Introduction of injection rooms

rockonkw

Hi, I'm new to boards and i've not 100% got the hang of this yet so bare with me.
Last year Aodhan O'Riordain outlined that injection rooms and decriminalisation of small amounts of drugs would be introduced this year. Personally I think this was a bold move politically but one that needed to happen. There are many drug addicts dying on the streets and although it may not stop drug use it is a safer alternative, especially when over the last few year children have been pricked with syringes on the bus.

What are peoples thoughts?

johnnyskeleton

Do you have any links to what he said? If you make injection rooms available then you have to effectively turn a blind eye to the fact that people goig into them possess drugs and the gardai know this. On a utilititarian view I think its a sensible idea, but I think it may need to be a part of a more concerted effort to deal with the drugs problem e.g. more treatment places, possibly decriminalising certain drugs etc. Im not sure Ireland is ready for a full Portugese style reform!

rockonkw

As I am a new user I can't post links, but if you look up the Irish Times and search injection rooms it should come up. "Injection rooms for addicts to open next year in drug law change, says Minister" - title of the article.

To be honest a radical change needed to happen, Irish society is too fond of burying our heads in the sand. We have a very big heroin problem in Dublin, many people are dying of drug related deaths and instead of just shaming these people we should at least try help and possibly put them on the road to recovery. Which the minister has said these services will be available for people using the injection rooms.

Any thoughts on needle exchange programmes? I do think Ireland needs to put more in place.

johnnyskeleton

rockonkw wrote: »

Any thoughts on needle exchange programmes? I do think Ireland needs to put more in place.

I think they are a great idea. But heroin users are probably unlikely to go out of their way to exchange needles so it would have to be done at source. Either we equip drug dealers with a regular supply of fresh needles or we supply the heroin through a government agency.

For chronic heroin users, there would be benefit to having a place for them to go where they can:
A) use safely and avoid crime or disorder by getting government supplied high quality heroin with a needle exchange and where they would also have a place to hang out while high in a monitored environment;
be close to information on where to go if they want to kick their habit i.e. have easy access to methadone clinics etc.

I just think there are too many problems with such a proposal, such as no one wants to live near the junkie centre and people will be afraid it will encourage people to use more heroin. The experience in Portugal appears to be the opposite, but politically it wouldn't fly.

KlausFlouride

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

The experience in Portugal appears to be the opposite, but politically it wouldn't fly.

Isn't the logical conclusion to make heroin available to people on prescription and let them inject in the privacy of their own homes? It would reduce theft etc. to pay for drugs & reduce the profits made illegally, the associated violence. This would free up garda time and the machinery of the state to
target the drug suppliers with more punitive tactics, so that's your law and order trade off.

In any case, I think Irish people are not as stupid or as conservative as is made out on social issues.

johnnyskeleton

KlausFlouride wrote: »

Isn't the logical conclusion to make heroin available to people on prescription and let them inject in the privacy of their own homes? It would reduce theft etc. to pay for drugs & reduce the profits made illegally, the associated violence. This would free up garda time and the machinery of the state to
target the drug suppliers with more punitive tactics, so that's your law and order trade off.

Possibly, but there is also the risk that person A will buy heroin for person B etc. Monitoring the use is more expensive, but safer.

In any case, I think Irish people are not as stupid or as conservative as is made out on social issues.

Stupid no. But conservative, very much so. Especially on issues like crime and drugs where we have been conditioned for so long to assume drugs are bad.

gctest50

they could so with a bit of this too :

On a recent afternoon, Brittany Combs drove a white SUV through a neighborhood at the northern end of Austin, Indiana. In the back of her vehicle, there were hundreds of sterile syringes, each in a plastic wrapper.

"Anybody need clean needles today?" she shouted out the window at people sitting on front porches or walking down the street. When Combs, a nurse with the Scott County Health Department, got takers, she made sure they had a unique ID card before opening up the hatch and handing each of them a week's worth of syringes.

During its first week, only four people came by. Now, more than 170 people have signed up, and each day they trade in hundreds of used syringes for clean ones.

Combs is heartened by the response.

After she paid a visit to one run-down two-story house, she got back in the driver's seat with a smile.

"I got two new people signed up, which is fantastic," she said. "Yesterday, we had people running after us, waving us down."




http://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2015/06/02/411231157/indianas-hiv-outbreak-leads-to-reversal-on-needle-exchanges

.

".........Combs' SUV serves as Scott County's mobile needle exchange unit.........."

KlausFlouride

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

Possibly, but there is also the risk that person A will buy heroin for person B etc. Monitoring the use is more expensive, but safer.

The idea of decriminalising usage should mean there is no market for heroin, i.e. if you need it, you are prescribed it as addiction is deemed a medical condition (or some formulation along those lines).

There seem to be a growing acceptance worldwide that the 80's style "War on Drugs" hasn't worked and has created a monster with the growth of Narco gangs.

I can't understand (and probably speak for the majority of Irish people) why people would begin using heroin, it seems an awful existence. The most compelling argument I heard was that it's driven by a lack of social contact, social exclusion and the like. Assuming this to be true, if the general population thought more about addiction and individual addicts in that light, there might be sufficient support for moving towards increased treatment and decriminalisation. At the moment the wider public view the issue (not without reason) as the weakness of a faceless bunch of zombies, and there's no demand to deal with the(ir) problem.

johnnyskeleton

Here's the link to the Irish Times article by the way:

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/injection-rooms-for-addicts-to-open-next-year-in-drug-law-change-says-minister-1.2413509

johnnyskeleton

KlausFlouride wrote: »

I can't understand (and probably speak for the majority of Irish people) why people would begin using heroin, it seems an awful existence. The most compelling argument I heard was that it's driven by a lack of social contact, social exclusion and the like. Assuming this to be true, if the general population thought more about addiction and individual addicts in that light, there might be sufficient support for moving towards increased treatment and decriminalisation. At the moment the wider public view the issue (not without reason) as the weakness of a faceless bunch of zombies, and there's no demand to deal with the(ir) problem.

A lot of people suffer from mental illness or go off on a bender arising from a family tragedy. But yes, lack of other options can also be very much a factor.

keane2097

Might be of interest to some, there's a book called 'Chasing the Scream' which explores where the 'War on Drugs' came from and why it's probably not a good approach.

I read it and found it very compelling FWIW.

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/22245552-chasing-the-scream

heyjude

I'd wonder where these injection rooms would be located, as I can't imagine too many neighbourhoods would be keen to host such facilities ? I also wonder if certain politicians feel strongly that such facilities are such a good idea, whether they would offer a room in their constitutency offices for use as an injection room ?

I read before that most of the clinics and other centres for addicts within Dublin are based in and around the city centre, rather than in the suburbs where many of these people live, as the residents of the suburbs don't want such clinics/centres near their homes. I suspect they would react the same way towards these injection rooms so they might have to be located within existing clinics and centres, but maybe that is the intention in any case.

Canadel

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

Possibly, but there is also the risk that person A will buy heroin for person B etc. Monitoring the use is more expensive, but safer.

Person A: "You heading to the pub?"

Person B: "Nah, not tonight. Going to an injection room."

Person A: "Oh, right, enjoy!"

richy

It is a great first step. AFAIK injection sites are coming in and decriminalisation "is a matter" for the next government. It has cross party support after the joint oireachtas committee on health and justice strongly recommended the Portuguese model.

Dispensing heroin is the ideal model though. You go to a centre where you get your injection twice a day. Already happens in a couple of countries. Cuts down on the level of crime associated with heroin use massively.

There is no longer the need to beg, rob and steal to fund your addiction.

Anyone interested in this should follow Students for Sensible Drug Policy on facebook and twitter for more info.

rockonkw

Statistics have actually shown that the needle exchange programmes already in place, well the little few we currently have are distributing two thirds of clean needles to people on steroids and not actually heroin users. Thought that was quite an interesting fact because I wasn't aware steroids were such a big issue.

colossus-x

Yeah but you know some do-gooder will demand and get away with placing the location of these clinics in completely inappropriate places like in the middle of Temple Bar or Moore Street or in the centre of Dun Laoghaire so as the rest of us don't go round thinking we're better than anyone else or to remind us we might be down on your own luck some day or...as a reminder of how lucky we are etc etc etc

Eric Cartman

The heroin problem is rampant, and the junkies definitely need somewhere to go , yet the idea of giving them free needles at my expense, extending their lifespan or assisting them in getting high in any way repulses me. This is an issue I'm torn on. We really should be tackling their money supply so they can't buy the heroin. Then the problem will work itself out.

Canadel

Eric Cartman wrote: »

We really should be tackling their money supply so they can't buy the heroin. Then the problem will work itself out.

What do you mean?

Canadel

colossus-x wrote: »

Yeah but you know some do-gooder will demand and get away with placing the location of these clinics in completely inappropriate places like in the middle of Temple Bar or Moore Street or in the centre of Dun Laoghaire so as the rest of us don't go round thinking we're better than anyone else or to remind us we might be down on your own luck some day or...as a reminder of how lucky we are etc etc etc

Why don't you suggest some alternatives instead of whining about hypothetical scenarios?

newacc2015

Eric Cartman wrote: »

The heroin problem is rampant, and the junkies definitely need somewhere to go , yet the idea of giving them free needles at my expense, extending their lifespan or assisting them in getting high in any way repulses me. This is an issue I'm torn on. We really should be tackling their money supply so they can't buy the heroin. Then the problem will work itself out.

If a drug addict gets Hep C. What do you think is the cost to the tax payer? It is €100k per person! A treatment for HIV is around £18k per patient in the UK per year. I imagine it is more here. So spending a few cents on cleans needles is saving the tax payer millions per year. They are stealing to find their drug addiction. Rehab not prison is where they should go

I think you should read up on addiction. It isnt as simple as you think

Eric Cartman

newacc2015 wrote: »

If a drug addict gets Hep C. What do you think is the cost to the tax payer? It is €100k per person! A treatment for HIV is around £18k per patient in the UK per year. I imagine it is more here. So spending a few cents on cleans needles is saving the tax payer millions per year. They are stealing to find their drug addiction. Rehab not prison is where they should go

I think you should read up on addiction. It isnt as simple as you think

your answer is based on a system where drug addicts receive hospital treatment, which I also disagree with. Heroin has a massive relapse rate. Once you become a heroin addict, your chances of ever becoming a net contributor to society rapidly approach 0. Im not saying we should go out and kill any of them, thats not how a society works. But we certainly shouldn't be assisting them in any fashion. Offering rehabilitation programs should be all we do, and only on a one shot and you're out basis. No second chances. This business of treating standard burglary and burglary to feed addiction differently should be done away with too.

Eric Cartman

Canadel wrote: »

What do you mean?

we need to get far tougher on burglary , start drug testing of welfare recipients and converting welfare to a cash-less card based system.

If we can reduce the money available to addicts and potential addicts then we'll lower demand for heroin.

newacc2015

Eric Cartman wrote: »

your answer is based on a system where drug addicts receive hospital treatment, which I also disagree with. Heroin has a massive relapse rate. Once you become a heroin addict, your chances of ever becoming a net contributor to society rapidly approach 0. Im not saying we should go out and kill any of them, thats not how a society works. But we certainly shouldn't be assisting them in any fashion. Offering rehabilitation programs should be all we do, and only on a one shot and you're out basis. No second chances. This business of treating standard burglary and burglary to feed addiction differently should be done away with too.

Are you an addiction expert? There isnt a single fact in your post. There is penalty of heroin addictions who get clean. They may relapse, but most stay clean. There is penalty of addicts who get clean and live normal lives.

How successful is putting addicts in prison to reduce crime? Extremely ineffective. Our prisons are full of drugs and that isnt going to change. Rehab will help them turn around their life.