Is prepping pointless?

ScumLord

Especially American preppers. Of course it would be good to have some initial supplies but I see these Americans with their house in the wilderness and they fill it full of processed food that probably won't go off. They spend fortunes on this stock despite the fact their living in the American wilderness and have access to just about everything they could ever need once they know how to get it.

From just an American point of view they'd be better off going to their local native American reserve and getting obsessed with native American culture. Everything they need to know about survival has already been done by the native Americans.


Form an Irish point of view we'd be better off learning as much traditional crafts and farming techniques as we could. Rather than depending on stock piles of stuff we can never replicate. How to produce iron from bog marsh, how to make clothes from basic supplies like wool and hide, how to produce natural antiseptics, how to prepare and cook food without modern conveniences.

Can anyone else think of valuable traditional trades and knowledge that would be invaluable in an apocalyptic environment?

GavRedKing

Americans, by and large are prepping for a SHTF scenario. Although it could easily be applied to a Z scenario with a few tweaks to defence.

I've seen a few of the doomsday preppers programmes on NG or it might have been Discovery but some of the lengths some of the families have gone too are pretty extreme.

The wilderness would be a much better place to fend off Z's providing theres not a massive horde from a local town wondering about where as some of those in suburban America are pretty much screwed by stock piling on site, they wont be able to bring much of it if they got over run by survivors or Z's.

I do agree though on your point about the Native Americans, they are or at least were, a very hardy people and with regards to trapping and surviving in the wild, the average Joe soap without much knowledge of it would be well advised to take on board any advice given.

RiderOnTheStorm

ScumLord wrote: »

Can anyone else think of valuable traditional trades and knowledge that would be invaluable in an apocalyptic environment?

I think learning basic first aid, carpentry, and some electrics (for wiring lights, batteries, generators, etc) would be good.

But first thing that occurred to me when you asked, was preserving food. In this country there is a glut of food in summer / autumn.... more than you can possibly eat (as I am reminded when I take in my apples), and then they go scarce in winter. So learning how to preserve food would be a must.

I know you can smoke meat to prolong its usefulness. And you can pickle fruit. What can you go with veg? Must look that up.

ScumLord

Fruits are straightforward enough, turn them into some sort of jam, or alcohol. But preservation problems are the reason things like potatoes became so popular here, root vegetables naturally preserve themselves over the winter months.

The bottom line is you'd have to get used to what's available. You'd have meat all year round, that's not a problem. You'd have to do a lot of work to stockpile grains and root vegetables. Fruits, you'd just have to eat when available, luckily you've got fruits in the summer and the likes of berries in the autumn. Blackberries grow like weeds here so there's no end of them at certain times of the year.

Wurzelbert

i reckon in a zombie apocalypse being able to defend oneself would be essential, especially in the early phase…so stock up on guns and ammo - suggest pump action shotgun and buckshot - and make sure to know how to use it all…ammo will run out after a while, so some weapon-making and self defense skills would also be good…maybe also have a halberd or similar old-school melee weapons in the house…and i’d stock up on razor wire to secure my dwelling…
hunting, trapping, starting a fire and similar skills should come in handy, as would some knowledge of what’s edible out there, depending on the scale of the apocalypse, also first aid skills and some medical knowledge, and of course diy skills like electrical, carpentry and so on, especially in case the situation persists…

my3cents

Wurzelbert wrote: »

i reckon in a zombie apocalypse being able to defend oneself would be essential, especially in the early phase…so stock up on guns and ammo - suggest pump action shotgun and buckshot - and make sure to know how to use it all…ammo will run out after a while, so some weapon-making and self defense skills would also be good…maybe also have a halberd or similar old-school melee weapons in the house…and i’d stock up on razor wire to secure my dwelling…
hunting, trapping, starting a fire and similar skills should come in handy, as would some knowledge of what’s edible out there, depending on the scale of the apocalypse, also first aid skills and some medical knowledge, and of course diy skills like electrical, carpentry and so on, especially in case the situation persists…

Prepping is for the unexpected and having what you need to hand early on is what its all about. If you die off early then it doesn't matter how big your stockpiles are.

Another part of prepping is having a plan, some people may have the luxury of living in a good defendable location but most of us I suspect would need to move quickly to a better location.

If there is a major cull of the human population then I think it may be selective and those with practical skills and capable of learning fast may become the majority.

ScumLord

Wurzelbert wrote: »

so stock up on guns and ammo -

The problem is in Ireland it's hard to get access to guns, the guards will flat out refuse to give a license to most people. I guess it might be possible to source one after the outbreak but then you're unlikely to know how to use it, although shotguns are fairly easy to hit things with.

Alternatives are pretty skilled based, but there is a projectile weapon that anyone can make at home and practice as a hobby, ammo is abundant and free.

my3cents

ScumLord wrote: »

The problem is in Ireland it's hard to get access to guns, the guards will flat out refuse to give a license to most people. I guess it might be possible to source one after the outbreak but then you're unlikely to know how to use it, although shotguns are fairly easy to hit things with.

Alternatives are pretty skilled based, but there is a projectile weapon that anyone can make at home and practice as a hobby, ammo is abundant and free.

A sling shot from a prepping point of view maybe but as a Zombie "killer" I don't think its doing to be much use.

Wurzelbert

my3cents wrote: »

A sling shot from a prepping point of view maybe but as a Zombie "killer" I don't think its doing to be much use.

seems we'd be doomed...

Wurzelbert

my3cents wrote: »

[...]
If there is a major cull of the human population then I think it may be selective and those with practical skills and capable of learning fast may become the majority.

but can we count on hordes of zombies to be selective?

my3cents

Wurzelbert wrote: »

but can we count on hordes of zombies to be selective?

I was working from the premise that the more stupid will get caught first.

RiderOnTheStorm

not sure about 'prepping' .... but being prepared is definitely worthwhile. What 'prepared' means to me, might be different to others. I dont see the point of making a bunker or fortifying my house, as I might not be there when 'it' happens, or my house might be destroyed by 'it', or fire during panic, etc. Same with stockpiling food, weapons, etc. I do, however, have a plan which I can adapt (basically a plan on how to fortify whatever house I am in, and how to get food & weapons, etc) , and I keep eye out for new places / bases / stores of materials that I may use. My son had a great phrase when we were discussing this some time ago. He said "mental lumber is better than real lumber". He means that its better to know where the wood is, rather than try to store it before the Apoc. Let someone else store it! Same for food (there is enough food in the average house for a month). A recent survey said enough food in average supermarket for 1 person for 50 years, and 70 years if you are willing to eat pet food. So, pointless imho storing vast amounts (and the Mrs wouldnt allow it either...however I do buy a few extra tins of food every time we go to Tesco and try keep a few weeks of long life food to one side at home).

Skills are the best way of being prepared. These can be 'got' before hand. Learning to make fire, defenses, carpentry to make & repair stuff, first aid, radio use, planting & harvesting, engine repair, and knowing that everyones home heating oil can be used in a diesel engine vehicle...this is all good stuff to have at hand. The hone fuel thing: thats part of my plan too, when I need fuel I go to nearest housing estate (taking my little jeep & trailer full of jerry cans) and fill up on home heating oil. I would use if for vehicles or generators. Its not the best fuel, but when the engine packs in, I will go get another jeep .... there will be loads around!

RiderOnTheStorm

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Tzar Chasm

RiderOnTheStorm wrote: »

not sure about 'prepping' .... but being prepared is definitely worthwhile. What 'prepared' means to me, might be different to others. I dont see the point of making a bunker or fortifying my house, as I might not be there when 'it' happens, or my house might be destroyed by 'it', or fire during panic, etc. Same with stockpiling food, weapons, etc. I do, however, have a plan which I can adapt (basically a plan on how to fortify whatever house I am in, and how to get food & weapons, etc) , and I keep eye out for new places / bases / stores of materials that I may use. My son had a great phrase when we were discussing this some time ago. He said "mental lumber is better than real lumber". He means that its better to know where the wood is, rather than try to store it before the Apoc. Let someone else store it! Same for food (there is enough food in the average house for a month). A recent survey said enough food in average supermarket for 1 person for 50 years, and 70 years if you are willing to eat pet food. So, pointless imho storing vast amounts (and the Mrs wouldnt allow it either...however I do buy a few extra tins of food every time we go to Tesco and try keep a few weeks of long life food to one side at home).

Skills are the best way of being prepared. These can be 'got' before hand. Learning to make fire, defenses, carpentry to make & repair stuff, first aid, radio use, planting & harvesting, engine repair, and knowing that everyones home heating oil can be used in a diesel engine vehicle...this is all good stuff to have at hand. The hone fuel thing: thats part of my plan too, when I need fuel I go to nearest housing estate (taking my little jeep & trailer full of jerry cans) and fill up on home heating oil. I would use if for vehicles or generators. Its not the best fuel, but when the engine packs in, I will go get another jeep .... there will be loads around!

A lot of home heating systems run on kerosene, this will kill your engine in short order due to its lack of lubricant, the simplest solution is to add a few litres of veg oil to the tank, this will lubricate and prevent catastrophic engine failure

RiderOnTheStorm

Tzar Chasm wrote: »

A lot of home heating systems run on kerosene, this will kill your engine in short order due to its lack of lubricant, the simplest solution is to add a few litres of veg oil to the tank, this will lubricate and prevent catastrophic engine failure

Good tip .... thanks!

ScumLord

my3cents wrote: »

A sling shot from a prepping point of view maybe but as a Zombie "killer" I don't think its doing to be much use.

That kind of depends on how susceptible they are to brain trauma. The sling would be enough to kill a living person stone dead (da dum tish) if you hit them in the head. The zombie must keep some part of the lower brain functions going to use the body, the rest of the dead brain would probably act like a helmet protecting the parts that are still in use. However the sling should be able to disable parts of the zombie. A stone to the face could destroy the zombies vision. A stone to the back of the head/neck could kill them instantly. The forces generated by the sling are big enough to be deadly, it's just a high skill weapon.

RiderOnTheStorm wrote: »

My son had a great phrase when we were discussing this some time ago. He said "mental lumber is better than real lumber".

There's hope for humanity yet.

lazybones32

ScumLord wrote: »

Especially American preppers. Of course it would be good to have some initial supplies but I see these Americans with their house in the wilderness and they fill it full of processed food that probably won't go off. They spend fortunes on this stock despite the fact their living in the American wilderness and have access to just about everything they could ever need once they know how to get it.

From just an American point of view they'd be better off going to their local native American reserve and getting obsessed with native American culture. Everything they need to know about survival has already been done by the native Americans.


Form an Irish point of view we'd be better off learning as much traditional crafts and farming techniques as we could. Rather than depending on stock piles of stuff we can never replicate. How to produce iron from bog marsh, how to make clothes from basic supplies like wool and hide, how to produce natural antiseptics, how to prepare and cook food without modern conveniences.

Can anyone else think of valuable traditional trades and knowledge that would be invaluable in an apocalyptic environment?

I guess the bonus of having preserved foodstuffs stockpiled is that you give yourself plenty of time to learn how to grow, prepare and preserve natural food without having to scavenge supplies in order to prevent malnutrition/starvation. I saw people freaking out before Xmas, filling their trollies for one day that the stores would be closed: can you imagine how frenzied it would be if there was a serious situation presenting itself? Also, I think if people's diet were radically altered, it would have some effect on the immune system and the digestion. Being more prone to cold's/flu's (at minimum) and suffering from stomach cramps/diarrhea is not ideal if you are food to some predator and need stamina and endurance to escape.

If Society were to collapse, fresh and clean water* would be priority number 1, since the electricity that powers the system would presumably be cut off. You can last a few weeks without food, not without clean water.
The ability to stay dry and warm would be 2. Irish winters aren't as hard as Continental ones but they're bad in their own way: the driving wind and rain can chill your bones within minutes. Decent rubber jacket/pants can keep you dry and act as an additional layer of protection from a set of human teeth.
Companions would be more important than food in the immediate collapse imo and that's why I place it in third. We all need someone. 2 heads are better than 1 and in a stressful situation, we'll need human company.
Food should be relatively easy to source for a long time, so I don't think that'd be an immediate priority** but once the basics are reasonably accounted for, I'd turn my thoughts to safely reducing the number of threats in my location.

* Boiling fresh water will remove most contaminants and a kids science show taught me how to distill fresh water from sea water.
** having multivitamins and even sugar and salt added to water can maintain the body for a bit longer without physical food. Seeing as there are lots of cows close-by, milk would be on the menu as long as the cows are alive.

riffmongous

RiderOnTheStorm wrote: »

I think learning basic first aid, carpentry, and some electrics (for wiring lights, batteries, generators, etc) would be good.

But first thing that occurred to me when you asked, was preserving food. In this country there is a glut of food in summer / autumn.... more than you can possibly eat (as I am reminded when I take in my apples), and then they go scarce in winter. So learning how to preserve food would be a must.

I know you can smoke meat to prolong its usefulness. And you can pickle fruit. What can you go with veg? Must look that up.

Isn't it funny how 50 years ago this would have been common knowledge to most people in Ireland? I'm sure my mother would still know exactly what to do and me with all my science and education would only have a very rough idea, and even then I'd say I'd know more than most other young people

PucaMama

If you can store enough food and water to allow yourself to board up your house and evaluate the situation for a few days I think that would be good. Make sure you have medications and a first aid kit. With medications, some people don't know what they are taking. Find out the generic names etc. So you are able to raid chemists for your medications. Learn similar medications. Learn basic care for common diseases. And once things start to brake down we may see things like cholera. People need to know these things just as much as anything else.

Whitewinged

I don't prep or anything or actually believe any of this going to happen (well I hope not) but I was just thinking the other day because I have a bit of a chest infection.

Id say I have taken antibiotics about 4 times in my life so far and I'm in my early 30s. I know people that seem to take that much a year, they always seem to be on antibiotics. Would my body technically be a bit more prepped to fight off infections than someone who has taken alot of antibiotics? Obviously I know other health factors would come into it but just taking that information into account only.

PucaMama

Whitewinged wrote: »

I don't prep or anything or actually believe any of this going to happen (well I hope not) but I was just thinking the other day because I have a bit of a chest infection.

Id say I have taken antibiotics about 4 times in my life so far and I'm in my early 30s. I know people that seem to take that much a year, they always seem to be on antibiotics. Would my body technically be a bit more prepped to fight off infections than someone who has taken alot of antibiotics? Obviously I know other health factors would come into it but just taking that information into account only.

In theory yes you might have a stronger immune system. But remember there will always be infections like the Spanish flu, it killed fit healthy young people by turning their own immune system against them. In a zombie apocalypse situation disease will be rife because of a failure of sanitation and because of dead rotting bodies. Also I'd guess antibiotics would be among the first things to be stolen from chemists, along with painkillers. Unless you had the knowledge of how to use the less recognisable antibiotics, that would be really useful.

Grizzly 45

Form an Irish point of view we'd be better off learning as much traditional crafts and farming techniques as we could. Rather than depending on stock piles of stuff we can never replicate. How to produce iron from bog marsh, how to make clothes from basic supplies like wool and hide, how to produce natural antiseptics, how to prepare and cook food without modern conveniences.

Why would you want to live in a draughty Teepee and forge bog iron when there would be plenty of scrap iron around for any sort of metal project you would want to make and plenty of decent houses available once the Zs have been evicted?
"traditional" farming methods in Ireland were labour intensive for what they produced,and how many of you would know how to use a horse and plough? Have a look at a dirt simple system of floating hydroponics .All you need is a container that holds liquid[water and epsom salt at its most basic] and somthing to keep the plant afloat[strofoam supporting a net cup full of clay pellets]
Your pirorities should be
Water, shelter,fire, food,defence. And TBH IMVHO the walking dead will be falling apart in the Irish, or any climate within months.There is just no physical way necrotic tissue can survive in the elements.
Would be more concerned with surviving the aftermath and dealing with chacters like The Commander or Negan in the walking dead.:eek: