Law Breaking Cyclists

Roadhawk

I am going on a limb here by saying that there is nowhere on this forum to post about the wrong doings of cyclists. I am fully aware of the pro’s to cycling being health, well-being and environment, etc that come with cycling but there is never any focus on the elephant in the room being that cyclists break the law continuously and deliberately. I am aware that this is a very tender topic for some so as there is a massive drive to increase the number of cyclists on our roads but all pro campaigners give out about the motorists and their law breaking and lack of consideration for cyclists and do not give any reference to the actions of cyclists. It is clear that there are much more dangers for cyclists on the roads (mainly down to the exposure of being on a bicycle) but they still persist to break laws putting themselves mainly in danger. Have you previously encountered cyclists breaking laws? Share your experience and any views.
Just to be clear I am not stating that all cyclists behave this way not am I implying that motorists are saints on the road.
I have previously been silenced on raising this topic so I would ask anyone to post to please take into consideration that this is a very sensitive subject and not to insult anyone in this thread.

seamus

This is not the forum for the discussion really, you could try politics or After Hours.

The general gist of it though is that cycling injuries and deaths are so low and the dangers posed both to and by cyclists so minimal in comparison to larger vehicles that focussing additional Garda resources on cyclists alone doesn't represent a meaningful use of limited resources. Everyone on the road breaks the law continuously and deliberately. There is very little be gained by focussing on cyclists specifically.

The issue of law-breaking around bikes is more of a public order issue than a public safety one - i.e. it's annoying and irritating, but it's not causing any exceptional amounts of deaths or injuries.

cajonlardo

seamus wrote: »

This is not the forum for the discussion really, you could try politics or After Hours. .

He did try.

Lots of times.

Roadhawk

cajonlardo wrote: »

He did try.

Lots of times.

Try staying on topic, thanks

ArmaniJeanss

Theres an Irish Cycling Legislation thread open in the cycling forum and you are contributing to that (albeit most disagree with you, cest la vie).

What are you hoping to achieve in this thread?

cajonlardo

Roadhawk wrote: »

Try staying on topic, thanks

It was a direct reply, complete with quote, to the post. If you don't want replies don't open threads

BTW,

Have you asked yourself why YOU are experiencing such trouble and angst with cyclists?

I have over 35 years driving experience including emergency vehicles and other demanding driving roles. I've not experienced any measurable problems with cyclists - certainly not a single incidence whilst under blue lights. Also recall a lifelong driver with over 2 million miles experience saying if cyclist were the worst of problems on the roads we'd be fine.

Roadhawk

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

Theres an Irish Cycling Legislation thread open in the cycling forum and you are contributing to that (albeit most disagree with you, cest la vie).

What are you hoping to achieve in this thread?

Well for starters i have not mentioned anything in this tread from that thread so how is this relevant? secondly anything i posted was delete by moderators or i was warned to stay on topic. The last comment in that thread to me was by a moderator suggesting to start my own thread so hear i am...so please stay on topic or dont contribute thanks

LeinsterDub

Actions of cyclist up to and including law breaking very rarely leads to serious injury or death unlike motorist hence the great focus on their actions and campaigns to improve their behaviour

eeeee

On my commute in today on my bike, I stopped at every red light, and witnessed a minimum of 4 cars breaking every one. There are numerous studies out there that confirm the majority of cyclists are law abiding, a vast and overwhelming majority in fact. As mentioned above, the effects of a car breaking lights and a cyclist breaking lights are completely different. Cars kill 220 to 300 people per year on average, cycling…none, 0, nada. In fact an insurance company is offering cyclists cheaper car insurance as they are statistically less likely to be involved in an accident, and are more aware on the roads as motorists. I do not condone cyclists breaking lights, in any way shape or form, it's wrong, illegal and just plain rude. However, if it exercises you so much I would suggest you consider why you have such an issue with them, as a poster stated above, when the vast and overwhelming majority of people have no problem with them at all. My father was professional driver for over 40 years, cyclists didn't even feature on his radar of issues with road users (although they're not all saints. Some are just pure idiots, the same as there are idiot drivers etc. but they are a tiny minority of all road users).

Roadhawk

gadetra wrote: »

On my commute in today on my bike, I stopped at every red light, and witnessed a minimum of 4 cars breaking every one. There are numerous studies out there that confirm the majority of cyclists are law abiding, a vast and overwhelming majority in fact. As mentioned above, the effects of a car breaking lights and a cyclist breaking lights are completely different. Cars kill 220 to 300 people per year on average, cycling…none, 0, nada. In fact an insurance company is offering cyclists cheaper car insurance as they are statistically less likely to be involved in an accident, and are more aware on the roads as motorists. I do not condone cyclists breaking lights, in any way shape or form, it's wrong, illegal and just plain rude. However, if it exercises you so much I would suggest you consider why you have such an issue with them, as a poster stated above, when the vast and overwhelming majority of people have no problem with them at all. My father was professional driver for over 40 years, cyclists didn't even feature on his radar of issues with road users (although they're not all saints. Some are just pure idiots, the same as there are idiot drivers etc. but they are a tiny minority of all road users).

I amglad to hear that you are a law abiding cyclists. I personally would find it hard to believe that you saw 4 cars actually deliberately breaking the lights. I would be really interested if you could point me to these studies showing the majority of cyclists are law abiding.

In relation to how safe it is to cycle this is was I found:
Going by stats taken by the Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport this year their survey published on 3/08/2015 confirmed that there was 2,515,322 motorists using Irish roads Consisting of (1,943,868 private cars; 317,378 goods vehicles; 85,042 agricultural vehicles and 36,573 motorcycles.). This year is was confirmed that 1.3% of the population cycle. The current population is 4.8 million so 62,400 people cycle in Ireland (this figure does not account for tourists). From 1 Jan 2015 to 31 July 2015, 41 drivers, 16 passengers, 18 pedestrians, 12 motorcyclists and 5 cyclists have been killed on Irish roads. That is a total of 87 deaths for 2,515,322 motorists versus 5 deaths to 62,400 cyclists. 1 in every 12,480 cyclists died on Irish roads as opposed to 1 in every 28,912 motorists. Therefore, cycling is significantly a more dangerous mode of transport.

http: //www. dttas. ie/press-releases/2015/minister-donohoe-publishes-seven-month-review-road-fatalities
http: //www. dttas. ie/sites/default/files/publications/corporate/english/transport-trends/transport-trends-2015-final-3.pdf

TheChizler

Roadhawk wrote: »

I amglad to hear that you are a law abiding cyclists. I personally would find it hard to believe that you saw 4 cars actually deliberately breaking the lights. I would be really interested if you could point me to these studies showing the majority of cyclists are law abiding.

In relation to how safe it is to cycle this is was I found:
Going by stats taken by the Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport this year their survey published on 3/08/2015 confirmed that there was 2,515,322 motorists using Irish roads Consisting of (1,943,868 private cars; 317,378 goods vehicles; 85,042 agricultural vehicles and 36,573 motorcycles.). This year is was confirmed that 1.3% of the population cycle. The current population is 4.8 million so 62,400 people cycle in Ireland (this figure does not account for tourists). From 1 Jan 2015 to 31 July 2015, 41 drivers, 16 passengers, 18 pedestrians, 12 motorcyclists and 5 cyclists have been killed on Irish roads. That is a total of 87 deaths for 2,515,322 motorists versus 5 deaths to 62,400 cyclists. 1 in every 12,480 cyclists died on Irish roads as opposed to 1 in every 28,912 motorists. Therefore, cycling is significantly a more dangerous mode of transport.

http: //www. dttas. ie/press-releases/2015/minister-donohoe-publishes-seven-month-review-road-fatalities
http: //www. dttas. ie/sites/default/files/publications/corporate/english/transport-trends/transport-trends-2015-final-3.pdf

Assuming those figures are correct... How many of those were caused by lawbreaking cyclists? Seeing as that's the main theme of the OP.

ArmaniJeanss

Roadhawk wrote: »

In relation to how safe it is to cycle this is was I found:
Going by stats taken by the Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport this year their survey published on 3/08/2015 confirmed that there was 2,515,322 motorists using Irish roads Consisting of (1,943,868 private cars; 317,378 goods vehicles; 85,042 agricultural vehicles and 36,573 motorcycles.). This year is was confirmed that 1.3% of the population cycle. The current population is 4.8 million so 62,400 people cycle in Ireland (this figure does not account for tourists). From 1 Jan 2015 to 31 July 2015, 41 drivers, 16 passengers, 18 pedestrians, 12 motorcyclists and 5 cyclists have been killed on Irish roads. That is a total of 87 deaths for 2,515,322 motorists versus 5 deaths to 62,400 cyclists. 1 in every 12,480 cyclists died on Irish roads as opposed to 1 in every 28,912 motorists. Therefore, cycling is significantly a more dangerous mode of transport.

It reads as if you have the taken the total number of motorised vehicles as being equal to the total number of motorists. Which is clearly nonsense.

Paz-CCFC

Roadhawk wrote: »

I amglad to hear that you are a law abiding cyclists. I personally would find it hard to believe that you saw 4 cars actually deliberately breaking the lights. I would be really interested if you could point me to these studies showing the majority of cyclists are law abiding.

We live in a society where one is innocent until proven guilty. Everyone is entitled to be assumed to be law-abiding unless the contrary is shown. The onus is on you to cite research suggesting that the majority aren't, not vice versa.

coylemj

Bad enough that the OP is only a wet week (two months) on boards but is already modding his duplicate thread and suggesting what people can and can't post - he/she started same thread over in Motors almost two hours after this one ....

Roadhawk wrote: »

Try staying on topic, thanks

IMHO this is not a legal issue and is simply going to cover ground that has been well trodden in multiple threads, none of which went anywhere.

Sam Kade

Some drama Queen cyclist, what cyclist goes around with front and back cameras. The driver left plenty space for him but it looks like he just wanted to be a drama Queen and confront someone.

hullaballoo

Moderator:

This isn't the WHERE ELSE CAN I FLOG THIS DEAD HORSE FORUM, it's Legal Discussion. I'm not even sure how a discussion about any group of road users' propensity to offend against the RTAs fits into this forum in the first place, even if it wasn't just a soap-boxing opportunity.

Roadhawk, please do not start any more threads on this topic here. For the sake of your longevity on this site, I wouldn't start any elsewhere either.

Oh, and leave the moderating to the moderators.