public or private?

jessaj

I'm having a hard time deciding where to go career-wise and I'm hoping posting here might get some different perspectives.

Basically, there is a good chance that I will be offered a job in the public service in the near future, and I am trying to decide whether I should take it or not. My main concerns are that the salary while liveable, I think would be significantly less than what I would get in the private sector, and that the work itself may not be that interesting to me - more procedural than analytical.

Since it's not really practical to come and go from the public sector, I'm considering turning the job down and getting some experience in the private sector first.

However, having seen the numbers of people willing to take significant pay cuts to work in public sector jobs, I wonder whether I'm being hasty. Money is not hugely important to me, but time is - what initially drew me to the job was the flexitime, job-sharing and shorter-working year possibilities, but I'm wary having been told that these schemes are not guaranteed, but at the discretion of the relevant manager.

Are there other benefits to the public sector that I'm not picking up on? Any general advice? I've gone back and forth on it a lot, and seem to flip-flop on a decision every other day, which is beginning to cause a lot of stress, so I would like to just make a final decision.

GalwayGrrrrrl

jessaj wrote: »

I'm having a hard time deciding where to go career-wise and I'm hoping posting here might get some different perspectives.

Basically, there is a good chance that I will be offered a job in the public service in the near future, and I am trying to decide whether I should take it or not. My main concerns are that the salary while liveable, I think would be significantly less than what I would get in the private sector, and that the work itself may not be that interesting to me - more procedural than analytical.

Since it's not really practical to come and go from the public sector, I'm considering turning the job down and getting some experience in the private sector first.

However, having seen the numbers of people willing to take significant pay cuts to work in public sector jobs, I wonder whether I'm being hasty. Money is not hugely important to me, but time is - what initially drew me to the job was the flexitime, job-sharing and shorter-working year possibilities, but I'm wary having been told that these schemes are not guaranteed, but at the discretion of the relevant manager.

Are there other benefits to the public sector that I'm not picking up on? Any general advice? I've gone back and forth on it a lot, and seem to flip-flop on a decision every other day, which is beginning to cause a lot of stress, so I would like to just make a final decision.

In my area of work the main benefit of working in the public sector is job security. I used to work in the private sector (pharmaceutical company). There was constant mergers, changes in structure etc that meant your role was never safe and you were always at risk of either redundancy or moving departments. Ok for a young person with no commitments but less desirable once you have a mortgage and family. My salary is lower now in public sector and job less glamorous but it's stable and that's a nice feeling.

jessaj

Thanks for your reply. I certainly understand why you value job security, but like you said, I am 28 and have no dependants or loans and this is not a major concern at the moment. Like a lot of the other benefits, I think this is something that would be far more important to me in 5 years or so, which is why I'm thinking of getting experience elsewhere first. At the same time it seems stupid to turn down an opportunity when it comes so I want to be as sure as I can be.

Do you have any insight on the practical likelihood of getting job-sharing or shorter working year schemes? I know it will be different in every organisation and department, just wondering whether in general it is commonly granted or not.

I don't like to generalise, but a few people who have worked with or as contractors in various agencies in the public sector have said things are very slow and bureaucratic, and that it is frustrating and difficult to get things done. I know this is a bit of a stereotype, but did you notice major differences in work culture going from private to public?

uch

If the job spec say's you can avail of flexitime, then you can take it that it will definitely be available, generally workshare will be available after your probationary period is over.
As regards being frustrating and bureaucratic, it really depends what area you will be going into, I work in ICT in one of the large Government depts and it is quite dynamic, you have exposure to almost every technology available and can move around internal ICT depts reasonably freely to further your experience.

GalwayGrrrrrl

jessaj wrote: »

Thanks for your reply. I certainly understand why you value job security, but like you said, I am 28 and have no dependants or loans and this is not a major concern at the moment. Like a lot of the other benefits, I think this is something that would be far more important to me in 5 years or so, which is why I'm thinking of getting experience elsewhere first. At the same time it seems stupid to turn down an opportunity when it comes so I want to be as sure as I can be.

Do you have any insight on the practical likelihood of getting job-sharing or shorter working year schemes? I know it will be different in every organisation and department, just wondering whether in general it is commonly granted or not.

I don't like to generalise, but a few people who have worked with or as contractors in various agencies in the public sector have said things are very slow and bureaucratic, and that it is frustrating and difficult to get things done. I know this is a bit of a stereotype, but did you notice major differences in work culture going from private to public?

The shorter working hours and speed of getting things done varies between departments so it's hard to give an answer on that.

urban sprawl

What is your area of work, OP? Finance, IT, general admin, other? The public sector is quite diverse and opportunities vary according to specialisation. To be honest if your main reason for taking a public sector job is the benefits or unless you are being recruited at a relatively senior level, I'd give it a miss. If you are not particulalry motivated by pubic service or interested in the work you're likely to be doing, the public sector might not be for you.

beauf

Most of the things you are asking about vary enormously depending on the job, and where it is. Unless job security is critical. I would say stay private based on what you've asked.

2011

Don't forget that public sector pensions are vastly superior to those available to the private sector.

beauf

2011 wrote: »

Don't forget that public sector pensions are vastly superior to those available to the private sector.

That depends on how many years you do, the salary you end up on. 40yrs is a long time to be in job waiting for a pension if you don't like the job.

Halloween Jack

beauf wrote: »

That depends on how many years you do, the salary you end up on. 40yrs is a long time to be in job waiting for a pension if you don't like the job.

As a younger civil servant I don't have much faith in my pension agreement being honoured in 30 odd years tbh, not sure the money will be there

beauf

jessaj wrote: »

...getting job-sharing or shorter working year schemes? ...

This would also have a negative effect on a pension.

2011

beauf wrote: »

That depends on how many years you do, the salary you end up on. 40yrs is a long time to be in job waiting for a pension if you don't like the job.

My point still stands.

I say this as the son of an excivil servant that enjoys an excellent pension.

beauf

Will someone joining now, not intending to do full service get a similar pension to your parent. No. So its not a valid comparison.

Also if you might do better in the private sector career wise than in the public sector. The opportunities are very different and can't be compared directly. Or you might do better in the public sector. Would a plumber working for the public sector do better than someone self employed. No pension, other what they fund. But they might have their own company.

I think it would depend very much on the person.

Halloween Jack

I'll add a few observations, firstly there are good jobs in the public sector, but landing them can have a lot to do with luck if you apply for a grade rather than a specific position. (I'd imagine the AO grade would be somewhat of an exception to this rule, they are generally good posts). Secondly while in general departments are pretty good for funding further education for staff, don't necessarily expect to be able to use those skills/quals in work, it's not always a given that if you do say accounting exams they'll move you to accounts. In general things are pretty illiquid in terms of moving around/advancement etc.

In saying that things are starting to move a bit better now and thee is a lot to be said for the security and general excellent life/work balance.

2011

beauf wrote: »

Will someone joining now, not intending to do full service get a similar pension to your parent.

I would think that a person starting now and working in the public sector for 5, 10 or 15 years can reasonably expect to enjoy a superior pension relating to this work than someone working in the private sector for the same period of time. This is why I believe that my point still stands.

The opportunities are very different and can't be compared directly.

I agree, it is very difficult to make a fair comparison.

The_Conductor

2011 wrote: »

I would think that a person starting now and working in the public sector for 5, 10 or 15 years can reasonably expect to enjoy a superior pension relating to this work than someone working in the private sector for the same period of time. This is why I believe that my point still stands.

If you factor in the higher private sector salaries- and the simple fact that many private sector employers will match pension contributions- particularly for a younger worker- someone in the private sector could be significantly better off after 5-10-15 years......

In addition- its very dangerous to look at what a current public sector pensioner gets- and to make any assumption that a future public sector employee will get a package even approaching that of a current pensioner.

1. Public sector pensions are based on career average salaries for new starts- not final salary pensions.

2. Public sector employees who started after 1995- are expected to claim the contributory old age pension as the major part of their pension. I.e. even after 40 years service- if they are under the age at which the contributory old age pension vests- they may get nothing. This has been raised in the Dáil a few times- the response is that someone retiring at 65-66 with 40 years service- can claim unemployment assistance until age 67 (or 68 from 2018- heading rapidly towards age 70)....... Aka- a current employee- may have to rely on unemployment assistance for the first few years of their retirement.

3. COPC calculations are used to reduce the exposure of Public Sector Salary Payment sections- to new pension disbursements. E.g.- a current employee with 40 years service, is entitled to 50% of their gross salary as a pension. If their gross weekly income was 500 Euro (not unusual) half of this is 250 Euro. The current rate of old age pension payment is perhaps 230 Euro a week- so the person gets a public sector weekly pension of 20 Euro. If they are not entitled to claim the contributory old age pension (for whatever reason- including the fact that they're under 68 years of age)- their sole entitlement is that 20 Euro a week- and they can instead try for unemployment assistance- however, they have to be actively seeking employment.......

Looking at a current public pensioner- and imagining it is any way relevant to a future pensioner- is very very dangerous- and very very false. No public sector employee in future- will ever be treated in a manner akin to how current pensioners are treated.

Mrs OBumble

OP, in terms of career benefits, it really depends on what area you work in, and also whether you can get into more diverse head-office type roles vs being stuck in a local/regional (whatever you call it) office in a transaction processing type role.

If you can get into a more diverse role, and make friends with a wide range of people - some of who will be important public servants in your field in 5-10-20 years time - then you may be a very valuable employee to certain private sector companies just because of who you know.

This can be a motivating factor for some people to get public sector experience while they're young, and leave for greener private-sector pastures once the government has paid for them to become well qualified!

beauf

I was making a different point. A person might have unrealistic expectations of a PS pension (and Work/Life balance) if they don't do full service vs paying for your own pension. They will have a different mindset. Especially if they are looking at someone who retired at a high salary in PS with full service.

esforum

2011 wrote: »

My point still stands.

I say this as the son of an excivil servant that enjoys an excellent pension.

what does your private sector parent get in pension payments? (The pension your parent gets is different to what cirrent workers are entitled to by the way)

2011 wrote: »

I would think that a person starting now and working in the public sector for 5, 10 or 15 years can reasonably expect to enjoy a superior pension relating to this work than someone working in the private sector for the same period of time.

Based on what evidence? Between 1996 and 2006 private pensions far outweighed their public counterparts, if the economy tops again then so will private pensions. Pensions are based on what you pay in and for how long. The only difference is all public pensions are defined whereas most private ones arent but can be if you want. Also, most private workers dont pay pension contributions for 40 years as they tend to only think about it in their late 30's early 40's, very rare someone under 30 will have a private pension already established.

OP, public sector offers oppertunities to move around and job security however the money will never be great and for most people, the job not exciting. Private sector tens to be more demanding (in general, of course career areas fluctuate in this regards) and have better money but you can see your company change overnight and / or be sacked.

Dont be fooled by what you read though, public sector salaries are no more guaranteed than private ones. I woke up one morning to find I was earning 10% less than the day before.

beauf

Also (depending where you are) promotional opportunities are a little different in PS. With embargo's running for years, or pay frozen etc. Moving laterally might put you in a worse or better position. All of which effects pension etc.