Can't run anymore - need advice

jon1981

Hi,

Disclaimer - not looking for medical advice or diagnosis.

The last 2-3 years I've tried to get back into running and I just can't due to serious calf tightness which comes on extremely quickly once I start running ( about 5-10 mins into the run). I've gone to a couple of different physios over that time for many months, dry needling, extensive rehab exercises to strengthen the glutes and back...etc. I've gotten a MRI and xray, I've also got orthotics too... spent a fortune over that period and still it's not working.

I'm looking for recommendations on who or where I can go to get really extensive analysis? I'm assuming (I hope) this can be fixable and I've just not found the source of the issue yet. Based in Dublin btw.

thanks
Jon

Murraythree

Could it be the runners you are wearing? Have you looked into this?

jon1981

Murraythree wrote: »

Could it be the runners you are wearing? Have you looked into this?

Yeah, I've gone through a few pairs (asics with orthotics, Mizunos alchemy for overpronation) and no change.

Steroo

Dehydration ? Try alternative foot strike?

Do you stretch for long after runs ?

intheclouds

Are you going zero to hero or building up slowly?

If you can run for 5 minutes without it happening then run for 5 minutes with intervals of say 2 minutes in between. Then slowly increase the run intervals?

Did you used to be able to run?

What happens when the calf tightens? Is it going into a cramp? Is it possible to push through?

Also does it happen regardless of speed?

jon1981

Steroo wrote: »

Dehydration ? Try alternative foot strike?

Do you stretch for long after runs ?

Yes, I drink about 2-3L of water daily. I've tried not to run on the balls of my feet and roll from heel to toe. I tend to stretch daily, in the shower, when I wake up. I also stretch after runs, quads, glutes calfs and some foam rolling.

Are you going zero to hero or building up slowly?

If you can run for 5 minutes without it happening then run for 5 minutes with intervals of say 2 minutes in between. Then slowly increase the run intervals?

Did you used to be able to run?

What happens when the calf tightens? Is it going into a cramp? Is it possible to push through?

Also does it happen regardless of speed?

I'm 34 now, about 7 years ago I used to be able to run quite well, would do 5km in 21 minutes which I was happy with and never had pains. I stopped running for about 4 years with only doing some weights and cycling. About 2-3 yrs ago I started back (it was short lived) playing 5aside football and slight jogging and I was getting seriously sore calves and pins and needles in my foot so had to stop, it was at this point I began seeing physios to correct it as I really wanted to get back into being able to run.

It's strange , I can walk for miles with no issues but can't run. I should note that I do need the orthotics, in flat shoes/runners walking can be quite sore on the calves.

I'm near the point of giving up but I'd like to try other avenues that are open to investigate further. Perhaps I'm just not being patient enough.

intheclouds

I've found Mick Spillane in Clondalkin pretty good in the past.

What happens if you run slowly (5k in 21 mins is fast).

jon1981

intheclouds wrote: »

I've found Mick Spillane in Clondalkin pretty good in the past.

What happens if you run slowly (5k in 21 mins is fast).

oh that 21 min time was long time ago

If I run slow it gradually ends up the same. When I say slow like 7-8kph, i'd get about 1km down the road and the pain is setting in, my calves are rock hard at that point, i stop stretch out the calves and go again, about another 500m down the road, the pain is too much.

intheclouds

Fair enough.

You got a tight calves issue anyway! What's your job? Is it sedentary? Tight calves and weak glutes often go together (I'm suffering myself at the moment).

You need to look at your biomechanics as a whole. You've imbalance somewhere. It's so hard to find someone to look at this holistically.

jon1981

Yeah desk bound in software industry.

I was looking at the running clinic in danger sports clinic with consultant Dr Millar. It's 300 for an hours consultancy but I'm hoping he can do a more thorough biomechanical analysis.

Any experiences anyone?

Yintang

Try taking a glass of quinine tonic water daily, works amazingly well for restless leg syndrome, muscle cramping etc. Definitely worth a try.

Ruddock25

jon1981 wrote: »

Hi,

Disclaimer - not looking for medical advice or diagnosis.

The last 2-3 years I've tried to get back into running and I just can't due to serious calf tightness which comes on extremely quickly once I start running ( about 5-10 mins into the run). I've gone to a couple of different physios over that time for many months, dry needling, extensive rehab exercises to strengthen the glutes and back...etc. I've gotten a MRI and xray, I've also got orthotics too... spent a fortune over that period and still it's not working.

I'm looking for recommendations on who or where I can go to get really extensive analysis? I'm assuming (I hope) this can be fixable and I've just not found the source of the issue yet. Based in Dublin btw.

thanks
Jon

Hi
sounds like chronic exertional compartment syndrome.Get your pre and post exertion compartment pressures measured and see it they increase.They do it in Santry and Cappagh and in some hospital vascular surgery departments.
Or just find a physio who has treated it and see how that goes

_Tombstone_

update?

Merrion

Try running barefoot (on a softer surface like the beach for grass)?

jon1981

no update as yet, been very busy in work and cycling the last few months. Planning to get around to making a Santry appointment over the next few weeks.

_Tombstone_

jon1981 wrote: »

no update as yet, been very busy in work and cycling the last few months. Planning to get around to making a Santry appointment over the next few weeks.

I had same as you, its your Job, your muscles are non existent/mush. Running is just constantly annoying the calf. Here's what you try - the Insanity Workout, 60 days, at home, no equipment needed.

You'll wonder why you ever wasted time Running - for general fitness anyway - when you start Insanity or P90X3 or Max30 or a Jillian Michaels...lots more. You might not run again after! Except for sunny days, the only time it's worth it.

Physios, I'd been to 3, they're a step above edit* worse than useless if ya ask me.

_Tombstone_

And get someone to rub the Sh1te outta the calf after doing it! Rub some of that organic coconut in Dunnes on the calf and get someone to show no mercy with their elbows, especially on the bit above the Achilles.

Peterx

jon1981 wrote: »

Hi,

Disclaimer - not looking for medical advice or diagnosis.

The last 2-3 years I've tried to get back into running and I just can't due to serious calf tightness which comes on extremely quickly once I start running ( about 5-10 mins into the run). I've gone to a couple of different physios over that time for many months, dry needling, extensive rehab exercises to strengthen the glutes and back...etc. I've gotten a MRI and xray, I've also got orthotics too... spent a fortune over that period and still it's not working.

I'm looking for recommendations on who or where I can go to get really extensive analysis? I'm assuming (I hope) this can be fixable and I've just not found the source of the issue yet. Based in Dublin btw.

thanks
Jon

Buy a good bike and head for the Wicklow roads. Sometimes it just takes time to heal running injuries, lots of time.

tommy_tucker

Merrion wrote: »

Try running barefoot (on a softer surface like the beach for grass)?

i second this barfoot is the best decision i ever made, been running barefoot for 5 years now (both on the road with minimalist shoes and properly barfoot on grass), never going to go back to anything with arch support or a big spongy heel.

_Tombstone_

Where in the name of God did the spongy heel come from???

Tombo2001

Lot of sympathy for you; especially as there is never any shortage of people to say they know how to fix it. You'll be lucky to find anyone who will let you pay on a results basis though, and personally I would really question shelling out 300+ for any sort of gait analysis, scans or whatever that doesn't commit to sorting the problem for you. There may be a time in your life when you need that cash. Please god I will never pay money again to hear someone say I need to "activate the glutes".

Get a sliotar and roll your calves over it, if you want a zero cost potential help.

_Tombstone_

If ya have it you'll spend it, if ya don't you'll sort it yourself.

tunguska

jon1981 wrote: »

Yeah desk bound in software industry.

I was looking at the running clinic in danger sports clinic with consultant Dr Millar. It's 300 for an hours consultancy but I'm hoping he can do a more thorough biomechanical analysis.

Any experiences anyone?

Honestly man I wouldnt waste your 300 bills, been there done that. I had calve problems too when I ran and the thing that solved it may seem counter intuitive but if you really think it about it, makes perfect sense. I had orthotics aswell, and I believed the more support I had in a shoe the better. But it was nonsense. I ditched the orthotics and the support shoes and started to train only in racing flats. It was a gradual reduction of the heel height. Like Im not recommending you go from big shoes to flats in one go, but do it gradually. And im not saying you should end up in zeros either. But the zeros are good for walking around in, just not for running a lot of long distances, theres a risk of getting a stress fracture if you're not used to being barefoot, which most people in the western world arent.
Aswell as reducing the support you have in shoes, Id strongly recommend mobility work. Even at the expense of running. If you only ran once or twice a week, and did mobility stuff the other days, you would be in great nick. And the feeling of having a free mobile body is worth the price of admission alone.

_Tombstone_

Orthos are what they give ya when they see you're getting pissed off with no results and tell you ring them in a couple weeks but don't care if you do.

They are a stupid thing when you think about it. Fix nothing and if do anything - it's harm.

uvox

Go vegan.

Lusocu

I had the exact same problem as you. I tried running on countless occasions and everytime my calves siezed up and and I had to stop running there and then due to tightness flaring up on the run. A genuine silver bullet for me was foam rolling. It was a miracle. Use a good solid foam roller. The kind with indentations and bits that stick out so you really get into the muscle. It hurts like hell the first couple of times because of all the adhesions build up in the muscle and tight facia. I've never had a silver bullet for a medical issue in my life. It's always the it must be managed line. In this instance it brought me back to full active lifestyle.

joesoap5

I also have had the exact same problem as you but mine would kick in after a few miles and always happened without fail if I ran up a very steep hill.

Its always on the right calf and goes down into the left side of my ankle and under my foot. It started towards the end of marathon training a few years ago. I ended up stopping running after the marathon for a good while.

I started jogging again the following year but it was happening so often that I stopped jogging outdoors and started exclusively on a treadmill.

Runners World Physio claims that most people don't need expensive orthotics so I bought a pair of insoles from Lidl for a fiver and wear them.

Between building a base on the treadmill, wearing the insoles and getting a leg massage about once a month I have been able to run up to 18 miles recently outdoors without problems.

I still find though if I try to do any speed when my legs are tired or very steep hills that I get tight the next day so I just don't do them.

I think its a combination of maintenance and building slowly that has me on top of my problem.

I also always wear a cushioned shoe with a 12mm drop.

I doubt your problem is one thing, its nearly always a combination that you have to patiently maintain all the time.

MonkstownHoop

joesoap5 wrote: »

I also have had the exact same problem as you but mine would kick in after a few miles and always happened without fail if I ran up a very steep hill.

Its always on the right calf and goes down into the left side of my ankle and under my foot. It started towards the end of marathon training a few years ago. I ended up stopping running after the marathon for a good while.

How did you manage training with this if you don't mind me asking?

MonkstownHoop

joesoap5 wrote: »

Just as I said above, first I ended up doing nothing for months and then I started putting on a bit of weight and I'm vain so that made me get off my arse and start jogging a 5km on the treadmill and a few light weights a couple of times a week. This went on for a while but still if I ran outdoors it would come back so I just spent the year really in the gym.

Then following year I decided to try a sprint triathlon, thought that swimming and cycling would take the boredom out of it. Got one done but got an extremely nasty infection from our filthy Irish water and my bike nicked shortly after so decided to try really hard to tackle the calf problem.

So just built up a base very slowly, stayed away from really steep hills, bought a pair of cheap insoles (which I swear by) and a massage as soon as I feel the tension building up on the leg again.

The problem has not gone away you know, its chronic. I could actually feel it this week after a 16 mile LSR but day after I cycled to work then following day i jogged to work - only 3 mile each way. Then could feel it again on Wednesday so got the foam roller and ice out and cycled Thursday again and days rest Friday. Feels fine today.

Its just about managing it all the time. I wish I could spend more time stretching as well but unfortunately I only ever really stretch if I have to. But I do think the short cycles make up for that.

Sorry I meant as in did you finish the marathon training and the Marathon while still having the issue, should have been clearer sorry!

joesoap5

MonkstownHoop wrote: »

Sorry I meant as in did you finish the marathon training and the Marathon while still having the issue, should have been clearer sorry!

I did yeah but I spent a good deal of time at the physio for the final weeks beforehand, did my mid week runs on a treadmill and then in November I just had to stop completely.