radiators at front of house not as warm as ones at back (upstairs)

micks_address

Hi Folks,

For a while now, our radiators upstairs - the 3 at the back of the house get really warm with the central heating (gas) but the ones at the front font. To get the two in the rooms at the front working at all we have had to turn down the back rads to almost off - then the front ones heat up but still not nearly enough. It seems like some sort of balance or pressure thing! There is no issue downstairs.

There doesn't seem to be air in the rads as I've bled them but even when bleeding you don't get the same sort of pressure as you do from the other rads.

I'm going to get a plumber to check it out soon but anyone have any obviously suggestions?

Cheers,
Mick

sky6

have you checked to see if there are any Valves closed anywhere, especially in the hot press. Also check the pipework either side of the Valves as a valve could be stuck especially if you have any Motorised valves. Is the Circulating Pump working properly.?
If it's an old system then you might need a power flush.

RCSATELLITES

Sounds like your system is not balanced. You need to turn all your lockshield valves to a quarter turn open. Then maybe open the lockshield more on the radiators that are not as hot. The radiators closer to the boiler only open slightly and the ones further away open more.

Jen44

Ive the same problem some of my rads are really hot and others are luke warm. We only bought the house at the end of last year and its a really old looking oil boiler. I want to get plumber out but im not sure whether i should ask them to flush or balance the rads. Im kind of thinking if i ask them to flush it and they only need to be balanced that they may just go ahead and flush it anyway?? Or maybe I should just get it flushed as i said it is an old system and we cant really afford to replace it at the moment. The house was vacant for a year before we moved in I dont know if that makes a difference? Any advise??

Wearb

The previous replies are more likely to be nearer the mark, but I have found that the first thing (correctly) checked is the rads for air.
On sealed systems this often reduces system pressure to the point that you get upstairs rads giving trouble. So always check system pressure after bleeding.

RCSATELLITES

Jen44 wrote: »

Ive the same problem some of my rads are really hot and others are luke warm. We only bought the house at the end of last year and its a really old looking oil boiler. I want to get plumber out but im not sure whether i should ask them to flush or balance the rads. Im kind of thinking if i ask them to flush it and they only need to be balanced that they may just go ahead and flush it anyway?? Or maybe I should just get it flushed as i said it is an old system and we cant really afford to replace it at the moment. The house was vacant for a year before we moved in I dont know if that makes a difference? Any advise??

Why don't you try and balance the system yourself and if that does not work then get a plumber.

A radiator usually has two valves or openings. One that you can twist to turn it on or off (usually the left side but not always) and then the lockshield valve for balancing it. This usually has a white cap on it that is just a cover and can't be twisted.

Remove this cover and that is the lockshield valve. Usually on the rads that are not getting hot enough you will have to have the lockshield valve nearly closed.

Why dont you try in on one radiator and see what happens.

So take off the white cap cover and you will see the lockshield valve. The best way to turn this is with the other white cap from the left side of the radiator, just pop that up and place in on the lockshield valve. Now you can turn it without using any tools. Turn the lockshield valve clockwise, (usually towards the wall the radiator is hung on). Clockwise will close it. So close it fully and then turn it back 1/4 turn. Check if this radiator get hotter now.

1/4 turn is like from 12 to 3 on a clock.

Hot water travels through the radiators. What you are trying to do is slow down the process so the water takes longer to flow through and therefore heats the radiator more.

Let us know how you get on.

Jen44

The rads are very old I'm not sure which one is which

image.jpeg

image.jpg

RCSATELLITES

Jen44 wrote: »

The rads are very old I'm not sure which one is which

image.jpeg

image.jpg

Both picture are the same? or am I doing something wrong.

The one in the picture is on/off so you need to adjust the opposite side.

micks_address

RCSATELLITES wrote: »

Both picture are the same? or am I doing something wrong.

The one in the picture is on/off so you need to adjust the opposite side.

I had plumber around the other day.. He tried balancing the rads but no joy.. He coming back next week to start investigation.. The pipes into the rads at front get really hot but the rads only Luke warm..

RCSATELLITES

micks_address wrote: »

I had plumber around the other day.. He tried balancing the rads but no joy.. He coming back next week to start investigation.. The pipes into the rads at front get really hot but the rads only Luke warm..

That's weird alright, hopefully you get it sorted. Let us know what the problem was, when you get it fixed.

Thanks

micks_address

RCSATELLITES wrote: »

That's weird alright, hopefully you get it sorted. Let us know what the problem was, when you get it fixed.

Thanks

We have gun barrel apparently teed at hot press.. Runs forward to a manifold where 3/8 th pipes run to rads. My father recommended getting new half inch run to rads altogether when at it. Thinking maybe of replacing the rad in the smaller room for a larger one..

Jen44

Sorry for some reason it keeps just showing two of the same pics don't know why?! Anyway I don't think the one in the photos is the on off one coz it doesn't turn? The other side is fatter and it turns easily plus it says on and an arrow on it so I guess that's the on off one! However I don't know how would I turn the one in the photo it has like a screw on the top

micks_address

Hi folks,

Did some dismantling today. Picture is of the hotpress. Gun barell flow and return come up from downstairs. Both pipes are t'd running gunbarrell pipes to the front rads and back to the back rads.

What I'm planning on asking the plumber to do is replace the gunbarrell in front rooms, run copper back to the cylinder.

Is the a plumbing fitting that will screw into the gunbarrell t and allow connect of copper pipes?

Cheers,
Mick

Robbie.G

micks_address wrote: »

Hi folks,

Did some dismantling today. Picture is of the hotpress. Gun barell flow and return come up from downstairs. Both pipes are t'd running gunbarrell pipes to the front rads and back to the back rads.

What I'm planning on asking the plumber to do is replace the gunbarrell in front rooms, run copper back to the cylinder.

Is the a plumbing fitting that will screw into the gunbarrell t and allow connect of copper pipes?

Cheers,
Mick

Yes Mick you can get iron thread to copper fittings
Any half decent plumber will know how to adapt the gun Barrell to copper

micks_address

Robbie.G wrote: »

Yes Mick you can get iron thread to copper fittings
Any half decent plumber will know how to adapt the gun Barrell to copper

Thanks looks like it going to be very awkward spot to work...

Robbie.G

micks_address wrote: »

Thanks looks like it going to be very awkward spot to work...

No body said it was going to be easy but if it was easy everybody would be doing it

micks_address

Robbie.G wrote: »

No body said it was going to be easy but if it was easy everybody would be doing it

Well at least I've got the floor access ready...

micks_address

micks_address wrote: »

Well at least I've got the floor access ready...

Hi folks,
Update on this. Plumber has replaced two rads upstairs and fitted valve on cylinder to help flow. Still not heating from two rads or cylinder properly. He's flushed the pipes and water flowing freely. At a loss really to know what to do next. He says the system flow is backwards that all heat is going in though the gated valves on the rads ie not the trv.. So he going to attempt to switch the flow direction and install a new circulation pump Thursday... After that not sure what to do

Dtp1979

micks_address wrote: »

Hi folks,
Update on this. Plumber has replaced two rads upstairs and fitted valve on cylinder to help flow. Still not heating from two rads or cylinder properly. He's flushed the pipes and water flowing freely. At a loss really to know what to do next. He says the system flow is backwards that all heat is going in though the gated valves on the rads ie not the trv.. So he going to attempt to switch the flow direction and install a new circulation pump Thursday... After that not sure what to do

How did he flush the pipes?

micks_address

Dtp1979 wrote: »

How did he flush the pipes?

I don't know.. I wasn't at home... He has a pump for it I think.. Seems like for some reason water doesn't want to flow to front two rads upstairs

micks_address

micks_address wrote: »

I don't know.. I wasn't at home... He has a pump for it I think.. Seems like for some reason water doesn't want to flow to front two rads upstairs

Update again.. Plumber fitted new pump.. No difference.. Then he switched flow of pipes from the boiler. This did the trick and all upstairs rads flying.. Trouble is now we have one rad downstairs next to the boiler that isn't heating any more.. He's coming back again

micks_address

micks_address wrote: »

Update again.. Plumber fitted new pump.. No difference.. Then he switched flow of pipes from the boiler. This did the trick and all upstairs rads flying.. Trouble is now we have one rad downstairs next to the boiler that isn't heating any more.. He's coming back again

the last rad downstairs accidentally got bypassed when plumber changed direction of pipes from boiler... he back next week and that should be the end of it

Dtp1979

micks_address wrote: »

the last rad downstairs accidentally got bypassed when plumber changed direction of pipes from boiler... he back next week and that should be the end of it

?????????????????????

hatchman

micks_address wrote:

the last rad downstairs accidentally got bypassed when plumber changed direction of pipes from boiler... he back next week and that should be the end of it

Did he not check if all rads were heating after changing direction of flow before leaving
?

micks_address

hatchman wrote: »

Did he not check if all rads were heating after changing direction of flow before leaving
?

He was rushed I'm fairness... Long drawn out episode that I'll be glad to see back off

micks_address

micks_address wrote: »

He was rushed I'm fairness... Long drawn out episode that I'll be glad to see back off

All connected up again but two rads upstairs still not right.. The coil on the cylinder has a valve on it.. If this is opened more than a couple of turns the two front rads won't heat at all.. With the valve nearly closed the rads heat well at the top but the bottom remains cold.. It's still not right in my mind at spent a fair whack on it.. Kinda stumped what to do at this stage. I wasn't here when plumber re connected rad on Friday so will give him a call tomorrow. Fed up with it now

Dtp1979

micks_address wrote: »

All connected up again but two rads upstairs still not right.. The coil on the cylinder has a valve on it.. If this is opened more than a couple of turns the two front rads won't heat at all.. With the valve nearly closed the rads heat well at the top but the bottom remains cold.. It's still not right in my mind at spent a fair whack on it.. Kinda stumped what to do at this stage. I wasn't here when plumber re connected rad on Friday so will give him a call tomorrow. Fed up with it now

You either have pipework too small, pump set too low or need a powerflush

micks_address

Dtp1979 wrote: »

You either have pipework too small, pump set too low or need a powerflush

Pipework to new rads is all half inch was 3 / 8. New pump was installed it's set to 'modulating'? mode so it's supposed to figure out the speed itself? I don't think it needs a flush as plumber pumped water through all pipes and no blockages.. The thing with turning down circulation through cylinder is I feel the water in the taps isn't as hot as should be.
Thanks
Mick

Dtp1979

micks_address wrote: »

Pipework to new rads is all half inch was 3 / 8. New pump was installed it's set to 'modulating'? mode so it's supposed to figure out the speed itself? I don't think it needs a flush as plumber pumped water through all pipes and no blockages.. The thing with turning down circulation through cylinder is I feel the water in the taps isn't as hot as should be.
Thanks
Mick

Putting a garden hose onto a pipe and turning on a tap proves nothing. Flushing properly will clear your pipework and rads. The pipe dosent need to be blocked totally. It could be sludged up which causes massive restriction to heat circulation. Maybe it's time to get another plumber in as this guy seems to be struggling with a simple issue like this

micks_address

Dtp1979 wrote: »

Putting a garden hose onto a pipe and turning on a tap proves nothing. Flushing properly will clear your pipework and rads. The pipe dosent need to be blocked totally. It could be sludged up which causes massive restriction to heat circulation. Maybe it's time to get another plumber in as this guy seems to be struggling with a simple issue like this

Thanks it's getting a bit annoying alright.. Out over 1k and apart from having two shiny new rads do seem to have progressed much

micks_address

micks_address wrote: »

Thanks it's getting a bit annoying alright.. Out over 1k and apart from having two shiny new rads do seem to have progressed much

I actually think the system needs proper balancing.. I played around with the valve on the coil and turning down the valves on the troublesome rads and they are behaving much better.. The water in the taps is as hit as I remember also.. Anyone know a plumber really good at balancing a system?
North county Dublin
Thanks
Mick

Dtp1979

micks_address wrote: »

I actually think the system needs proper balancing.. I played around with the valve on the coil and turning down the valves on the troublesome rads and they are behaving much better.. The water in the taps is as hit as I remember also.. Anyone know a plumber really good at balancing a system?
North county Dublin
Thanks
Mick

Pm sent

micks_address

Dtp1979 wrote: »

Pm sent

Thanks ill need to save up and get it done properly. Might wait now till September as the weather getting milder anyways
Cheers
Mick

micks_address

micks_address wrote: »

Thanks ill need to save up and get it done properly. Might wait now till September as the weather getting milder anyways
Cheers
Mick

While I save up for another plumber.. I have a question re modulating circulation pumps. I've nearly fully closed all the return valves on all the rads bar the two new upstairs. The valve on the cylinder is also only half a turn open. Result is hot water and mad hot radiators apart from the new two. They are mad hot apart from the bottom couple of inches where they are noticeably cooler. The pipes on both from the return valves are noticeably colder than the in flows.. I closed the return valves to about two thirds and it helps but still don't feel like they 100%. Maybe 85%

I know when the plumber fitted the circulation pump he left it in self modulating mode.. Would it help to put it on a fixed setting?

I'll get someone in to check when can afford to again

Cheers
Mick

Dtp1979

micks_address wrote: »

While I save up for another plumber.. I have a question re modulating circulation pumps. I've nearly fully closed all the return valves on all the rads bar the two new upstairs. The valve on the cylinder is also only half a turn open. Result is hot water and mad hot radiators apart from the new two. They are mad hot apart from the bottom couple of inches where they are noticeably cooler. The pipes on both from the return valves are noticeably colder than the in flows.. I closed the return valves to about two thirds and it helps but still don't feel like they 100%. Maybe 85%

I know when the plumber fitted the circulation pump he left it in self modulating mode.. Would it help to put it on a fixed setting?

I'll get someone in to check when can afford to again

Cheers
Mick

Yes put it on fixed speed. Higher if your system allows it without drawing in air or pitching in the attic tank

micks_address

Dtp1979 wrote: »

Yes put it on fixed speed. Higher if your system allows it without drawing in air or pitching in the attic tank

Thanks - ive turned it to top speed for the moment. Didn't really get much of a chance to test last night. Had heat on for 20 minutes and rads heated up etc but still felt last two on the line were slow..

Would you reckon the last two rads on the line would function better with the lockshield valves full open or almost closed?

Almost closed is slowing down the flow and giving more time for the rad to heat? Or would it be restricting flow to much and not allow the rad to heat?

With them fully open before altering pump speed the bottom of the rads are colder than the top... closing them seemed to help..

I don't think this is a sludge issue as when the plumber accidentally bypassed the first rad (also the biggest in the house) the rads all were piping hot.. I have this first rad just opened a fraction at the moment..

Pain the backside really

Cheers,
Mick

Dtp1979

micks_address wrote: »

Thanks - ive turned it to top speed for the moment. Didn't really get much of a chance to test last night. Had heat on for 20 minutes and rads heated up etc but still felt last two on the line were slow..

Would you reckon the last two rads on the line would function better with the lockshield valves full open or almost closed?

Almost closed is slowing down the flow and giving more time for the rad to heat? Or would it be restricting flow to much and not allow the rad to heat?

With them fully open before altering pump speed the bottom of the rads are colder than the top... closing them seemed to help..

I don't think this is a sludge issue as when the plumber accidentally bypassed the first rad (also the biggest in the house) the rads all were piping hot.. I have this first rad just opened a fraction at the moment..

Pain the backside really

Cheers,
Mick

God I'm not sure what's going on to be honest at this stage. If it's piped correctly, and no sludge, then any rad that's struggling to heat should only benifit from having both valves fully open.

micks_address

Dtp1979 wrote: »

God I'm not sure what's going on to be honest at this stage. If it's piped correctly, and no sludge, then any rad that's struggling to heat should only benifit from having both valves fully open.

Thanks yeah its very frustrating.. even more so having paid a load of cash and it still not right

Ill keep playing around with the valves on the last two rads and see how i get on.. probably cant do much harm anyway.. pretty much every other rad is closed to the point where they only opened half a turn.. if i close them any more can start to hear the water pressure in them..

i want to replace a rad in the kitchen (too small) later in the year so at that point will get a new plumber in

Cheers,
Mick

ct5amr2ig1nfhp

@micks_address sorry to jump in on your thread. We have a similar issue with a couple of rads not heating up like the other rads. We've had a plumber look at it and the last attempt to fix the problem was to balance the system,. Unfortunately, the problem still remains.

Could any give a guesstimate to get a heating system flushed properly?? It's a standard 3 bed semi detached house.

Dtp1979

Mohamed Victorious Priest wrote: »

@micks_address sorry to jump in on your thread. We have a similar issue with a couple of rads not heating up like the other rads. We've had a plumber look at it and the last attempt to fix the problem was to balance the system,. Unfortunately, the problem still remains.

Could any give a guesstimate to get a heating system flushed properly?? It's a standard 3 bed semi detached house.

To get it done properly, and by properly I mean using a good machine like fernox or kamco, good chemicals like fernox, sentinel, kamco or adey, you'd be looking at 450ish. Ask whoever you're getting quoted from the following:
What machine do you use
What chemicals do you use
How long will it take

ct5amr2ig1nfhp

One last question Dtp1979, there is a small leak in the system somewhere and a friend mentioned a chemical that could be added to seal the leak. Can this be done at the same time? Thanks!

Dtp1979

Mohamed Victorious Priest wrote: »

One last question Dtp1979, there is a small leak in the system somewhere and a friend mentioned a chemical that could be added to seal the leak. Can this be done at the same time? Thanks!

Ideally find the leak. If it cant be found then yes, use a leak sealer like oxypic, but only after the system has been flushed

micks_address

micks_address wrote: »

Thanks yeah its very frustrating.. even more so having paid a load of cash and it still not right

Ill keep playing around with the valves on the last two rads and see how i get on.. probably cant do much harm anyway.. pretty much every other rad is closed to the point where they only opened half a turn.. if i close them any more can start to hear the water pressure in them..

i want to replace a rad in the kitchen (too small) later in the year so at that point will get a new plumber in

Cheers,
Mick

Ltd

Just to close this out. After the summer our two front rads were stone cold.. Plumber back again.. Very frustrating... Last hope was return from rads at front my be blocked at t on flow back to boiler... Turns out he was right. He flushed it up and down and got lots of gunk out of it... Result is system is now perfect.. We have full heat in new rads and everywhere else.. He suggested we look at adding magnet filter to system which we might do once saved up a but more.. Long saga but finally happy.
Thanks
Mick