Your experiences of the Irish music scene

Elemonator

This is inspired by another thread. I would like people to share their experiences working with Irish bands and musicians, funny stories and other cool stuff from the Irish music scene.

An experience I've had is when I first started gigging with weekend bands on Friday nights and the wedding scene, I noticed just how small the scene was. You could be pretty good friends with a major artist and go have pints as friends.

Fire away

Flint Fredstone

Elemonator wrote: »

This is inspired by another thread. I would like people to share their experiences working with Irish bands and musicians, funny stories and other cool stuff from the Irish music scene.

An experience I've had is when I first started gigging with weekend bands on Friday nights and the wedding scene, I noticed just how small the scene was. You could be pretty good friends with a major artist and go have pints as friends.

Fire away

So who did you have pints with?

eviltimeban

Pay to play, basically.

Elemonator

Flint Fredstone wrote: »

So who did you have pints with?

Ran into U2 members, Van Morrison, Noel Bridgeman.....hell I even ran into Stereophonics one time!

the_syco

Pay to play, basically.

F**k that with a rusty blade, tbh. Every time someone pays to play, only the pub wins. And for what? So you and your friends pay marked up drink to see you play, and you get nothing from it? Nothing. You don't get exposure, because all of your friends already know that you play.

You know that pay-to-play is bad when playing for nothing is better!

eviltimeban

the_syco wrote: »

F**k that with a rusty blade, tbh. Every time someone pays to play, only the pub wins. And for what? So you and your friends pay marked up drink to see you play, and you get nothing from it? Nothing. You don't get exposure, because all of your friends already know that you play.

You know that pay-to-play is bad when playing for nothing is better!

Pay to play was the bane of the Irish music scene for so long, but it did eventually die out when bands refused to do it anymore. And venues stopped doing it. Actually I think it was more the "promoters" who would put these nights on and "sell" you a bunch of tickets. The only people there would be your friends and the friends of the other bands on the night, so no one really cared about the other.

Was stung with that so many times. Better to go after decent support slots, or just put your own night on (which in fairness costs money, but you can promote it and downscale it to be in a bar or something rather than somewhere like Voodoo or the Hub, where these things used to always be).

Other experiences? There was nowhere to go, no next step to make - none of the labels were signing bands, those that did were tiny and didn't really make any difference. You really had to go to London for a chance at any bigger success.

The Gibzilla

I probably had the stereotypical amateur Irish band experience. I started playing in a band around 08, just as the recession hit and it was immensely enjoyable. I ended up out of work due to the downturn, as did all my band-mates, so gigging late midweek and rehearsing at any hour of the day wasn't an issue.

Being very naïve as to how a band, the music industry and "the scene" worked, we did the whole "Pay to Play" thing, but I think we copped on after the first one that it was a massive waste of time for us and our small fanbase (friends and family who we dragged to our gigs). There was also plenty of decent spots to play for original bands without having to pay. Dimestore on Thursday nights in Sweeney's on Dame St was always a great night it had three floors of original music (and still does as far as I know), The Pint on the Quays was another good venue for original bands and Captain America's in Blanchardstown used to host some really good original act nights. We got €0.00 for playing any of the above, but didn't really mind, few free pints, good fun and an opportunity to get up and make some noise was on offer! We even hosted our own night in a bar in town, promoted it and generated a decent crowd and few bob after a while.

The problems came when after a few years none of us in the band actually knew what to do with it. We'd gigged, we'd recorded, done festivals and put our music "out there", but after that we didn't really know what the next steps were. Gradually, the more we looked into press-packs, management and promoters, the more the fun and enjoyment drained. The economy started to pick up and we all got jobs again, meaning time and commitment became an issue, so we ended up calling it a day. All in all, it was amateur hour all day long, but still had more positives than negatives and it was a great experience.

eviltimeban

The Gibzilla wrote: »

The problems came when after a few years none of us in the band actually knew what to do with it. We'd gigged, we'd recorded, done festivals and put our music "out there", but after that we didn't really know what the next steps were. Gradually, the more we looked into press-packs, management and promoters, the more the fun and enjoyment drained. The economy started to pick up and we all got jobs again, meaning time and commitment became an issue, so we ended up calling it a day. All in all, it was amateur hour all day long, but still had more positives than negatives and it was a great experience.

What you needed was radio play. And for significant radio play, you needed a label. Having said that, a band I was in had radio play, I'm talking national station, middle of the day radio play, and it didn't make a jot of difference. We had coverage in Hot Press (photos and a "ones to watch" article), heck we even had write ups in the Mirror and the Daily Mail. But it still didn't matter - Ireland was / is too small for any of that to make a difference. Ireland is too small for that to mean anything significant.

As for what you say about promotion / management, at the end of the day it's a business, it's the music "industry" after all. So bands have to be prepared to tackle the business side as well, do the promo, the website, mail CDs to 50 different local stations, text radio stations 50 times a day to request their song (and ask all their friends and families to do the same). It takes a lot of stamina to keep that going, and if you're seeing returns it makes it easier; if not, it's very easy to just throw in the towel, which countless bands have done.

The Gibzilla

eviltimeban wrote: »

What you needed was radio play. And for significant radio play, you needed a label. Having said that, a band I was in had radio play, I'm talking national station, middle of the day radio play, and it didn't make a jot of difference. We had coverage in Hot Press (photos and a "ones to watch" article), heck we even had write ups in the Mirror and the Daily Mail. But it still didn't matter - Ireland was / is too small for any of that to make a difference. Ireland is too small for that to mean anything significant.

As for what you say about promotion / management, at the end of the day it's a business, it's the music "industry" after all. So bands have to be prepared to tackle the business side as well, do the promo, the website, mail CDs to 50 different local stations, text radio stations 50 times a day to request their song (and ask all their friends and families to do the same). It takes a lot of stamina to keep that going, and if you're seeing returns it makes it easier; if not, it's very easy to just throw in the towel, which countless bands have done.

Radio play can be quite subjective to bands. While it's something that every band would like to have available to them, it doesn't necessarily mean that every band suits the radio. For example, the only major station in this country (to the best of my knowledge) which offers a platform to alternative music is TXFM (Phantom to those of us of a certain age :P) and even at that, the station has been downgraded since the days of it being Phantom. If your band hasn't got a Kodaline-esque sound (I don't mean that in a derogatory manner), or isn't a radio friendly act, then radio play isn't an option. So banging off CDs and texts to radio stations is a really great idea, if your band suits what the radio plays.

There are many avenues though, which make it easier for the bedroom musician or garage band to reach an audience. Bandcamp, Soundcloud, YouTube, even Spotify offer an opportunity to bands to get their music out there. Facebook and Twitter are now excellent promotional tools for bands, when they're utilised correctly. I do agree with your point that Ireland is too small for our radio and our national music press to make a huge difference to an Irish act from a global perspective, but it can be a good stepping stone for the right band.

eviltimeban

The Gibzilla wrote: »

Radio play can be quite subjective to bands. While it's something that every band would like to have available to them, it doesn't necessarily mean that every band suits the radio. For example, the only major station in this country (to the best of my knowledge) which offers a platform to alternative music is TXFM (Phantom to those of us of a certain age :P) and even at that, the station has been downgraded since the days of it being Phantom. If your band hasn't got a Kodaline-esque sound (I don't mean that in a derogatory manner), or isn't a radio friendly act, then radio play isn't an option. So banging off CDs and texts to radio stations is a really great idea, if your band suits what the radio plays.

Radio stations playing bands has nothing to do with what music they "like". It's all about plugging. Radio promo is a big business, and we had engaged with some promoters with regards to getting regular, playlisted, daytime radio play. The more you pay them, the harder they push, the more you get played on the radio. It's all about money. You think what you're hearing on TXFM is "the best" music out there? It's not - it's the music with the biggest PR budget.

However I do agree that the more radio friendly your music is, the more likely it'll be played. Having said that, "indie" is a catch all term isn't it? You can have Mars Volta played next to Coldplay and no one would bat an eyelid.

The Gibzilla wrote: »

but it can be a good stepping stone for the right band.

But that's the same problem you had - a stepping stone to what? You go over to the UK and you start from scratch. No one in the UK gives a flying f**k about what's happening in Ireland. But that's where all the labels are. Or you go to the US and it's even harder.

We had a UK guy and had hoped the (little) success we'd had in Ireland (a top 5 iTunes Ireland single no less) would help us but we might as well have been featured in "Farming Weekly" for all the good it did.

the_syco

eviltimeban wrote: »

Pay to play was the bane of the Irish music scene for so long, but it did eventually die out when bands refused to do it anymore.

It still exists. Have seen a certain venue on Lower Camden Street hosting such sh|te, but as the venue itself wasn't running it, I won't name it.

BuilderPlumber

eviltimeban wrote: »

What you needed was radio play. And for significant radio play, you needed a label. Having said that, a band I was in had radio play, I'm talking national station, middle of the day radio play, and it didn't make a jot of difference. We had coverage in Hot Press (photos and a "ones to watch" article), heck we even had write ups in the Mirror and the Daily Mail. But it still didn't matter - Ireland was / is too small for any of that to make a difference. Ireland is too small for that to mean anything significant.

As for what you say about promotion / management, at the end of the day it's a business, it's the music "industry" after all. So bands have to be prepared to tackle the business side as well, do the promo, the website, mail CDs to 50 different local stations, text radio stations 50 times a day to request their song (and ask all their friends and families to do the same). It takes a lot of stamina to keep that going, and if you're seeing returns it makes it easier; if not, it's very easy to just throw in the towel, which countless bands have done.

The main problem with the Irish music scene is the media (radio and TV) will only support certain styles and they will not support other styles at all. I am sick of seeing very poor quality boyfolk (Irish country pop) and boyband performers on our screens so often. It seems if one does not sound like Westlife or Mike Denver the media will not support it. I see countless singers, musicians and bands of every style of music who are far more talented than what we get to see on Tubridy or to hear on 2FM. Yet, none of them are been given the breaks they deserve.

Clever marketing and exposure on the top media have made stars out of some of the worst performers (boyfolk and boyband performers mainly). If poor fare can become famous, then why can't good singers, musicians and bands get their breaks? For whatever reason, our media fall in love with certain performers (many of them of poor quality) and then force them on us every way they can. This is wrong and keeps out and discourages a lot of people. Setting up a band today is a very brave move, and a lonely road for most apart from those who have influence.

Elemonator

the_syco wrote: »

F**k that with a rusty blade, tbh. Every time someone pays to play, only the pub wins. And for what? So you and your friends pay marked up drink to see you play, and you get nothing from it? Nothing. You don't get exposure, because all of your friends already know that you play.

You know that pay-to-play is bad when playing for nothing is better!

Jesus that stupidity used to p*** me off. We are musicians, many years (learning your craft, rehearsals) of training and dedication have gone into the small set that the audience sees. I'm not a venues barking seal, if you want musical entertainment then I suggest paying musicians to play and not the other way round. I'm not one to demand money but we contributed to the coffers so we should get some, afterall it is some people's livelihood. There is one particular occasion we had enough. We were scheduled to play a well known venue in town, often used by smaller international acts, and we were given a few hundred tickets to sell (along with a few other bands) and we didn't even get a cut, despite the fact that thousands of euro was made (I am a broke ass college student). Eventually, we ended up giving out about it to the right people and we got offered a place in a large music festival with money for our time plus expenses, free pints and food and some of the greatest craic I've ever had!

BuilderPlumber

eviltimeban wrote: »

Radio stations playing bands has nothing to do with what music they "like". It's all about plugging. Radio promo is a big business, and we had engaged with some promoters with regards to getting regular, playlisted, daytime radio play. The more you pay them, the harder they push, the more you get played on the radio. It's all about money. You think what you're hearing on TXFM is "the best" music out there? It's not - it's the music with the biggest PR budget.

However I do agree that the more radio friendly your music is, the more likely it'll be played. Having said that, "indie" is a catch all term isn't it? You can have Mars Volta played next to Coldplay and no one would bat an eyelid.

Explains a lot. Gave up on listening to radio a long time ago because everytime I turned it on, there either was some boyband, awful country pop music or deafing 'thump thump thump' stuff. Melodies and meaningful lyrics were non-existent. TV is no better. It is all these talent competitions and then it is all these boybands and country pop singers getting promoted on Tubridy's show and so on.

Radio and TV does not belong to and the content should not be bought by promoters whose money could be dodgy. There is a tax in this country to own a TV so if we are taxed to have such a device, we should have a say in the content that gets shown. If people are in a band and pay tax to own a TV, they have a right to get a bit of promotion. Everyone should get a chance. Lord knows there's enough shows on it and it should be the people who decide about bands once they are shown. I hate terms like 'radio friendly'. That is a prejudged stance favoring one form of music and not another.

The problem runs much deeper than music and is that the media just like politicians and banks and other institutions has become detached from the people and has failed the people. With regard to music, the media is there to promote and protect just boybands and boyfolk music (aka country pop music) and little else.

the_syco

Nova has a "local music hour" on Sundays. You'll hear a few local bands from right across the scale (metal/indie/etc).

eviltimeban

the_syco wrote: »

Nova has a "local music hour" on Sundays. You'll hear a few local bands from right across the scale (metal/indie/etc).

We were on that a few times. Didn't mean anything. F**k all people listen to the radio on a Sunday. We also did the same thing on 98FM, but again it made no difference.

Don't get me wrong, the band were one of the most radio friendly, melodic and commercial bands you could get - the singer had the looks and the voice, a great tight band, strong songs, and amazing recordings (we recorded an album in Westland studios, still unreleased). But we had no money for PR. That was it.

We were quoted crazy amounts of money for PR for one single (in the thousands) but that would've only been a localised approach. We'd been looking at UK and US labels (and even got positive feedback from Taylor Swift's label) but because we had no money to beat them over the head with promotion, we couldn't get anywhere.

Unless you are very lucky and you're in the right place at the right time, it's very hard to get up to that next level. Out of the pond. Look at Ham Sandwich - they were around for YEARS and had a lot of local support, we played with them once in a sold out Village and it was great, but they had to do it all themselves - there was so much money pumped into it. And they got a number 1 Irish album and I think they played in the UK a bit. But where now? Are they going to be in the UK charts? Not without the power of a big label they won't.

That's why I got out of it, and am now happily recording and releasing electronic music. It's ironic, as Irish people love music, we've got the only Tower records in the world, countless festivals, loads of bands (some of them are even good), loads of venues, but no framework of support for that to exist in, namely, big labels who can invest into developing the scene.

the_syco

eviltimeban wrote: »

That's why I got out of it, and am now happily recording and releasing electronic music. It's ironic, as Irish people love music, we've got the only Tower records in the world, countless festivals, loads of bands (some of them are even good), loads of venues, but no framework of support for that to exist in, namely, big labels who can invest into developing the scene.

I find there's not enough people to really give a band a living here. If a Irish heavy metal band goes to the EU, they have so more of a chance of "making it", then if they stayed in Ireland.

fiachr_a

There's no anger in Irish bands (metal excepted). Too much middle-class politeness and niceness. Would Ryan Tubridy have another Virgin Prunes on his show like Gaybo did?

BuilderPlumber

fiachr_a wrote: »

There's no anger in Irish bands (metal excepted). Too much middle-class politeness and niceness. Would Ryan Tubridy have another Virgin Prunes on his show like Gaybo did?

I don't know what things are like in other place but Ireland's mainstream media are total cliques and verge almost on the dictatorial. I've stopped watching the likes of Tubridy's Friday show because it more often than not is an advertising extravaganza for forcing certain individuals on us musical and otherwise. Musically, it is only tame boybands and even tamer pop country that gets promoted 99% of the time.

I have debated the above before and people will say things like 'change the channel', 'turn it off', 'don't support it', etc. and of course I do. That works for me as a fan of entertainers musical and otherwise but not for some band or singer or comedian who needs promotion and cannot get it because the media refuse to offer it.

People may point to shows like Other Voices or to some radio stations. But like the artists these feature, they are not promoted. Shows like Tubridy's are followed and loyally supported to this day out of tradition, a lot like how we voted out of tradition as a family once upon a time. As a result, what goes on on that show is widely known and talked about and the people the media want to force on us get on this and other pushed prime time shows and not on the rarely promoted Other Voices, et al. It is a shame that Irish media is killing Irish talent.

fiachr_a

Compare the support RTE gives to promoting the Westlife/Corrs solo albums instead of showcasing real Irish talent like Ann Scott or Fionn Regan.

bodhrandude

It kinda went downhill when RTE axed Under Ether which got two or three seasons with a nice mix of famous eclectic and indie talent from around Ireland, the same for No Disco, another great show. Ham Sandwich did get some decent coverage on the Electric Picnic show, as did the Coronas and a few others. Other Voices is great but it is mainly established artists that perform on it and who most likely have appeared on Jools before that. We need something like Under Ether again, only extend the series, take in things like Knockanstockan festival, Indiependence and some of the smaller events. Do a pub crawl of music pubs in a city and not just traditional. We need to start a movement who can email and bombard messages to RTE big time or start getting on to TDs like Ming and Mick to speak up about representation of the youth and our right to a good music agenda if we have to pay the licence. You know what RTE would say, 'Sure, just look at Youtube.'

BuilderPlumber

bodhrandude wrote: »

It kinda went downhill when RTE axed Under Ether which got two or three seasons with a nice mix of famous eclectic and indie talent from around Ireland, the same for No Disco, another great show. Ham Sandwich did get some decent coverage on the Electric Picnic show, as did the Coronas and a few others. Other Voices is great but it is mainly established artists that perform on it and who most likely have appeared on Jools before that. We need something like Under Ether again, only extend the series, take in things like Knockanstockan festival, Indiependence and some of the smaller events. Do a pub crawl of music pubs in a city and not just traditional. We need to start a movement who can email and bombard messages to RTE big time or start getting on to TDs like Ming and Mick to speak up about representation of the youth and our right to a good music agenda if we have to pay the licence. You know what RTE would say, 'Sure, just look at Youtube.'

I agree. Under Ether was a good show for up and coming talent. Other Voices showcased more famous singers and bands. Both served a good purpose.

I think we do need to bombard RTE and politicians with messages to let them know that there are fans of other types of music out there besides pop and country pop (boyfolk).

For some unknown reason, The Late Late Show continues to be popular amongst many of all ages inclusive of those who publicly hate it and have not a good word to say about it. Like it or not, this show where no effort is made remains viewed by hundreds of thousands each friday and what people do not realise is that each watch of this show is a statistic that endorses RTE's paying of royalties to non-talents like Mike Denver and Boyband #Zillion. So, even if one does not buy albums of such poor fare, we are still unwittingly supporting them even if we watch them for a laugh.

It would be great to see RTE have a 12 month period where they do not showcase on these prime time chatshows any boybands or boyfolk (Denver, Derek Ryan) and other such pop acts and instead showcase all the other styles.

PS: Don't get me wrong. I am not for banning boybands or boyfolk. While they are not or never were or will be my cup of tea I would have no problem with the promotion of these genres if they coexisted with the promotion of other genres. The problem is that almost 100% of Irish media promotion is dominated by boybands and boyfolk and everything else gets almost no support is what is wrong.

fiachr_a

The best place to buy CDs from modern Irish acts are the charity shops. That says it all.

Anesthetize

Irish music scene as I see it:

- Mainstream Irish music media are idiots. Not that bands and artists should be relying on them...
- Too many cover bands and tribute bands (and I have no respect for these type of bands). Be creative and actually express yourselves through music, regardless of what the punters in the pub think
- Not enough networking between indepedent bands/artists
- Not enough D.I.Y. ethic and trying to make something out of nothing. Every young aspiring band should read Our Band Could Be Your Life by Michael Azerrad

Furthermore bands should not expect to be paid for doing gigs, they should consider it a bonus. If you really love playing music enough you wouldn't give two f**ks if you got paid or not.

If a band really wanted to expand their popularity, without compromising their sound and sucking corporate dick, then they should leave the country. My Bloody Valentine did it and The Virgin Prunes did it. Too many bands here seem to give up and admit defeat.

eviltimeban wrote: »

we've got the only Tower records in the world

No we don't.

BuilderPlumber

Anesthetize wrote: »

Irish music scene as I see it:

- Mainstream Irish music media are idiots. Not that bands and artists should be relying on them...
- Too many cover bands and tribute bands (and I have no respect for these type of bands). Be creative and actually express yourselves through music, regardless of what the punters in the pub think
- Not enough networking between indepedent bands/artists
- Not enough D.I.Y. ethic and trying to make something out of nothing. Every young aspiring band should read Our Band Could Be Your Life by Michael Azerrad

Furthermore bands should not expect to be paid for doing gigs, they should consider it a bonus. If you really love playing music enough you wouldn't give two f**ks if you got paid or not.

If a band really wanted to expand their popularity, without compromising their sound and sucking corporate dick, then they should leave the country. My Bloody Valentine did it and The Virgin Prunes did it. Too many bands here seem to give up and admit defeat.

I have seen countless tribute bands to different singers and bands. Some are very good and others are terrible. But it is the easy option. Just learn the hits of singer/band and then do the same act over and over.

Mainstream Irish music media are very poor and do not support real talent. But because of the third and fourth reasons you give, singers/bands have to rely on them and they know it. Mainstream media then decides what gets heard and what does not and the gullible fall for all the marketing ploys. Like last night I saw a bit of Tubridy (I seldom watch it anymore but did due to the discussion on crime that was on) and saw this guy called Johnny Brady singing with a girl. Never heard of this Brady guy before but he sang exactly the same as all the other modern country boyfolk singers. The same old act. It would be the same if it was a boyband or the type of singer songwriter that the mainstream latch onto. No imagination at all.

Pink Fairy

Anesthetize wrote: »

Irish music scene as I see it:

- Mainstream Irish music media are idiots. Not that bands and artists should be relying on them...
- Too many cover bands and tribute bands (and I have no respect for these type of bands). Be creative and actually express yourselves through music, regardless of what the punters in the pub think
- Not enough networking between indepedent bands/artists
- Not enough D.I.Y. ethic and trying to make something out of nothing. Every young aspiring band should read Our Band Could Be Your Life by Michael Azerrad

Furthermore bands should not expect to be paid for doing gigs, they should consider it a bonus. If you really love playing music enough you wouldn't give two f**ks if you got paid or not.

If a band really wanted to expand their popularity, without compromising their sound and sucking corporate dick, then they should leave the country. My Bloody Valentine did it and The Virgin Prunes did it. Too many bands here seem to give up and admit defeat.


No we don't.

Jesus Christ, some people rely on gigging to put food on their table and pay their mortgage and you say they should play for the love of it and consider earning money a bonus? Haven't seen a more idiotic statement in here in quite a long time

Easy Rod

eviltimeban wrote: »

We were on that a few times. Didn't mean anything. F**k all people listen to the radio on a Sunday. We also did the same thing on 98FM, but again it made no difference.

Don't get me wrong, the band were one of the most radio friendly, melodic and commercial bands you could get - the singer had the looks and the voice, a great tight band, strong songs, and amazing recordings (we recorded an album in Westland studios, still unreleased). But we had no money for PR. That was it.

We were quoted crazy amounts of money for PR for one single (in the thousands) but that would've only been a localised approach. We'd been looking at UK and US labels (and even got positive feedback from Taylor Swift's label) but because we had no money to beat them over the head with promotion, we couldn't get anywhere.

Unless you are very lucky and you're in the right place at the right time, it's very hard to get up to that next level. Out of the pond. Look at Ham Sandwich - they were around for YEARS and had a lot of local support, we played with them once in a sold out Village and it was great, but they had to do it all themselves - there was so much money pumped into it. And they got a number 1 Irish album and I think they played in the UK a bit. But where now? Are they going to be in the UK charts? Not without the power of a big label they won't.

That's why I got out of it, and am now happily recording and releasing electronic music. It's ironic, as Irish people love music, we've got the only Tower records in the world, countless festivals, loads of bands (some of them are even good), loads of venues, but no framework of support for that to exist in, namely, big labels who can invest into developing the scene.

Out of interest, what was the name of your band, if you don't mind me asking?

eviltimeban

Easy Rod wrote: »

Out of interest, what was the name of your band, if you don't mind me asking?

They're still going so I'll leave them out of it!

Easy Rod

eviltimeban wrote: »

They're still going so I'll leave them out of it!

Fair enough!

Feel free to pm me though if you just don't want the world and his mother knowing.

Anesthetize

Pink Fairy wrote: »

Jesus Christ, some people rely on gigging to put food on their table and pay their mortgage and you say they should play for the love of it and consider earning money a bonus? Haven't seen a more idiotic statement in here in quite a long time

Note that I never said that artists shouldn't get paid. Only a very small percentage of artists can earn a full-time living or even make any sort of decent earning from music. What I meant was that artists shouldn't set their hopes high and expect the sun, the moon and the stars to be given to them when they start gigging or making music. And then quit when they're not earning as much as they would expect. There's also these things called jobs which put food on the table. Even Sonic Youth were working day jobs up until they released Daydream Nation.

However, money and music are also a toxic mix. You just have to look at the charts at any point over the past 40 years to see that. The most worthwhile artists focus more on the music rather than the money.

BuilderPlumber

Anesthetize wrote: »

Note that I never said that artists shouldn't get paid. Only a very small percentage of artists can earn a full-time living or even make any sort of decent earning from music. What I meant was that artists shouldn't set their hopes high and expect the sun, the moon and the stars to be given to them when they start gigging or making music. And then quit when they're not earning as much as they would expect. There's also these things called jobs which put food on the table. Even Sonic Youth were working day jobs up until they released Daydream Nation.

However, money and music are also a toxic mix. You just have to look at the charts at any point over the past 40 years to see that. The most worthwhile artists focus more on the music rather than the money.

The sad thing is that anyone who tries to do something different is not getting the breaks anymore. If that policy was adopted in the old days, Sinatra, Elvis, The Beatles or David Bowie to name but a few would never be discovered.

Today's Irish music scene is dominated by boybands, country pop/boyfolk and talent competitions. Shows like The Voice of Ireland are overhyped, and the same old styles are showcased on Tubridy too. With talks of a boyband supergroup seeing the merger of members of Westlife and Boyzone, this scene is unlikely to be dropped off the agenda anytime soon.

Would these boybands and boyfolk singers be as famous if the media were not forcing them on us? Definitely not. Clever marketing works and people have been bombarded with cleancut pop singers like Ronan Keating, Derek Ryan, Shane Filan, Eoghan Quigg, Mike Denver and Nicky Byrne and think that this is all there is in music and accept it. The fact is there is much better, more exciting music being made that most people will never get to hear as it receives no promotion. Until all forms of music get an even playing field, the era of boybands, boyfolk and talent contests will remain.

fiachr_a

The reason there's no good music here anymore is because most who should be in a band have emigrated.

alleystar

I have no direct experience of the Irish music scene (as in - working in it) but I do know that a lot of Irish acts in the "underground" Irish music scene are so up themselves it's a sight to behold, especially with such mediocre talent (sorry, but it's the truth in most cases). I have no interest in boybands and absolutely detest country music but I would much rather see them in the charts than those smug individuals who think they're top class. They already have bloggers (mostly insufferable too) blowing smoke up them, God help us all if the mainstream media jumped on that bandwagon too.

BuilderPlumber

alleystar wrote: »

I have no direct experience of the Irish music scene (as in - working in it) but I do know that a lot of Irish acts in the "underground" Irish music scene are so up themselves it's a sight to behold, especially with such mediocre talent (sorry, but it's the truth in most cases). I have no interest in boybands and absolutely detest country music but I would much rather see them in the charts than those smug individuals who think they're top class. They already have bloggers (mostly insufferable too) blowing smoke up them, God help us all if the mainstream media jumped on that bandwagon too.

I know the types. Singer songwriter types who go on and on about how they wrote half a song in their head coming home from the gym and finished it off on their way to a gig in London and debuted its performance there before releasing it on their 'acclaimed' extended play CD. They are glorified buskers really. These along with these bad country singers and played out boybands are all part of the same old thing. When boybands are the best of them, it says it all.

The media do latch onto these singer songwriter types too and that 'Galileo fell in love' song is a perfect example of one of these totally overrated original songs. Once this bad country boyfolk fad ends, the media will turn to the singer songwriters.

TheBiz

My neighbour was engaged to Neil Young in the early 70s until she called it off to become a nun...
Personally, I find people (in the west anyway) very accommodating of younger people, like myself trying.. I mean I've only really went in to open mic type nights but people come over and want to see you back here again. I've no real experience gigging for money so I can imagine that's a different ball game.

nyarlothothep

BuilderPlumber wrote: »

The sad thing is that anyone who tries to do something different is not getting the breaks anymore. If that policy was adopted in the old days, Sinatra, Elvis, The Beatles or David Bowie to name but a few would never be discovered.

Today's Irish music scene is dominated by boybands, country pop/boyfolk and talent competitions. Shows like The Voice of Ireland are overhyped, and the same old styles are showcased on Tubridy too. With talks of a boyband supergroup seeing the merger of members of Westlife and Boyzone, this scene is unlikely to be dropped off the agenda anytime soon.

Would these boybands and boyfolk singers be as famous if the media were not forcing them on us? Definitely not. Clever marketing works and people have been bombarded with cleancut pop singers like Ronan Keating, Derek Ryan, Shane Filan, Eoghan Quigg, Mike Denver and Nicky Byrne and think that this is all there is in music and accept it. The fact is there is much better, more exciting music being made that most people will never get to hear as it receives no promotion. Until all forms of music get an even playing field, the era of boybands, boyfolk and talent contests will remain.

Hasn't it always been like that though? Thin Lizzy were laughed out of it until they went over to London, showbands were popular instead. Also music across the world is becoming corporatised and hence ****, young people these days don't have any interest in bands, they prefer electronic music, Lady Gaga, Taylor Swift, Ed Sheeran, Kanye etc (I work in a university so I see this shift in cultural tastes). And if they do like any bands it's only going to be the most watered down, inoffensive, bland 'indie' music like The Killers. As an aside, last night in a nightclub the dj played that dance tune from Trainspotting, as a dance number it's pretty good, most people there didn't groove to it too much, they prefered the safer, more modern dance tunes which I would be completely indifferent to, and I know this is just inviting a 'you're getting old' response that's trotted out ad nauseum on boards and parotted across the internet, but it's really not, there seems to have been a shift towards, safer, blander, more formulaic, less inspired or authentic music. Tbh, rock music is pretty stale as well, there's nothing particularly adventurous being done, I think the labels are partly to blame as they obviously will sign bands that are 'profitable' and hence more conservative but tbh, the whole drums, bass, guitar, vocals thing as being the pinnacle of real music...yes there were some great achievements, but I can see where people were coming from back in the day when they said classical music and jazz were better. And I'm a huge rock/metal fan but it's just so limiting after a while isn't it and a lot of the touted bands are basically in that vein of 4/4 garage rock or indie. Terribly boring. Even polymetric metal and combining metal with reggae or whatever, yeah but still, I dunno, there's just something lacking in a lot of bands these days. It's not just doing things differently, like combining different genres, writing songs in 12/8 or not having a guitarist or drummer or whatever, there needs to be inspiration, it can be quantified as it's an artistic thing, it either exists in the music or it doesn't, it has to filter through to the approach the band takes, Ghost are one band that really caught my attention but since the 00s there have been feck all bands that interest me.

BuilderPlumber

nyarlothothep wrote: »

Hasn't it always been like that though? Thin Lizzy were laughed out of it until they went over to London, showbands were popular instead. Also music across the world is becoming corporatised and hence ****, young people these days don't have any interest in bands, they prefer electronic music, Lady Gaga, Taylor Swift, Ed Sheeran, Kanye etc (I work in a university so I see this shift in cultural tastes). And if they do like any bands it's only going to be the most watered down, inoffensive, bland 'indie' music like The Killers. As an aside, last night in a nightclub the dj played that dance tune from Trainspotting, as a dance number it's pretty good, most people there didn't groove to it too much, they prefered the safer, more modern dance tunes which I would be completely indifferent to, and I know this is just inviting a 'you're getting old' response that's trotted out ad nauseum on boards and parotted across the internet, but it's really not, there seems to have been a shift towards, safer, blander, more formulaic, less inspired or authentic music. Tbh, rock music is pretty stale as well, there's nothing particularly adventurous being done, I think the labels are partly to blame as they obviously will sign bands that are 'profitable' and hence more conservative but tbh, the whole drums, bass, guitar, vocals thing as being the pinnacle of real music...yes there were some great achievements, but I can see where people were coming from back in the day when they said classical music and jazz were better. And I'm a huge rock/metal fan but it's just so limiting after a while isn't it and a lot of the touted bands are basically in that vein of 4/4 garage rock or indie. Terribly boring. Even polymetric metal and combining metal with reggae or whatever, yeah but still, I dunno, there's just something lacking in a lot of bands these days. It's not just doing things differently, like combining different genres, writing songs in 12/8 or not having a guitarist or drummer or whatever, there needs to be inspiration, it can be quantified as it's an artistic thing, it either exists in the music or it doesn't, it has to filter through to the approach the band takes, Ghost are one band that really caught my attention but since the 00s there have been feck all bands that interest me.

All true. Thin Lizzy are among the many later acknowledged talents that had to make it via England. While there were many great talents who started out in the showbands, the thing was that their talents were suppressed once again and what they could sing and play was somehow limited by the conservativeness of the state at the time. Two showband stars who went on to offer a lot more were Rory Gallagher and Van Morrison but once again had to take their music to England to reach their full potential.

Most modern music and almost all modern Irish music has been very poor. I cannot understand why the media are obsessed with boybands, modern country music and poor quality singer songwriters. Most people have no interest at all in these genres and those who do buy what the media say easily. All this emphasis on original material too means that more and more poor songwriters can gain attention. Songwriting is a talent few have but a lot think they have. For every Lennon/McCartney, Dylan, Leiber/Stoller, Hank Williams or Irving Berlin, there is a hundred formulaic, uninspired, poor songwriters.

I'm sure there are great singers and musicians out there still but who cannot gain fame due to the rigidity of the media and its unwillingness to support anything other than boybands, modern country music, contemporary singer songwriters and other pop.

Linking music to dance has also done huge damage. Poor music played in clubs or dance halls sounds better when one is with friends and alcohol. College students go to these clubs, dance, pair off and don't really care what noise is on in the background. Older people go to these so called social dancing events where the worst modern country music one can get is played. But as long as people can meet up and as long as the river of alcohol does not stop, the awful modern country rubbish is ok.

Anesthetize

BuilderPlumber wrote: »

Linking music to dance has also done huge damage. Poor music played in clubs or dance halls sounds better when one is with friends and alcohol. College students go to these clubs, dance, pair off and don't really care what noise is on in the background. Older people go to these so called social dancing events where the worst modern country music one can get is played. But as long as people can meet up and as long as the river of alcohol does not stop, the awful modern country rubbish is ok.

Wait, is dancing to music a recent development? Surely this is a fad that will go away eventually.

BuilderPlumber

Anesthetize wrote: »

Wait, is dancing to music a recent development? Surely this is a fad that will go away eventually.

No it has always been there but recent music is only written for dance and caters for it. Because it knows that most will listen to it while dancing rather than enjoying it for its own merit as music it often is poorly written and sounds the same. That awful Irish country music that is pumped out nonstop and featured in all these so-called social dancing events is a perfect example.

Anesthetize

BuilderPlumber wrote: »

No it has always been there but recent music is only written for dance and caters for it. Because it knows that most will listen to it while dancing rather than enjoying it for its own merit as music it often is poorly written and sounds the same. That awful Irish country music that is pumped out nonstop and featured in all these so-called social dancing events is a perfect example.

All recent music is only written for dance? Surely I must be missing out on something here. I never found the urge to dance to the majority of new album releases I've listened to in the past year, but rather stick on a pair of headphones and immerse myself in the music.

Irish country is indeed a turgid excuse for music. But only a faint blip on the radar of what's actually out there.

BuilderPlumber

Anesthetize wrote: »

All recent music is only written for dance? Surely I must be missing out on something here. I never found the urge to dance to the majority of new album releases I've listened to in the past year, but rather stick on a pair of headphones and immerse myself in the music.

Irish country is indeed a turgid excuse for music. But only a faint blip on the radar of what's actually out there.

Of course there is a lot of other types of music out there both now and in the past that was not written solely for dancing to. Most of the really good music out there is also not pushed by the powers that be in Ireland.

Modern Irish country is an example of the type of stuff that gets pushed. It is the in vogue thing with the media at the moment. It is horrid and the Irish media are forcing it on us and making us all believe 'everyone loves it'. The media will not get behind anything other than certain genres that they push. Shame on them.

That said and done of course there are some great singers and bands on the scene here in Ireland who gain success despite almost 100% nonsupport from the media. This comes from sheer hard work and a lot of putting one's neck on the line in the sheer belief these have of what they do. It is disheartening for many with real talent to see the blatant support Irish media give to awful pop music genres like Irish country music.