1st time PC build, opinions/advice appreciated

2ndcoming

Been interested in putting together a PC for a while now but thought it would be way out of my level of ability (no experience whatsoever with electronics) but I've learned enough following this forum the past few weeks to believe I could actually do it, so I thought I'd throw my ideas out here to see what the experts think.

Basically want a one-off build that will do me for the next 5 years more or less without much tinkering. Main use performance wise would be gaming, possibly some music workstation use as well but only hobby stuff I would expect. It will also be the main household PC so the usual media requirements, and while I want it to be powerful enough for modern gaming, I want to as much as possible avoid it looking like a "gaming pc". It will more than likely be in the sitting room so I would like a sleek but neat look so I will prob go for a fairly minimal case.

Anyway here's what I've put together, would expect to put these together between now and summer as that's how long it will take me to fund realistically. I am however open to 2nd hand parts or changes to plan if savings could be made without much sacrifice. All advice welcome...

http://www.mindfactory.de/product_info.php/MSI-Z170-A-PRO-Intel-Z170-So-1151-Dual-Channel-DDR4-ATX-Retail_1015491.html
MSI Z170A mobo €110.85

http://www.mindfactory.de/product_info.php/Intel-Core-i5-6400-4x-2-70GHz-So-1151-BOX_1010024.html
Intel i5 6400 €185.49

http://www.mindfactory.de/product_info.php/4096MB-Sapphire-Radeon-R9-380-Nitro-inkl--Backplate-Aktiv-PCIe-3-0-x16--_1016531.html
Sapphire Radeon R9 380 €219.40

http://www.mindfactory.de/product_info.php/8GB--1x-8192MB--HyperX-FURY-schwarz-DDR4-2400-DIMM-CL15-15-15-Single_1010615.html
HyperX Fury DDR4 RAM 8gb €46.29

http://www.mindfactory.de/product_info.php/1000GB-Seagate-Desktop-HDD-ST1000DM003-64MB-3-5Zoll--8-9cm--SATA-6Gb-s_775365.html
Seagate 1tb HDD €46.46

http://www.mindfactory.de/product_info.php/120GB-Samsung-850-Evo-2-5Zoll--6-4cm--SATA-6Gb-s-TLC-Toggle--MZ-75E120B-E_987650.html
Samsung 850 Evo 128gb SSD €59.91

http://www.mindfactory.de/product_info.php/500-Watt-be-quiet--System-Power-8-Non-Modular-80--Bronze_1023158.html
Be Quiet 500w PSU €49.05

Xenoronin

Solid build. The Fractal R4 case is quite neat if i recall correctly.
Note that you will need to pick up a kettle lead for the PSU in order for it to work here (german/eu plug head by default). Or you could just order one from amazon or something and have it arrive with the correct cable.

You've clearly done your homework, right down to the ideal ram speed.

Digital Solitude

Solid build, gaming PC looks however you want it to

The 380 won't last 5 years if you like high settings, but that's personal preference

MarkAnthony

I would suggest - budget permitting a larger SSD. I found that after getting used to the OS being quicker than a greases ferret up a trouser leg, sitting there for 30 seconds staring at FO4 loading screens was pissing me off. I find 512GB to be ample for everything.

On memory - 16GB if you can. Not needed but it will allow you to go to 32GB rather than limit you to 16GB (depending on DIMM Slots)

If you're waiting until the summer GPU is moot as they'll be loads of new ones out.

jamescd

Have a look at my thread http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057542919

Pretty much the same, except I went with a R9 380x and you've picked out a Z170 mobo. In the end, I went with:

Intel Core i5 6400 4x 2.70GHz - €183.89
MSI H110M PRO-VD DDR4 - €57.55
Crucial 8GB DDR4-2133 CL15 Single - €36.83
XFX Radeon R9 380X DD XXX OC 4096MB - €228.68

The XFX 380X is only less than a tenner more than that Sapphire 380 you've picked out. I only received it yesterday so I haven't had the chance to game on it yet, but from initial impressions, the XFX 380X is pretty good. It's whisper quiet.

If you look through the thread, you will see a couple of posters mention that the i5 6400 can be overclocked with a Z170 motherboard. Since you're getting a Z170 mobo, you might as well get an aftermarket cooler and have a go at overclocking. I'd imagine that'll be a big help if you want it to last for 5 years.

2ndcoming

Big saving there on the motherboard... aside from possible overclocking, is there any drawback to going for one like that? Would love to cut a few quid off where possible.

Picking up a Fractal R4 tower off adverts for 40 blips so off to a decent start. Will try to get a deal on a PSU there as well to save any plug hassle. Heading Stateside in March so hoping to find some bargains there as well.

I'm gonna be happy if I can run the next few years of games on high settings really. I haven't gone for a new gen console (and won't be) and my laptop is basically limited to the same ability as my 360.

My thinking was just if the mobo needs to be upgraded it would surely be a lot more work than adding ram, or upgrading the processor or graphics card.

jamescd

If you're not overclocking, apart from the extra SATA ports, USB 3.0 ports, etc., then the only added benefit I can think of is DDR4 2400mhz RAM. The H110 only takes DDR4 2133mhz RAM.

I wasn't keen on overclocking either and the SATA ports, USB ports, etc. on the H110 mobo are more than enough for my needs. I didn't think spending another 50 odd euro on the Z170 just so I can get 2400mhz RAM was worth it imo.

Xenoronin

I was going to argue the merits of 2400MHz, but after looking at the benchmarks again the difference is so minimal, that if you are looking to save money then it's a perfectly fine idea to move down to the H110 board. I need to look into the difference between DDR3 and 4 a little more but for now I'm starting to get down off the 2400MHz bandwagon until I find a compelling reason other than "it may improve minimum framerates in some games sometimes maybe"

MarkAnthony

Overclocking the current crop of mainstream K series intel CPUs is, IMHO, only worth doing 'for the craic'. I see massive jumps in temp for very, very little performance gain.

Redfox25

Save money you say. Drop cpu to i5 4690 and use cheaper board. If its just for gaming you wont see much of a drop.

2ndcoming

Redfox25 wrote: »

Save money you say. Drop cpu to i5 4690 and use cheaper board. If its just for gaming you wont see much of a drop.

The 4690 is considerably dearer than the 6400 for whatever reason, the Z97 and Z170 seem to run fairly similar in price as well so I think that would work out a good bit dearer.

Been talking to someone who knows a lot more than me in work who is pushing me towards a Corsair H60 watercooling kit and min 750w PSU (for efficiency, and quality electrical delivery). He also recommends a clockable board, for down the line when you need to squeeze a bit of extra juice out, or at least to give you the option.

Purchases made as of yet = zero, haha, but the plan is coming together.

AlmightyCushion

A 750W power supply would be such a waste of money unless you're running multiple graphics cards. Even then it'd probably still be overkill.

SterlingArcher

Agree with cushion. Them parts are for a totally different budget /build and would only take up money that is better put to use elsewhere.

blueband

Long time since I built a rig, no time (young kids) and even less spare funds these days.

The main thing I'd say is for a very small outlay I'd bump the RAM to 16GB, small money and certainly will add some futureproofing

blueband

Long time since I built a rig, no time (young kids) and even less spare funds these days.

The main thing I'd say is for a very small outlay I'd bump the RAM to 16GB, small money and certainly will add some futureproofing

2ndcoming

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

A 750W power supply would be such a waste of money unless you're running multiple graphics cards. Even then it'd probably still be overkill.

This guy seriously knows his electrics, most of his advice was about longevity (he is the office IT guy so keeping machines working is his trade). He says it's not about having enough wattage to power everything, he reckons for quality, stable delivery of power and overloading protection (as the only thing you can't control is the mains power coming into the PSU) you should aim for double the wattage you need and 80 plus gold efficiency rating.

AlmightyCushion

2ndcoming wrote: »

This guy seriously knows his electrics, most of his advice was about longevity (he is the office IT guy so keeping machines working is his trade). He says it's not about having enough wattage to power everything, he reckons for quality, stable delivery of power and overloading protection (as the only thing you can't control is the mains power coming into the PSU) you should aim for double the wattage you need and 80 plus gold efficiency rating.

You should always have a bit of headroom with a power supply but there is no need for double the wattage. As long as you get a decent PSU with a bit of headroom so it's not running at 90% wattage when everything is maxed out then longevity isn't going to be a big deal. A 550w PSU running a system that maxes out at 400W is probably more likely to fail sooner than the same system with a 750W as it's less stressed (although I have nothing to back that up I'm just assuming) but not by much. A good power supply that isn't overly taxed will last years unless you get unlucky. It seriously isn't worth spending the extra on it especially when that extra few quid could get you a larger SSD or better GPU which will have tangible benefits.

Digital Solitude

Agree with Cushion, there's better places to spend money than a high wattage PSU. The guy is correct, there's no disputing that fact, but on a budget you want price/performance.

A good PSU will last you 8-10 years anyways, you'll probably not need to worry about it dying unless its faulty

Disagree with 16gb ram, it's totally useless for a gaming PC unless you've got seriously RAM hungry games. Iirc PC Gamer did a piece last year where 4gb RAM is enough for a gaming PC, 8gb preferably and 16gb has minor improvements

The difference between a €150 and €200 GPU is much higher than the difference between 8gb and 16gb RAM.

blueband

Digital Solitude wrote: »

Disagree with 16gb ram, it's totally useless for a gaming PC unless you've got seriously RAM hungry games. Iirc PC Gamer did a piece last year where 4gb RAM is enough for a gaming PC, 8gb preferably and 16gb has minor improvements

The point wasn't for gaming, it was for futureproofing.

AlmightyCushion

blueband wrote: »

The point wasn't for gaming, it was for futureproofing.

You'd still be better off getting 8GBs now and get another 8GBs later on when it's cheaper. Saying that I don't think anything more than 8GBs will have any real tangible benefits for most people for a while yet.

2ndcoming

So just as an update, I've finally picked up my first parts: a Seagate 2tb HDD and Fractal R4 case for a grand total of €75. Slightly under the retail price for either one on their own so off to a good start.

I've also determined my initial mobo/processor/GPU combo. Going with a Z170, possibly AS Rock Extreme 4 or Asus equivalent, an i3 6100 with Hyper 212 Evo cooler, and R9 380/380x. These are more than likely going to be grabbed in one lot from mindfactory for around €450 if I can gather everything else bit by bit like a jawa first.

The i3 will offer everything I need for at least a year, the Z170 will allow me to swap the chip out for an i5 6600k with Corsair H series watercooler or similar in a year or two and keep ahead of the game with minimal alterations.

Would imagine I will be in the €800 ballpark by the time I'm up and running. I know I could trim corners to probably do it for €600, I just feel like the Z board will give me more flexibility into the future, and the R9 card will last me a few yrs and hopefully still have decent resale value by the time I want to change.

I'll be back with pics and more questions when I have something approaching a buildable collection of parts.

MarkAnthony

Some good points.

2ndcoming

Just got back from the States yesterday and did a bit of shopping at the local Micro Computer centre. Fantastic shop, loads on sale and will match newegg for anything else.

Was looking for the i3-6100 as my starter processor but as they were out of stock they gave me the i3-6300 for $120 for the inconvenience. Added an ASRock Z170 Pro4S mobo, Samsung 850EVO 250gb SSD and 8gb Crucial Ballistix DDR4 2400 ram for a total spend of $330 (€300).

Brings my total spend so far up to €375 (spent €75 on 2tb HDD and Fractal R4 case earlier) with only a PSU, GPU, monitor and Hyper 212 cooler left to get, so hoping to come in under €700 all in for everything. Could prob do it for €600 if I get a cheaper GPU, but still aiming for an R9380 so all in all I think 700 represents about as cheap as possible to put a build like this together from start to finish.

Looking forward to picking up the last few bits now over the next couple of weeks and getting this thing together!

2ndcoming

Okay guys, the Fractal case deal didn't work out for me so I went for a Corsair Carbide 100R Silent from Amazon.

I've put all my components together today but when I powered up and connected to the monitor I'm getting no signal...

I don't have a GPU yet, do I need to connect the PCI-E cables from the PSU somewhere or just leave them hanging loose?

I'm getting a bit worried as it powers up fine (no beep but no speakers connected), all the lights and fans are running and I'm pretty sure I did everything by the book?

Any help greatly appreciated!

Eoinmc97

Use different connectors, or see if the monitor is the problem.
Make sure all wires are correctly plugged in, and if not, you might have CPU issues.

2ndcoming

Got it sorted! Classic noob stuff, I didn't have the RAM pushed in 100%, prob just being too careful.

Delighted! Now to install Windows.

Eoinmc97

Sweet! Enjoy!

2ndcoming

Alright guys, I'm back again...

When I boot I am getting the "Reboot and select proper boot device" screen. I can't seem to get into the BIOS at all.

Has anyone else here maybe done a build with an ASRock Z170 board that might have come across this before?

Both the SSD and HDD are brand new and clean and the SSD is connected at the SATA_0 connection.

2ndcoming

Okay mashing the F2 button gets me into the BIOS and everything seems to be recognised as normal.

For some reason the fans are really loud again since I connected my USB dvd drive (as it was when I tried to boot without the RAM installed properly) and the chassis fan speed readouts seem to go up and down wildly in the BIOS...

2ndcoming

Diagnosed the loud CPU fan to a stray cable clipping it.

Ran into common Skylake problems with my Windows 7 installation and lack of USB 2.0 connections on the motherboard. Got around them with the ASRock USB Patcher tool, very handy in the end!

Just about to connect to t'internet for the first time, what is the name of the software you guys use through Windows to monitor temps etc?

Edit: Connected via ethernet cable to my Horizon box, getting Error 651 - modem has reported an error. Some googling says this has something to do with network sharing settings... not a broadband issue as I'm using the same connection on my laptop to post this. Is this an issue anyone has come across before?

Shlippery

I'm not an expert by any means but

Have you ethernet drivers? Usually cd that comes with motherboard has a load of misc stuff on it, if not download the drivers on your laptop and put them on a usb key if you don't have a disc drive!

http://openhardwaremonitor.org/ I've either this for a general hardware monitor
and I use Speedfan to keep an eye on temps. Speedfan is handy for keeping the fans quiet, sometimes they've a mind of their own and go mental for no reason.

2ndcoming

So lads, few weeks on and I'm flying. Picked up an R9 285 card for 120 on adverts that has handled everything I've thrown at it on max settings admirably, bringing the total spend to 540 euro.

Specs:
AS Rock Z170m PRO4S mobo
Skylake i3 6300
8gb Crucial Ballistix DDR4-2400
Samsung 850EVO 250gb SSD
Seagate Barracuda 2TB hard disk
MSI R9 285 2gb GPU
EVGA 500 Bronze PSU
Corsair Carbide 100R Silent case

As you can see from the pic at the minute I'm using a keyboard and mouse I borrowed from work and a Samsung 1080 22" TV I picked up for free and fixed, will look to upgrade all these in due course but happy out for now. Would post an internals pic but combination of non-modular PSU and non-windowed case means the internals aren't really nice to look at, but I'm just happy it all works!

One remaining question, can anyone recommend a good fan controller software, or even advice on doing it through the BIOS. Been using the ASRock A-Tuning app that came with the mobo but even though I set it to run on startup it doesn't seem to implement my settings unless I manually open up the app first. I'm going for quiet as possible so a decent CPU cooler is next on the shopping list but would like to get it as quiet as possible (and safe) til then.