Unknown Social Welfare fraud?

WhiteWalls

Basically my father has been getting some form of social welfare while also working. The year before last he was offered to go from a 3 day week to a four day week. This seemingly brought her over the threshold for this payment.

He has recently gotten a letter looking for payslips. He is extremely worried that not only will the payment be stopped but that that he will have to pay back what she was give for nearly two years. This was a genuine error on his behalf. Does he have a defence or is this clear cut, ie, payment stopped and forced repayment?

Any advice would be great

Valetta

WhiteWalls wrote: »

Basically my father has been getting some form of social welfare while also working. The year before last he was offered to go from a 3 day week to a four day week. This seemingly brought her over the threshold for this payment.

He has recently gotten a letter looking for payslips. He is extremely worried that not only will the payment be stopped but that that he will have to pay back what she was give for nearly two years. This was a genuine error on his behalf. Does he have a defence or is this clear cut, ie, payment stopped and forced repayment?

Any advice would be great

It's very clear cut. If there were overpayments they will have to be paid back.

However, they are very flexible as to the repayment terms and length of time.

Unfortunately the revenue people and social welfare still don't seem to be able to communicate, which would eliminate a lot of these mistaken overpayments.

It's a ridiculous system whereby people who are not well versed in the intricacies of the system can inadvertently receive overpayments and are then held fully liable to repay the monies.

If the department making the payments were made to carry out more checks on the validity of the taxpayers money they are giving out, these situations would be reduced, to the benefit of all.

My suggestion would be to wait for the figure Social Welfare come up with; check it for accuracy (maybe get Citizens Advice to have a look), and agree a repayment schedule that your father can comfortably afford.

A relative of mine has had the very same scenario, and after it is settled I intend to pursue the authorities to try and have the system reformed, where vulnerable people are not subject to this sort of situation.

Don't think I'll get anywhere, but it needs to be highlighted.

stargazer 68

Odd question I guess but is there a 'statue of limitations' on when they can claim back any overpayment?

Valetta

Not as far as I know.

It's another anomaly in the system.

Certainly with revenue, under normal circumstances you can only go back four years to reclaim overpaid taxes. However, there is no limit on how far back revenue can go to chase underpaid taxes.

I think Social Welfare operates the same way.

Gatling

If he's been over paid he will of course have to pay it back ,the department can legally take 15% from his payment till its repaid .

Kristopherus

Valetta wrote: »

It's very clear cut. If there were overpayments they will have to be paid back.

However, they are very flexible as to the repayment terms and length of time.

Unfortunately the revenue people and social welfare still don't seem to be able to communicate, which would eliminate a lot of these mistaken overpayments.

It's a ridiculous system whereby people who are not well versed in the intricacies of the system can inadvertently receive overpayments and are then held fully liable to repay the monies.

If the department making the payments were made to carry out more checks on the validity of the taxpayers money they are giving out, these situations would be reduced, to the benefit of all.

My suggestion would be to wait for the figure Social Welfare come up with; check it for accuracy (maybe get Citizens Advice to have a look), and agree a repayment schedule that your father can comfortably afford.

A relative of mine has had the very same scenario, and after it is settled I intend to pursue the authorities to try and have the system reformed, where vulnerable people are not subject to this sort of situation.

Don't think I'll get anywhere, but it needs to be highlighted.

There's an election coming up.:)

stargazer 68

Valetta wrote: »

Not as far as I know.

It's another anomaly in the system.

Certainly with revenue, under normal circumstances you can only go back four years to reclaim overpaid taxes. However, there is no limit on how far back revenue can go to chase underpaid taxes.

I think Social Welfare operates the same way.

Thought as much. I came off RA almost a year ago and received a letter saying they would be in touch with regards to over payment. Still waiting!

Gerry T

Not to put a negative comment but he may also get charged interest on the monies due and also a fine, but it does sound like a mistake and not a deliberate attempt to defraud so that probably won't happen

Mrs OBumble

WhiteWalls wrote: »

Basically my father has been getting some form of social welfare while also working. The year before last he was offered to go from a 3 day week to a four day week. This seemingly brought her over the threshold for this payment.

He has recently gotten a letter looking for payslips. He is extremely worried that not only will the payment be stopped but that that he will have to pay back what she was give for nearly two years. This was a genuine error on his behalf. Does he have a defence or is this clear cut, ie, payment stopped and forced repayment?

Any advice would be great

Sorry, but I call BS on this. If you work three days you're welfare eligible. If you work more you're not. This is incredibly well known.

A prosecution should follow.

It probably won't (not worth the resources). But from what you've said this was deliberate fraud and should have consequences.

haveringchick

Gerry T wrote: »

Not to put a negative comment but he may also get charged interest on the monies due and also a fine, but it does sound like a mistake and not a deliberate attempt to defraud so that probably won't happen

There will be no interest charged.
Everybody who gets a SW payment is informed that if their circumstances change they must inform SW
Getting an extra days work is a change in circumstances
There is no statute of limitations on overpayments
all of the money paid out by SW is owned by all of the people
if you get more then your fair share then you have to pay it back
It helps to look at I that way.

WhiteWalls

If he was to go back to a 3 day week would he be eligible for this payment again? Or is there penalties now in place so that he can never claim it again

_Brian

WhiteWalls wrote: »

If he was to go back to a 3 day week would he be eligible for this payment again? Or is there penalties now in place so that he can never claim it again

Typically if its seen as a genuine error he won't be stopped getting a his payment.

mansize

Don't you have to mark the days you work on a sheet and submit to SW office???

If he wasn't marking them correctly that's a very serious matter

WhiteWalls

No he never had to go into the SW office . It went straight to his account

Mick Murdock

So it's only come to light that he/she (difficult to tell from your post) can work 3 days but not 4 now that he's been asked for payslips? It's a pretty clear system where you are paid per day. I find it hard to believe somebody wouldn't realise working an extra day wouldn't affect their dole or in this case make them ineligible.

Their welfare should be stopped until the full amount + a fine is repaid. No chance of that though.

Work 4 days and stop collecting welfare.

flutered

Mick Murdock wrote: »

So it's only come to light that he/she (difficult to tell from your post) can work 3 days but not 4 now that he's been asked for payslips? It's a pretty clear system where you are paid per day. I find it hard to believe somebody wouldn't realise working an extra day wouldn't affect their dole or in this case make them ineligible.

Their welfare should be stopped until the full amount + a fine is repaid. No chance of that though.

similar to all the goingon's at a certain charity, screw a worker over a mistake, but when someone makes a white collar fortune they can give every one the bird, followed by lawyers corrospondence

The Sun King

It might be the case that they won't even follow up on this, OP. A few years back I went to university, got the 200e assistance to buy books and all that. Unfortunately I became very sick and had to leave. When I went to switch over the payment from BTEA to JSA they informed me I'd have to pay the 200 back. I challenged this as it had been used with the view to being permanently in college. They didn't agree but never followed up on it.

Wait it out and see what they say. The crowd I dealt with were talking about as little as a fiver a week repayments.

Miaireland

With SW you must notify them if there is a change of cicumstances. Surely your Dad must have known this. If his days got reduced to two days I am sure he would notify them.

He needs to send in his pay slip and start paying back what he owes. The sooner he starts the sooner it ia done.