Fire Alarm for Home

tedimc

Not sure if I should post this here or not, but has anyone any recommendations for a fire alarm system for a private house?

I want to move beyond the typical/mandatory one smoke upstairs and one smoke downstairs approach and have a detector in most rooms - approx. 14 zones.

I could obviously go with the regular mains alarms, but I like the smaller footprint of the ones run off a dedicated panel. I'd also like a mixture of detector types. Finally, I want to trigger a relay off a activation so that I can integrate it to my smart system.

I could use the smart system to run the whole setup, but think it would be better to keep something so important operate and just have it trigger appropriate actions on the smart panel.

Any feedback appreciated.

kub

Hi OP no problem, most of us do some bit of Fire systems works also. right so is the house already prewired for a Fire System and if so with what?

I would of course start with the best which is an addressable type system, same type that would be installed in a hotel, whereby each particular detector has its own unique identity on the system. On these say, commercial type systems there are relays on board or even can be done remotely which can be connected to anything as they are usually dry contacts.

Now that is all fine and well, but that is quite a bit of work especially if the house has not been wired.

Quick query for you also, do you have an intruder alarm system and if so what make and model is it?

fred funk }{

I'd go with fire heads connected to a burglar alarm. Fire panels are big and ugly and unnecessary in a house.

tedimc

Cheers lads - no house is not pre-wired, it's a renovation that's getting a full re-wiring.

I wont have a burglar alarm panel per se - each room will have an occupancy sensor to control lighting scenes, sound, etc. via the home automation panel. The smart system also allows an alarm mode which will allow the occupancy sensors to act as intruder PIR detectors when set.

I can get hook smoke/heat detectors into smart system also but this is going to use up more inputs (extra cost) and I'd like to keep them separate in case there ever was any issues with the panel.

Also, don't need to be worried about size/look - everything going into a dedicated plant room.

Stoner

Cheapest way is a dedicated conventional fire alarm. Addressable heads look the same but a small four zone panel would do in a house. Detectors would be cheaper .

Also ventilux have a system for houses don't know if they still sell it. It's semi addressable, as in addressable up to the first activation it wont follow the fire.
But good for combined sounders

tedimc

Thanks Stoner for that.

Any advice on wiring - just regular mains cabling in a ring, or is there any other benefits to the red fire proof stuff.

kub

tedimc wrote: »

Thanks Stoner for that.

Any advice on wiring - just regular mains cabling in a ring, or is there any other benefits to the red fire proof stuff.

If you are going to the trouble of wiring a separate Fire Alarm system, then it is prudent to use Fire Tuf, regular mains cable would just melt in a fire and this might be in an area that is not covered or detected. If the cable melts all it will do is at best, cause the copper on both sides to meet and cause a fault condition on your Fire system.
Horses for courses.

tedimc

Thanks kub - I'll look into that so, hopefully it won't be too much extra.

Was looking around at some of the options last night, namely Apollo detectors and one of their preferred panel manufacturers for the twin wire systems. However, I'm not limited to this as I don't mind running a second loop for sounders also.

Apollo also do a relay mechanism for their detectors which easily hooks into a burglar or smart home system. Either way, I could rig a trigger up easily enough off the sounder loop as I don't require very in-depth integration, simply to know when an alarm has been triggered.

It's difficult to know where to start - with the detectors or the panel. Some manufacturers have a good range of optical and ionization and heat detectors but a poor range of panels. Others have a seemingly good panel, but poor selection of detectors.

richardw001

Did you consider the nest fire alarms ? Might be worth considering

tedimc

Hi richardw001 - yes, did indeed. They seem like a nice piece of kit, not too sure if I could be bothered with the different verbal warnings though. I'm also a little wary of wifi enabled devices for such a critical function. Also I want something mains powered. However - saying that, at least they don't rely on a single point of failure - the panel. In the event of damage to the panel (however unlikely) a convetional fire alarm system is useless, where as separate heads like next, etc. will at least still warn you when the smoke reaches the area.

But, the big issue I have with them is the price - over 100E each. I'll need 10 or 11 of them at least. I was hoping a conventional panel and detectors would come in well under this.

I've also been impressed by the Kidde & Fireangel interconnected systems which don't need a panel. They also have a relay mechanism which is trigger in the event of a fire, which is what I am looking for.

kub

Most if not all Analogue/ Addressable panels have dry contact relays which can be integrated for monitoring etc.
Also bear in mind Fire Systems as in proper ones meet European standards, have battery back up etc.
I speaking as a professional would have no confidence in Wifi when it comes to monitoring life threatening situations.

richardw001

kub wrote: »

Most if not all Analogue/ Addressable panels have dry contact relays which can be integrated for monitoring etc.
Also bear in mind Fire Systems as in proper ones meet European standards, have battery back up etc.
I speaking as a professional would have no confidence in Wifi when it comes to monitoring life threatening situations.

If you are talking about the nest ones - then they still work without Wifi connectivity - and issue the smoke warning locally similar to the standard ones. They start with a Human voice and then escalate to a full scale alarm.
I have battery Nests - however you can get mains powered ones as well

Lack of confidence in Wifi or a belief that Nests need Wifi to function shouldn't eliminate them as an option - they are standalone and optionally mains powered as well

A properly setup Wifi network is more reliable than people think - For example Wifi networks are used in hospitals for Medical device monitoring. The problem in homes is people simply plug whatever wifi router they get and leave it at that - a little research and a bit of work is needed to get a solid Wifi network up and running. In fact my suggestion to people is always that they keep any home automation (or security devices) on a separate wifi network to the usual phones/tablets and general stuff

Not that i am 100% sold on Nests myself - i have both regular mains smoke alarms and nest ones installed. What I don't like about them is that they are fairly closed and don't offer much support to leverage on the built in motion sensors and other nice bits inside.
Iftt support is limited in my opinion which is unfortunate

Anyways this is really an aside - as I think the OP is going down a different route - however imo one or two Nest alarms are no harm as an ancillary warning system in most homes - even with their current limitations they give some functionality that other systems don't - Anyways I came to this forum with a completely different question about house alarms and recommendations with IFTT - so I'll stay quiet on this now !

kub

richardw001 wrote: »

If you are talking about the nest ones - then they still work without Wifi connectivity - and issue the smoke warning locally similar to the standard ones. They start with a Human voice and then escalate to a full scale alarm.
I have battery Nests - however you can get mains powered ones as well

Lack of confidence in Wifi or a belief that Nests need Wifi to function shouldn't eliminate them as an option - they are standalone and optionally mains powered as well

A properly setup Wifi network is more reliable than people think - For example Wifi networks are used in hospitals for Medical device monitoring. The problem in homes is people simply plug whatever wifi router they get and leave it at that - a little research and a bit of work is needed to get a solid Wifi network up and running. In fact my suggestion to people is always that they keep any home automation (or security devices) on a separate wifi network to the usual phones/tablets and general stuff

Not that i am 100% sold on Nests myself - i have both regular mains smoke alarms and nest ones installed. What I don't like about them is that they are fairly closed and don't offer much support to leverage on the built in motion sensors and other nice bits inside.
Iftt support is limited in my opinion which is unfortunate

Anyways this is really an aside - as I think the OP is going down a different route - however imo one or two Nest alarms are no harm as an ancillary warning system in most homes - even with their current limitations they give some functionality that other systems don't - Anyways I came to this forum with a completely different question about house alarms and recommendations with IFTT - so I'll stay quiet on this now !

Can you get a router that is as fire resistant as a Fire Alarm Panel?

tedimc

Thanks richardw001 - haven't fully decided yet re the detectors and it's good to know that there are mains options available. I had ruled Nest out to be honest as I thought battery was the only option. My other issue is the difficulty in getting them to trigger an external system on event of fire detection.

It's a good argument re wifi versus a dedicated panel. On one hand, in the (presumably) less likely event that a fire alarm panel fails you have lost everything, it's single point of failure.

While wifi is more likely to fail, your alarms still act independently. It probably most prudent to mix the two types of systems - but the CFO of the household is already wondering where the technology purchases will stop.

On a side note, just seen this earlier: http://nyti.ms/1TV8MJU

Hopefully their quality controls are better for the smoke detectors. Actually, I'd hope the detectors don't update at all......