Sourdough starter - anyone make it?

OU812

Decided to start on a starter yesterday, all went to plan & I fed it today, Seems to be going well with a pleasant aroma & thick consistency. Gonna keep going with it & hopefully get to use some this weekend (on what I have no idea yet), after that, what do I do? Keep feeding it? Is it ok to keep at room temperature or should I refrigerate it? I've heard the flavours get better over time.

Any advice?

magicmushroom

I haven't made one yet but have been planning on doing so for a while.
So I'm going to follow his thread

I bought the book by James Morton 'Brilliant Bread' which gives some good advice on sourdough starters, how to store it at different temperatures etc.

JPA

OU812 wrote: »

Decided to start on a starter yesterday, all went to plan & I fed it today, Seems to be going well with a pleasant aroma & thick consistency. Gonna keep going with it & hopefully get to use some this weekend (on what I have no idea yet), after that, what do I do? Keep feeding it? Is it ok to keep at room temperature or should I refrigerate it? I've heard the flavours get better over time.

Any advice?

You can't use it this weekend if you only started today, next weekend maybe, going well.

You can keep it at room temperature if you'll be using it frequently, like every couple of days, and you'll need to keep feeding it.
Or you can refrigerate it between using it but you'll need to reawaken it by having it out and feeding it 24 - 36 hours before using.

pwurple

Yup, i have a starter going about 18 months. When i take some out to use, i top it up again. I'm not too sure about the ins and outs of the flavour to be honest, i did it for the free yeast!

I keep it in the coolest part of my house, so slightly below room temp, but not refrigerated.

You do need to keep an eye on it until you get the hang of how it behaves. When I started with it, i think i let a couple of them get too dry, and they gave up on me. Another one I lost when i went on hols and forgot about it (house smelled like brewery when i got back!)

I take from it twice a week, topping up each time.

OU812

Excellent. Thanks for that info JPA. I guess I'll be dumping a load of it over the week if I have to keep feeding it daily. Friends & family here it comes !

JPA

OU812 wrote: »

Excellent. Thanks for that info JPA. I guess I'll be dumping a load of it over the week if I have to keep feeding it daily. Friends & family here it comes !

Good guide/recipe here http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2013/may/10/hugh-fearnley-whittingstall-recipes-sourdough

Whistlejacket

A lot of recipes say to use wholemeal spelt flour but I prefer not to end up with brown specks in my white loaves, so I just use strong white flour now. Mine lives in my unheated kitchen, so cool but not refrigerated, and I feed it 2-3 times a week. It's like having a low maintenance pet!

Bored_lad

I have a white starter myself. You'll want to feed to daily equal parts flour and water for the next week and a half or so and then you should be able to use it for your first loaf. After that if your going to be using it regularly keep it out and feed it daily discarding some every few days. Otherwise store in your fridge and feed as needed discarding a bit every time. If your keeping it in the fridge take it out around a day or two before you want to use it and feed it a few times to wake it up before using it.

OU812

Made a first loaf this morning. Gorgeous crust on it & such a fantastic taste.

tringle

Yes and no, I was just about to log on and see of anyone had any starter they would like to share with me (In in North Tipp)

I have tried and failed about 6 times to make it.
Firstly I used Paul Hollywoods recipe which is strong white flour and an organic apple, tried about three rimes and each time got it to about 10 days and then lost it just before I went to use it.
Then I tried to just leave it open in the polytunnel to catch the natural yeasts but it over heated.
Then finally an American recipe which started with a packet of yeast, again I got it to about a week but never got any bread from it.

Bored_lad

tringle wrote: »

Yes and no, I was just about to log on and see of anyone had any starter they would like to share with me (In in North Tipp)

I have tried and failed about 6 times to make it.
Firstly I used Paul Hollywoods recipe which is strong white flour and an organic apple, tried about three rimes and each time got it to about 10 days and then lost it just before I went to use it.
Then I tried to just leave it open in the polytunnel to catch the natural yeasts but it over heated.
Then finally an American recipe which started with a packet of yeast, again I got it to about a week but never got any bread from it.

If your looking to buy starter there are a number of places online that sell starters sourdo.com is an American one that I know of for sure but there are loads more.

I'd advise you to try again at least one more time I looked a Paul Hollywood's methods and its completely different to what I do and a lot different to what I've seen done on sites such as Egullet and The Fresh Loaf.

What I did was day one take a few table spoons of flour and an equal quantity of water and mix them together in a small container. I left them loosely covered with some clingfilm for around 24-48 hours. After this is should have changed colour slightly and you should have that distinctive sourdough smell. Then you want to mix it in to 100g of flour and 100g of water. You should be using strong flour btw. Keep growing by mixing in 100g of flour and water until you have around 500g of starter. Then I started adding 50g of each a day. You want to grow it for about a week after you mixed in that first 100g for water and flour before using it. Its still young at this stage but will bake just fine. After your first loaf you can move it to the fridge where you can feed it every few weeks or as needed or keep it out and feed it daily discarding some every second day or so. Depending how often you use it.

Over time you get to know your starter amd can tell when it needs to be fed etc. At the beginning try to feed it at the same time every day and use the same type of flour. There's nothing much too it and if you fail just try go again its only flour and water its not expensive.

Also has anyone on here experimented with French flours? I'm looking to move away from your bog standard mass produced Odlums flour to something a bit better preferably something organic but I'm not sure where to source it.

OU812

Made a sourdough loaf this morning. I thought my started had died when I ran out of flour on Tuesday & didn't get a chance to get any until Saturday. Pulled it back though, it's two weeks old now & doing well. I made a dough Sunday which I left in the hot press for 24 hours before baking. Did it this morning & the flavour is intense.

Tringle, I can send you some starter if we can figure out how to get it to you in the mail. - don't think a jiffy bag is going to cut it... doing well.

Bored_lad

If your looking to post starter it will need to dry out the starter and then when whoever your sending it to gets it they'll have to rehydrate it again. It's quite a simple process and you can find loads about the process with a quick Google.

magicmushroom

Bored_lad wrote: »

If your looking to buy starter there are a number of places online that sell starters sourdo.com is an American one that I know of for sure but there are loads more.

I'd advise you to try again at least one more time I looked a Paul Hollywood's methods and its completely different to what I do and a lot different to what I've seen done on sites such as Egullet and The Fresh Loaf.

What I did was day one take a few table spoons of flour and an equal quantity of water and mix them together in a small container. I left them loosely covered with some clingfilm for around 24-48 hours. After this is should have changed colour slightly and you should have that distinctive sourdough smell. Then you want to mix it in to 100g of flour and 100g of water. You should be using strong flour btw. Keep growing by mixing in 100g of flour and water until you have around 500g of starter. Then I started adding 50g of each a day. You want to grow it for about a week after you mixed in that first 100g for water and flour before using it. Its still young at this stage but will bake just fine. After your first loaf you can move it to the fridge where you can feed it every few weeks or as needed or keep it out and feed it daily discarding some every second day or so. Depending how often you use it.

Over time you get to know your starter amd can tell when it needs to be fed etc. At the beginning try to feed it at the same time every day and use the same type of flour. There's nothing much too it and if you fail just try go again its only flour and water its not expensive.

Also has anyone on here experimented with French flours? I'm looking to move away from your bog standard mass produced Odlums flour to something a bit better preferably something organic but I'm not sure where to source it.

These instructions make more sense to me than I have read in any cookery book - thank you - I am going to try one now based on exactly what you've said here

catho_monster

magicmushroom wrote: »

These instructions make more sense to me than I have read in any cookery book - thank you - I am going to try one now based on exactly what you've said here

I'm just back from a sourdough masterclass with Dan Lepard and he emphasised using not white flour (rye, wholemeal spelt etc) for the starter because it's the outside of the wheat kernal that bears the yeast. Worth trying that too...

pwurple

Bored_lad wrote: »

Also has anyone on here experimented with French flours? I'm looking to move away from your bog standard mass produced Odlums flour to something a bit better preferably something organic but I'm not sure where to source it.

There are a few shops in the english market in Cork city that have a reasonable range of non-odlums flours. Are you near there?

pwurple

catho_monster wrote: »

I'm just back from a sourdough masterclass with Dan Lepard and he emphasised using not white flour (rye, wholemeal spelt etc) for the starter because it's the outside of the wheat kernal that bears the yeast. Worth trying that too...

Or, you can start your starter off with yeast from a non-flour source. That's what the apple in the other recipes is about, or leaving it uncovered at the start for airborne yeast to land on it and start growing.

fiddlechic

I've finally moved into a house with a proper kitchen, and sourdough is majorly on the to-do list.
I used this recipe before, and thought really helpful -http://www.thethoughtfulbreadcompany.com/sourdough-unleashed-a-how-to-to-help-you-get-baking-your-own-at-home/

This thread will inspire me!

magicmushroom

Bored_lad wrote: »

What I did was day one take a few table spoons of flour and an equal quantity of water and mix them together in a small container. I left them loosely covered with some clingfilm for around 24-48 hours. After this is should have changed colour slightly and you should have that distinctive sourdough smell. Then you want to mix it in to 100g of flour and 100g of water. You should be using strong flour btw. Keep growing by mixing in 100g of flour and water until you have around 500g of starter. Then I started adding 50g of each a day. You want to grow it for about a week after you mixed in that first 100g for water and flour before using it. Its still young at this stage but will bake just fine. After your first loaf you can move it to the fridge where you can feed it every few weeks or as needed or keep it out and feed it daily discarding some every second day or so. Depending how often you use it

I wanted to ask this question before but it sounds stupid, even to me, so I didn't

However, I want to make this tonight whilst I have the flour out for the pancake batter so I'm asking!

When you say you use 100g of flour and 100g of water, do you weigh the water or do you mean you use 100ml?

Gosh it sounds even more stupid when I read it back haha

Alun

magicmushroom wrote: »

When you say you use 100g of flour and 100g of water, do you weigh the water or do you mean you use 100ml?

It makes no difference, 1ml of water weighs 1g, so whatever's more convenient.

If you put a bowl on the scales, zero it, add 100g of flour and then add water up to 200g, you've added 100ml of water just the same as if you'd measured out 100ml in a measuring cup or jug and poured it in.

magicmushroom

fiddlechic wrote: »

I've finally moved into a house with a proper kitchen, and sourdough is majorly on the to-do list.
I used this recipe before, and thought really helpful -http://www.thethoughtfulbreadcompany.com/sourdough-unleashed-a-how-to-to-help-you-get-baking-your-own-at-home/

This thread will inspire me!

What a great link, very helpful to look at - I've printed it for reference, it's going on my fridge when I get home

Thank you

magicmushroom

Alun wrote: »

It makes no difference, 1ml of water weighs 1g, so whatever's more convenient.

If you put a bowl on the scales, zero it, add 100g of flour and then add water up to 200g, you've added 100ml of water just the same as if you'd measured out 100ml in a measuring cup or jug and poured it in.

Thanks - I didn't know that 100ml of water was the same measurement 100g, I learnt something new today

Whispered

I got some starter posted to me. In a Jiffy bag. Apparently it does ok overnight it just arrived today so I don't know yet.

I've a couple of questions. I know you're supposed to feed it with the same ratios of water and flour to starter. Is that by weight or by volume?

Does the container I store it in have to be airtight? And silly question maybe but does it have to be an upright container? I was thinking of using a glass butter dish.

It's still in its bag in my fridge, I think I should pour it into its new home now and feed, right?

tringle

Thanks for the offer of posting it, Im going to give it another go and if that doesn't work will get back to you,

tringle

1 cup of flour and 1 cup of strong wholemeal flour now in a container with the lid off. Ive left it beside the fruit bowl hoping some stray yeast might find its way in

meeeeh

I am complete bread making novice but Daniel Steven's River Cottage book on bread is brilliant for novices like me.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Bread-River-Cottage-Handbook-No/dp/074759533X

I followed his instructions for starter, kept it in hot press for couple of days and now it happily sits in utility room and I feed it every couple of days.
http://www.them-apples.co.uk/2012/01/starter-to-loaf-how-to-make-sourdough-bread/

tringle

Its driving me mad.
Ive read all the posts here.
Ive read the three books I have about sourdough.
Ive looked up the internet.

And they tell me to start my sourdough
...with more flour than water
...with equal amounts of flour and water
...with more water than flour

Ive to feed it
...twice a day
...every day
...every second day
...once a week

I don't know what to actually do anymore.

I have two starters on the go using different methods but they aren't really doing much.
Finally today they stared to bubble a little, only about 1cm of the top though, certainly no doubling in size.
I am feeding them 1/2 cup flour and 1/2 cup of water every day and whisking it in well
They are in the utility room which is 18 degrees
any more suggestions

And then if I do get it going there seems to be so many methods for baking it.
Some make a sponge first, and then the dough. Some straight to the dough, what do you do?

I don't want to give up but I seem to have a lot of flour invested in it so far.

magicmushroom

tringle I have seen lots of different advice too, my mind is boggled with it all.

Also, some advise that when you feed it, you should throw half of what is already there away...does anyone here do this??

tringle

And now Ive juts found this, great advice but different again

http://www.riotrye.ie/common-loaf/#ryess

tringle

Ive just watched the two instructional videos, they are excellent and I have to say Ive bought bread from them and it is very good

OU812

I was told (father in law is a master baker) not to let metal touch it at all - kills the yeast. Are you using a metal whisk by any chance?

meeeeh

magicmushroom wrote: »

tringle I have seen lots of different advice too, my mind is boggled with it all.

Also, some advise that when you feed it, you should throw half of what is already there away...does anyone here do this??

I do. Sometimes I throw it away or I use half of it for baking.

The only time when I saw starter bulk up considerably is first day when I left it in hot press. After that it is bubbling on the surface or not even that, if I leave it alone for too long the water seems to be on top. Good intensive mixing seems to sort that out. I baked with it a few times and it works fine. I use wholemeal flour, apparently it reacts faster than white.

tringle

Yes, I am using a metal whisk. But when I knead it I will also be using a metal bowl and dough hook.

Yep,I think I need to throw some of it out, in Joes video he says one part starter, one part flour and one part water. Ive bought some batteries for my digital scales and will try that tomorrow.

kimokanto

tringle wrote: »

And now Ive juts found this, great advice but different again

http://www.riotrye.ie/common-loaf/#ryess

I am loving this thread, I have tried & failed in the past but I am determined to give this a go again.
Thanks for that link Tringle, nice to see some home-grown advice.

I found this website & although long-winded it gives good clear well justified reasons for the steps involved.
http://www.sourdoughhome.com/index.php?content=startermyway2

OU812

tringle wrote: »

Yes, I am using a metal whisk. But when I knead it I will also be using a metal bowl and dough hook.

It's OK at that point, but while the yeast is developing & fermenting, you need to use only wood, glass,plastic. No metal at all.

Bored_lad

If your using stainless steel it will have no adverse effect on the yeast no matter what stage in the process you use it. I can't see why anyone would be using anything other than stainless steel so metal isn't a problem with yeast any more if it ever was.

tringle

Im going to gives Joes rye starter a go as well and will reduce he amount of the other two. Ive bought 3 kilner jars, I was going to buy 2 pyrex dishes but at €30 each I decided not too

tringle

Ok, Ive managed to get a starter going and managed to get it to make the bread rise. But my second rising and baking times don't seem to work. Either it over rises and then collapses or collapses in the oven. Do you bake it on a tray or in a dish? And how long do you rise it and bake it?

christeb

tringle wrote: »

And now Ive juts found this, great advice but different again

http://www.riotrye.ie/common-loaf/#ryess

I attended Joe's Serious Sourdough course a few weeks ago, so just to mention a couple of important points:

- Float Test your Starter. If it floats in room temp water it's ready to use, if it doesn't, it's not.
- Temperatures when proving. Most yeast activity at 23-24 C, so try to keep your temps around this - unless you want to retard fermentation in a fridge etc.
- How to know when your dough is ready to bake. Press the dough with your finger, it should bounce back nicely.
- I pre-heat my oven for an horu on the hottest temp with a baking stone, this helps develop a great crust and cooks it through. Recommended. If you want your loaves to looks v professional, prove them in a (non-gluten) floured proving basket. Gives the loaves those cool lines the whole way around!

If you can spare a day I highly recommend his course in Cloughjordan!

tringle

Why a gluten free floured basket? I was using the same flour as the bread.

christeb

tringle wrote: »

Why a gluten free floured basket? I was using the same flour as the bread.

No gluten ensures your dough won't stick to the basket. Brown rice flour is perfect.

kimokanto

Finally got my starter to work!! I used organic wholemeal flour & organic wholemeal rye flour. (75%/25%) equal weights of water to flour & kept it on the mantelpiece I think its working:pac::pac:

Bored_lad

Anyone who has an interest in sourdough or making their own breads should definitely watch Michael Pollan's "Cooked" on Netflix. Episode three called "Air" is all about making bread.

Rew

I was struggling a bit with mine I made some changes to the water I was using and the result have been much better, last 2 loaves:





I got pH srips and tested the tap water to make sure it was 4-6, I also boil it then set aside to stand for 24h to let any chlorine evaporate off. I should really get a filter but ill get around to it eventually. Bottled water was a disaster as the pH was nearly 8.

tringle

Finally made a sourdough bread and have done three days in a row now.
So I had a starter with apple
A starter with natural yeast
A starter with packet yeast
A starter with rye flour

I felt like giving up but had a lot of flour and time invested so I threw them all in together and bingo it worked.

I made a loaf with one recipe and it over proved and collapsed and was dense.
I made a loaf wit another recipe and it never proved at all.

So I put all the starter in the fridge and forgot about it.

Then I took some out the other day and now have a successful rhythm going.
9am: One cup starter, one cup flour, one cup tepid water, whisk really well and leave to rise.
11.30am: In my mixer add three cups strong flour, 2 cups starter and one cup tepid water and knead for about 10 minutes. This leaves me with exactly one cup starter for tomorrow. Leave covered in the mixing bowl to double in size.
3pm: Pour out onto a floured board and shape into a round shape by cupping and stretching the top, put into a round tin lined with baking parchment, sprinkle with flour and put some cuts in it.
6pm: Bake
7.30pm: Just in time for dinner

It tastes great and is comparable with any good yeast bread I have made. It doesn't quite have the large holes associated with sourdough. I cook it with a softish crust and this is what we prefer. We have enough for four of us for dinner, breakfast and even bruschetta for lunch.

Thanks all for the help and encouragement.:)

daisybelle2008

I sent off for Carl Griffiths 1847 Oregon sourdough starter before Christmas. It's free you just contribute to posting, they post you around a large teaspoonful, it arrived a week ago.
It's a dried starter so I have started the process to activate it today after reading this thread!

Dried bits still look fairly solid so not sure how that will affect it. Fingers crossed.