her with that piece of paper.

Thanks.

Yes i was asked time and date of being stopped,and it states i transfered the insurance on the same day, but 4 hours later.
I thougt that myself about the times, but wanted to ask.

allibastor

Arbiter of Good Taste wrote: »

Actually, I've always rung the insurance company up before picking up the car, paid any extra, and told them the day and time I was picking up the new car. So I've been insured driving out of the forecourt

Hey, thanks. Beleive me i will know for the future...
I will also in future let anyone behind me at a light rear end me instead of going through la light again

slimjimmc

katkin wrote: »

If he was about to get a summons, fine etc would the guard at the station not have said or be obliged to say? Sounds like he has had a lucky escape to me

No, there's no obligation on a Garda to tell you if you're going to be summoned. Also the Garda on desk duty may know nothing about the case and even if he did he may still have to investigate to confirm the policy was active at the time the OP was stopped.
A cert isn't actual proof of an active policy, just that a policy was taken out at a certain time.

allibastor wrote: »

Thanks.

Yes i was asked time and date of being stopped,and it states i transfered the insurance on the same day, but 4 hours later.
I thougt that myself about the times, but wanted to ask.

The time is important because it indicates you were not insured at the time you were stopped. Expect a prosecution for driving without insurance.

allibastor

All I can do at this stage then is just wait and see what happens.

Yes, for future I will know that if you buy a car the first call you make is to the insurance company, but no help to me now! At least if it comes up again in the future I will know.

Thanks for the info thus far anyway, I will just see what the outcome is!
I did produce everything I had, I dont want anyone to think I was just joyriding around without anything to cover me, it was just a genuine lack of understanding of the insurance cover system.

Thanks!

Henry Ford III

allibastor wrote: »

Would i not have gotten that form if they were not happy?

The form you got confirmed that you produced documents, but didn't confirm that they were in order.

I'd say a few Hail Mary's (or similar) if I were you. Your excuse unfortunately is as weak as wet ricepaper.

p.s. In both yourself and your dad had 3rd party extensions you could have driven his car, and he yours on the night in question.

ezra_

Henry Ford III wrote: »

p.s. In both yourself and your dad had 3rd party extensions you could have driven his car, and he yours on the night in question.

Are you sure about this?

The new car has no insurance on it, does this not preclude people using their 'other car' cover?

Henry Ford III

ezra_ wrote: »

Are you sure about this?

The new car has no insurance on it, does this not preclude people using their 'other car' cover?

As always it depends on the t's and c's of the respective policies.

coylemj

ezra_ wrote: »

Are you sure about this?

The new car has no insurance on it, does this not preclude people using their 'other car' cover?

Urban myth, comes up again and again and is not true. No Irish insurance company includes that condition in their policies. If you have 'driving other cars' on your own policy and borrow your neighbour's car, you will be covered regardless of whether the neighbour has a policy on the car or not. The only condition that attaches to such cover is that you are not hiring the car and you don't own it, nobody says that the car has to have it's own policy.

What HF3 proposed is valid.

allibastor

Henry Ford III wrote: »

The form you got confirmed that you produced documents, but didn't confirm that they were in order.

I'd say a few Hail Mary's (or similar) if I were you. Your excuse unfortunately is as weak as wet ricepaper.

p.s. In both yourself and your dad had 3rd party extensions you could have driven his car, and he yours on the night in question.

Thanks, It was about 6 years ago. I didnt have insurance so once I bought the car he drove it home and I waited the 3 weeks until the change form to come before I taxed and insured it!