What does it mean when your dog sits on you?

MrYlad

I have a 2 year old Golden Retriever. He has a lovely temperament and is easily and well trained. But I have two queries about his behaviour.

1. This one may be nothing to worry about but I just want to be sure. Whenever I lie/sit on the ground (say, while watching TV or sunbathing) and he's in the room or near me, he will always come and sit on me. I don't let him do it because I feel as though it could be him trying to assert his dominance, and I feel it's important to maintain yourself above him in the 'pack pecking order'. I'll usually just push him off and stand taller than him and say no or make him do a command (eg sit, lie down etc) just to show I'm in charge.
Also if I'm sitting on a chair/couch and he comes over for attention and I give him a rub, he will usually eventually put his paw up, followed by another, followed by his torso and a back leg. And next thing you know, he's up sitting on my lap. I've stopped him doing this by pushing away the first paw every time, but is there more to this than him simply wanting a cuddle?
Am I being paranoid here? Does he simply just love being as close as possible to us (because I know for a fact he does )? Or is this a cause for concern, if so, what is the best way to deal with it?

1. My next query is with regards to growling. As I said, he has a wonderful temperament and is very obedient. BUT, on the very rare occasion will growl (usually when he has caught a rabbit or something on a walk and I approach him; in these cases I try not to act startle and will remain stern, but I won't approach him). Or rarely him might growl slightly if I came close to him while eating or startled him while he was asleep. I know that this shouldn't be the case at all but I'm not sure how to deal with it. I'm always stern when he shows any aggression but I won't approach him or anything and I wouldn't leave him alone with kids.
Is this normal? How should I deal with it? Is it just a part of his personality that I must deal with?

Sorry for ranting a bit, it's a habit. Thanks for reading and thanks in advance for your help/advice.

DBB

Regarding the first issue, you can put to bed concerns about him asserting his dominance over you... Dogs don't do dominance hierarchies, it's all a myth based on some old, flawed science that has long since been retracted by its author. The only people you'll hear talking about pack leadership these days are those that have not kept up to date with the research.
Dogs do what works for them. Sometimes, they can learn to be pushy to get something they value... Not unlike ourselves This is often misinterpreted by owners that the dog is plotting a military coups against them, but that's not what's driving the behaviour.
Have a read of these articles, written by a couple of the top qualified behaviourists around:

http://www.apbc.org.uk/articles/caninedominance

http://www.apbc.org.uk/articles/why-wont-dominance-die

And an article about how dogs view valued resources, and how to use this to get the best out of them:
http://www.apbc.org.uk/articles/learn-to-earn-is-nothing-in-life-free-for-dogs

To address your post, your dog is absolutely showing affection when he's putting his paws on you and doing as you describe in your first paragraph (assuming he's not growling or showing any signs of aggression in the process).

Your second problem is a little more serious, and one that seems to be common enough in Golden Retrievers. Here, he is showing you that he's uncomfortable about people being near him when he eats, or when he has an ultra-valuable food item (rabbit). You are doing the right thing by not forcing the issue, as this is how the problem usually escalates. Growling is the dog's way of saying "please back off", and instead of punishing this warning system, you need to address why he feels uncomfortable about the proximity of people to his food.
Because you're dealing with mild aggression here, I'd strongly urge you to seek the help of a good, qualified behaviourist, as nobody on a forum can see what's going on in real life. The behaviour he's showing over food usually responds well to a well designed and managed training program, but you need someone who knows what they're talking about to help you with that. Address it asap, don't let this grow legs!
There are too many cowboys out there to let you just look up the phone book, so if you let us know where you're based, hopefully someone can recommend a good, qualified behaviourist to you.

chillybilly

Re: the first issue, I think he's just being affectionate! My dog does it as well, although he's a lot smaller so it's not as uncomfortable. He'll often do it when he's scared, cold or just after a cuddle.

tk123

(I have 2 retrievers)

For the sitting - this is normal for retrievers. They love nothing better than trying to crush each other to death when playing and my girl would also sit up on us like that for company.

For the growling. This really depends on the type of growl. My boy would growl like that when he has certain things because he resource guards which can be common enough in retrievers. My friend's retriever growls when she has anything because she likes us to pretend that we're going to take whatever she has...and my girl growls and woos 24x7 because she's just vocal.

If your boy is resource guarding then you need to train him to not think that you're going to take the rabbit or whatever he has off him. With my boy I'll swap him for something better (a babybel lol) and he's happy enough with that. I started throwing treats near him and walking away and progressed from there. It takes a LONG time - you need to go at their pace and back off when they're not comfortable. Giving out to them will only make matters worse when he's stressed out btw

As you have kids a session with a behaviourist would be a really good idea. In hindsight having had 2 sessions for other issues a session for the resource guarding would have saved me a LOT of time with this(!) Our sessions were with Emmaline from http://www.citizencanineireland.com/ and were brilliant and great fun for the dogs too.

Latatian

It's likely just affection. I have two dogs, one of which rules the roost, and they will rest their heads on each other without any bother. No reason to tolerate it, you can ask him to go lie somewhere else, not to do that etc., but also no real need to worry about who's in charge.

Resource guarding is also not so much a 'dominance' thing- for a dog, possession is 9/10 of the law. Once you have it, it's yours, once you drop it, it's anyone else's, regardless of rank. Guarding of this kind is normal. That doesn't mean it's not something you should train for- it's also 'normal' for dogs to defecate wherever they like and we don't let them do that, lots of natural behaviours are undesirable. Better to get good advice now on training for it while it's rare. Basically one principle is that the dog should associate you coming closer or examining its 'prize' with something better happening. Just dominating him out of it won't work, because it's not dominance-related. A trainer will give you more advice.

As for being startled while he sleeps- that's normal. For about a second after they wake up dogs, like us, have no idea of what's happening, where they are etc. My own dog has woken up out of what, at the risk of anthropomorphizing, appears to be a nightmare, growled and turned, and then realised it was just the other dog.

MrYlad

DBB wrote: »

Regarding the first issue, you can put to bed concerns about him asserting his dominance over you... Dogs don't do dominance hierarchies, it's all a myth....

....Have a read of these articles, written by a couple of the top qualified behaviourists around: ....

....To address your post, your dog is absolutely showing affection when he's putting his paws on you and doing as you describe in your first paragraph (assuming he's not growling or showing any signs of aggression in the process)....

....Your second problem is a little more serious, and one that seems to be common enough in Golden Retrievers.....

....There are too many cowboys out there to let you just look up the phone book, so if you let us know where you're based, hopefully someone can recommend a good, qualified behaviourist to you.....

That's great to hear!! I can't wait to cuddle on the ground with him now :D

I'll definitely give those articles a read, thanks for the effort

No he's certainly not growling while doing that, I still think I'll prevent it as I'd rather he didn't do it when visitors come around.

For the second problem: I'm sorry to hear that, but glad I know. I'd hate for it to get out of hand.

I'm based in Carlow, so if anyone knows any good behaviourists in that region, I'd love to hear about them. Thanks very much for your detailed post.

MrYlad

chillybilly wrote: »

Re: the first issue, I think he's just being affectionate! My dog does it as well, although he's a lot smaller so it's not as uncomfortable. He'll often do it when he's scared, cold or just after a cuddle.

Ye he's very large, but it's not uncomfortable as he seems to be aware of his size and is rather gentle, so I don't mind. But I think having him try it with visitors is something I want to avoid.

MrYlad

tk123 wrote: »

(I have 2 retrievers)

For the sitting - this is normal for retrievers. They love nothing better than trying to crush each other to death when playing and my girl would also sit up on us like that for company.....

For the growling. This really depends on the type of growl....

If your boy is resource guarding then you need to train him to not think that you're going to take the rabbit or whatever he has off him...

As you have kids a session with a behaviourist would be a really good idea. In hindsight having had 2 sessions for other issues a session for the resource guarding would have saved me a LOT of time with this(!) Our sessions were with Emmaline from http://www.citizencanineireland.com/ and were brilliant and great fun for the dogs too.

I'll definitely take your tips on board, I think getting a good behaviourist to help seems to be best option. Also, I actually don't have kids, but when friends and relations call I am always ultra paranoid. Aside from any agression, I feel as though he's too big for young kids, maybe he will pacify with age.

MrYlad

Latatian wrote: »

It's likely just affection. I have two dogs, one of which rules the roost, and they will rest their heads on each other without any bother. No reason to tolerate it, you can ask him to go lie somewhere else, not to do that etc., but also no real need to worry about who's in charge.

Resource guarding is also not so much a 'dominance' thing- for a dog, possession is 9/10 of the law. Once you have it, it's yours, once you drop it, it's anyone else's, regardless of rank. Guarding of this kind is normal. That doesn't mean it's not something you should train for- it's also 'normal' for dogs to defecate wherever they like and we don't let them do that, lots of natural behaviours are undesirable. Better to get good advice now on training for it while it's rare. Basically one principle is that the dog should associate you coming closer or examining its 'prize' with something better happening. Just dominating him out of it won't work, because it's not dominance-related. A trainer will give you more advice.

As for being startled while he sleeps- that's normal. For about a second after they wake up dogs, like us, have no idea of what's happening, where they are etc. My own dog has woken up out of what, at the risk of anthropomorphizing, appears to be a nightmare, growled and turned, and then realised it was just the other dog.

Thanks for all the info and guidance, I'll take it all on board. I'm going to read up on resource gaurding now and see what the best course of action is. Thanks again

ElKavo

Is it like this? LOL dogs are funny.

MrYlad

ElKavo wrote: »

Is it like this? LOL dogs are funny.

Hahaha, just like that!

sillysmiles

to be honest, I don't think he'd try it with visitors as it is more than likely he just wants you.

MrYlad

sillysmiles wrote: »

to be honest, I don't think he'd try it with visitors as it is more than likely he just wants you.

Trust me, he tries it with visitors all the time. He loves EVERYONE!

Nalz

ElKavo wrote: »

Is it like this? LOL dogs are funny.

Immediately thought of this when I saw this thread! It's doing the rounds on facebook.

sillysmiles

MrYlad wrote: »

Trust me, he tries it with visitors all the time. He loves EVERYONE!

He sounds adorable.
I work on the principle that the dog lives there; visitors don't. So I'm not restricting my dogs enjoyment of something simple and harmless for the few times there are visitors there that mind. (most of my visitors are dog friendly!)

Latatian

Jean Donaldson wrote a book called 'Mine' that's supposed to be quite good, though also short. I haven't read it myself though.

DBB

Latatian wrote: »

Jean Donaldson wrote a book called 'Mine' that's supposed to be quite good, though also short. I haven't read it myself though.

It is short. But in fact it's too long
Whilst the info in it is very good, it almost over eggs the treatment... There are soooo many steps that many an owner would just give up, or end up skipping the more important steps.
Still though, it gets the gist of the problem and the treatment across!

Posy

I was told when playing tug-of-war with my dog, I'm always supposed to win because otherwise she'll think she's 'alpha dog'.

So that was all crap? I feel terrible now!

DBB

Posy wrote: »

I was told when playing tug-of-war with my dog, I'm always supposed to win because otherwise she'll think she's 'alpha dog'.

So that was all crap? I feel terrible now!

It's not so much that she'll think she's "alpha", because the construct simply doesn't exist for dogs (or wolves).
However, what can happen is, if Person A lets a dog get away with murder, and Person B is more inclined to apply some rules and boundaries, the dog learns that Person A can be a bit of a pushover, and may be inclined to take more liberties with Person A as a result, whilst being more respectful and polite with Person B. It's the same with kids... We all knew there were things we could ask one parent for that we wouldn't dare ask the other parent for!
When it comes to tug-of-war games, it's a good idea to teach your dog to let go on cue, so that you can both have fun but you can curtail and stop the game if you have to, for example if the dog is getting too worked up. That said, it depends very much on the dog too... There are some dogs that you can play tug-of-war with aaallll dayyyy loonnnnggg and they'll never get over-the-top excited, or that can win 100% of the games without building up any expectations of winning... They just enjoy the interaction for its own sake