New Transport for Ireland logo

icdg

Just noticed this on adverts on Irish Rail and checked the website - sure enough, Transport for Ireland - or TFI as suppose we should call it now- has a new logo.

I'm not sure it was needed when the public were only just starting to become familiar with the original one, and indeed it hadn't been fully rolled out yet. Further the new logo is just the letters "TFI" in a green square. Why the change now? It seems oddly timed.

Vic_08

Because that is what Irish quangos do.

Commission reports, hire consultants, engage in rebranding exercises, organise fact-finding expeditions to the far corners of the earth, unveil exciting new plans, basically anything that doesn't involve actually doing the basic boring job of providing the essential public services they are supposedly there to manage.

GM228

Isn't that their third logo now?

I have it in my head that there was an A to B logo originally, then the last logo with the reversed C and now this one.

crushproof

icdg wrote: »

Just noticed this on adverts on Irish Rail and checked the website - sure enough, Transport for Ireland - or TFI as suppose we should call it now- has a new logo.

I'm not sure it was needed when the public were only just starting to become familiar with the original one, and indeed it hadn't been fully rolled out yet. Further the new logo is just the letters "TFI" in a green square. Why the change now? It seems oddly timed.

Sure the current logo was already 5 or so years old!! Come on, they had to spend (I presume) tens of thousands on a pointless new design rather than spend it on something useful. Similar to the constant changing of DART logos, Dublin bus/Irish Rail liveries etc....

coylemj

Vic_08 wrote: »

Because that is what Irish quangos do.

Commission reports, hire consultants, engage in rebranding exercises, organise fact-finding expeditions to the far corners of the earth, unveil exciting new plans, basically anything that doesn't involve actually doing the basic boring job of providing the essential public services they are supposedly there to manage.

+1 When the RSA had money to spend on road projects, they had three phases for each project, all involving external consultants. First they employed consultants to put together the request for tender (RFT) document, this was then published and the various companies interested would submit tenders. Another firm of consultants was then employed to assist the RSA in evaluating the tenders and selecting the winning tender.

Not content with paying other people to do the jobs they were supposed to be doing themselves, when that project was completed the RSA then employed yet another firm of consultants to perform an audit on the project to make sure they were getting value for money. No doubt anyone who had the balls to tell them they were ripped off would probably not get any more business so the whole thing ended up as a mutual backslapping club.

Grandeeod

Vic_08 wrote: »

Because that is what Irish quangos do.

Commission reports, hire consultants, engage in rebranding exercises, organise fact-finding expeditions to the far corners of the earth, unveil exciting new plans, basically anything that doesn't involve actually doing the basic boring job of providing the essential public services they are supposedly there to manage.

And don't forget that the rail operator, despite being in financial dire straits, also engaged in a rebrand.

tabbey

NTA is firstly a waste of money, but more importantly, prevents efficient communication between the service providers, and their shareholder and paymaster, namely the transport minister.
Quangos are unaccountable to the public, and ministers, who should be accountable, cover themselves by saying - that is an operating matter for quango x, y, or z.
Changing a logo, is just another excuse to waste money.

Cookie_Monster

Grandeeod wrote: »

And don't forget that the rail operator, despite being in financial dire straits, also engaged in a rebrand.

when are IE not engaged in a rebrand ever?

macroman

The tv ad and publicity photos feature a very lost 140 on South Lotts Rd with an obsolete scroll for St. Margarets Rd. I hope the driver didn't turn it into a single decker with the low bridge there.

devnull

I don't believe the NTA are a waste of money, they have a long list of achievements, but they're by no means perfect and there was no real need for a rebrand and a new logo which is wasting money.

MrMorooka

macroman wrote: »

The tv ad and publicity photos feature a very lost 140 on South Lotts Rd with an obsolete scroll for St. Margarets Rd. I hope the driver didn't turn it into a single decker with the low bridge there.

http://www.transportforireland.ie/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/We-are-all-about-the-city.jpg

Are you sure it's South Lotts Rd? I can't place it very well, the woman is in a shop/cafe with the road behind her. Doesn't seem to match anywhere around there.

Del.Monte

devnull wrote: »

I don't believe the NTA are a waste of money, they have a long list of achievements, but they're by no means perfect and there was no real need for a rebrand and a new logo which is wasting money.

The Western Rail Corridor while allowing IE to snip off the Rosslare/Waterford section of the route springs to mind. The NTA is just another barrier between the minister and accountability.

noelfirl

MrMorooka wrote: »

http://www.transportforireland.ie/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/We-are-all-about-the-city.jpg

Are you sure it's South Lotts Rd? I can't place it very well, the woman is in a shop/cafe with the road behind her. Doesn't seem to match anywhere around there.

Hither:

https://goo.gl/maps/3nWsUzTuN3r

You can spin about in the photo sphere to see the angle.

While the new logo might be a waste of money (and without saying it is justified), there might be ongoing savings as compared to the contraption of an old logo.

I'm also slightly wondering how/why 'TFI' have gotten away without falling foul of the Official Languages Act with regards to public signage. Not that it's a bad thing.

AlekSmart

coylemj wrote: »

+1 When the RSA had money to spend on road projects, they had three phases for each project, all involving external consultants. First they employed consultants to put together the request for tender (RFT) document,this was then published and the various companies interested would submit tenders. Another firm of consultants was then employed to assist the RSA in evaluating the tenders and selecting the winning tender.

Secret footage of the NTA's New-Logo Sub-Committee in session.....

https://www.facebook.com/jaiganeshdm/videos/764131910271505/

devnull

Del.Monte wrote: »

The Western Rail Corridor while allowing IE to snip off the Rosslare/Waterford section of the route springs to mind. The NTA is just another barrier between the minister and accountability.

Just some of the things
- Provision of Ticket Machines at Dublin Airport
- Leap Card
- Discounts for switching between multiple modes.
- Wifi
- Real Time Information
- Integrated Real Time App with Bus, Train and Luas all in.
- Integrated Route Planner showing ALL public transport services.
- Public Transport Spider Maps showing ALL operators.
- Departure and Local Area Boards at Airports, Stations and high traffic areas for ALL Operators.
- Visitor Leap Card
- Student Leap Card virtually cutting all student travel fraud
- Automatic discounts with Leap 90
- Fare Capping
- Onboard Passenger Information (screens/voice)
- Cycling Planner
- Walking Planner
- Higher spec double deck buses
- An increase in the double decker allocation in regional ciites
- Taxi Fare Estimator

The NTA has done a lot of work on integration because the companies even when they had their own free will did nothing over man years since they were too busy squabbling among themselves whilst forgetting that they were supposed to be serving the public who funds them. They couldn't even integrate with sister companies of each other, let alone public transport as a whole.

The fact that Dublin Bus shortly after the launch of the NTA route maps, started doing their own after many years gap, save for missing out any companies who did not suit them, followed swiftly by mass handouts of same maps in the city centre, and the NTA Real time app marketing campaign followed by a big Dublin Bus marketing campaign for their own app and the fact that Dublin Bus persist with their own very poor route planner rather than use the NTA one which is far superior, but again contains other companies timetables so that cannot be used by Dublin Bus.


The whole argument about having a publicly owned bus service is that it should be run for the benefit of the public instead of for the benefit of certain companies or certain groups or commercial interests and for the benefit of the traveling public. But what they also do, is they won't use the NTA Journey Planner, NTA Real Time App or the NTA Maps, since they are worried that it would harm their company even if it would make things better and more transparent and easier for the actual traveling public that it's claimed is the number one priority in a publicly owned bus service.

The above two paragraphs, basically show you exactly why the NTA is needed, because Dublin Bus, despite the fact it's a public company, supposed to be run for the benefit of the public, has shown that it will happily go in the opposite direction for the greater good, or public transport in general as long as it does what is in it's own interests. This happens with any company who has a large slice of a pie in any particular industry whether operators are public or private, there needs to be a regulator in transport in any country regardless of the way it is structured.

I agree that Irish Rail without doubt are the area where there are the most problems, but there seems to be a popular conciousness among CIE fans and staff on here and enthusiasts of CIE rather than of public transport that if Irish Rail do something wrong it's the NTA's fault but if they do something right it's because they had a great idea that made it to fruition despite the NTA.

MrMorooka

noelfirl wrote: »

Hither:

https://goo.gl/maps/3nWsUzTuN3r

You can spin about in the photo sphere to see the angle.

Ah, thanks, that shop wasn't there when I lived near the area, or when the Google car was there.

howiya

MrMorooka wrote: »

Ah, thanks, that shop wasn't there when I lived near the area, or when the Google car was there.

There since at least October. Remember passing it on the way to the Ireland Germany game. Big write up on it today on lovindublin.com

http://lovindublin.com/reviews/posh/hands-down-the-best-foodie-shop-in-dublin

bk

Del.Monte wrote: »

The Western Rail Corridor while allowing IE to snip off the Rosslare/Waterford section of the route springs to mind. The NTA is just another barrier between the minister and accountability.

Actually the NTA were vehemently against the WRC, but in the end were overruled by the politicans who wanted to buy voters in rural Ireland.

Just like how the same politicians have cancelled or delayed Dart Underground and Metro North, vital public transport plans developed and championed by the NTA and their predecessors.

devnull

bk wrote: »

Actually the NTA were vehemently against the WRC, but in the end were overruled by the politicans who wanted to buy voters in rural Ireland.

Just like how the same politicians have cancelled or delayed Dart Underground and Metro North, vital public transport plans developed and championed by the NTA and their predecessors.

In general, the people in the NTA are not political appointees. Many of the people in the NTA have served under both this government and the last one, whereas before we had them we had the Department of Transport which was very political and often used as a political football far more than the NTA is.

Of course the NTA still reports to the department which is run by politicians, but they are more independent than what was there before.

bk

devnull wrote: »

In general, the people in the NTA are not political appointees. Many of the people in the NTA have served under both this government and the last one, whereas before we had them we had the Department of Transport which was very political and often used as a political football far more than the NTA is.

Of course the NTA still reports to the department which is run by politicians, but they are more independent than what was there before.

Yes, more independent, but in the end, it is the minister of transport and ultimately the minister of finance who control the money.

And it shows, all of the successful NTA projects you mentioned earlier are relatively (for transport infrastructure) small projects that would fly under the political/media radar. But when it comes to the big projects Luas, DU, MN, it is the politicians who mess them up.

Luas city center connection originally cancelled because politicians fears of pissing off Dublin retailers.

MN and DU delayed and cancelled because of politicians afraid of pissing off rural voters who don't like seeing the cities getting any decent infrastructure investment.

WRC getting green lighted by politicians despite the strong objections of the NTA as they wanted to buy rural votes.

The NTA does have some independence, but unfortunately it only goes so far.

bruno1x

devnull wrote: »

But what they also do, is they won't use the NTA Journey Planner, NTA Real Time App or the NTA Maps, .

Do we know it is free to use these services?
Do companies have to pay a fee to be part of them?

devnull

The companies are already featured on them, all they need to do is link to them and discontinue their stand alone versions, it's not going to cost them anything other than their pride of actually having to admit that other operators actually exist and put the overall public transport picture ahead of what is best for themselves.

By having their own versions, Dublin Bus etc can ensure that only services that they operate and are operated by their sister companies appear. Obviously that would have commercial benefits for Dublin Bus, but Dublin Bus is fully funded for by the state apart from the 747 and the commercial interests of any publicly funded company shouldn't come into it.

If Dublin Bus were a private company I wouldn't care if they had their own stuff or not because at the end of the day they are not being paid for by the taxpayer, but it makes a mockery when a company that is supposed to be being funded by the state to provide services for the benefit of the state, decides that their interests are more important than that of having a properly integrated transport system.

And for avoidance of doubt, if any private operator wins the upcoming tender process, they should be forced to use the NTA Real Time App and journey planner as well rather than making their own. It should apply to all services which are subsidized by the state.

Cookie_Monster

There really is no need for the NTA in the sense that what they do is exactly what the DoT should be doing without having to duplicate all the staffing and infrastructure in yet another quango.

Between the NTA and all the other transport quangos wtf does the dept actually do anymore?

Having said that, there is no doubt they have made a positive difference as the list devnull provide can attest to and their existence alone forces the likes of DB to up their game both directly and indirectly. long way to go still though.

devnull

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

There really is no need for the NTA in the sense that what they do is exactly what the DoT should be doing without having to duplicate all the staffing and infrastructure in yet another quango.

The DOT was far too political, at times it took years for decisions on bus licensing for instance and there were many bus routes and their routing and restrictions which were directly influenced by politicians regardless of the public interest which led to court cases in some instances.

The NTA now has a little bit more freedom and doesn't have a politician watching their every move. From what I understand previously political appointees including the minister had to sign off a lot of things in the DOT in the past, and had the final say on a lot of things. With the NTA, there is not this level of close supervision.

Between the NTA and all the other transport quangos wtf does the dept actually do anymore?

The less stuff in the hands of politicians the better. The way the DOT was run in the past shows you that everything they did was about politics and vote buying as has been previously alluded to here and there was also a tendency for the DOT to do anything they could to keep the state companies happy for political benefit.

magicbastarder

Vic_08 wrote: »

Because that is what Irish quangos do.

not just irish quangos. shedloads of private companies too. in an irish context, eir is an obvious recent example.

devnull

magicbastarder wrote: »

not just irish quangos. shedloads of private companies too. in an irish context, eir is an obvious recent example.

To be feir though, Eircom did have an appalling reputation left by many years of being badly run and was a tired brand with a tired reputation to go with it of being behind the times, they really needed the re brand and as far as rebrands go I think it's pretty good, since it's a full rebrand rather than just a logo change.

bruno1x

devnull wrote: »

The NTA now has a little bit more freedom and doesn't have a politician watching their every move. From what I understand previously political appointees including the minister had to sign off a lot of things in the DOT in the past, and had the final say on a lot of things. With the NTA, there is not this level of close supervision.

This is funny stuff, do you really believe this?

devnull

If I didn't believe it I wouldn't have posted it would I? I'm not saying political interference doesn't go on, but there is less of it than there used to be.

For example, the NTA allowed Dublin Bus to remove certain routes during network direct that were saved from the chop many times by the DOT in the past because it might cost a politician some votes and his/her seat.

If political interference was still apparent, Trevor Patton would have never been rightly put out of business since he had a lot of support in politics but the NTA stuck to their guns.