Getting over horrible relationship experience

LeeLooLee

Was debating whether or not to post this here, but sure why not! To cut a long story short, I'm a 30-year-old female and I was in a six-year relationship from age 23 to 29. It was incredibly toxic, which of course I didn't realise at the beginning. He seemed like a dream come true - really thoughtful, reliable, romantic. I was in quite a bad place at the start of the relationship due to the previous boyfriend cheating on me and lying about it, and was wary to have another relationship so soon, but he was very persistent and convinced me it wouldn't be a problem, so I decided to give it a go.

There were quite a few 'red flags' there even at the beginning but I stupidly ignored them. One was that he came across as very cocky and liked to be the centre of attention at all times. Such people normally annoy me and I avoid them, but because he seemed so sweet, I decided to overlook it - nobody is perfect after all. Another thing was that I felt very uncomfortable around his friends. I found them quite obnoxious, all into drinking absolutely loads and very loud, very gossipy and quite cliquey. Not the type of person I'd normally be drawn to. He said they were making a massive effort to include me and fair enough, they did, but it felt quite empty and false, as if they had little interest in me as a person but rather just saw me as an extension of my ex, or another drinking partner. Another one was that he seemed quite over the top with the romance - page long texts, telling me I was so special and different, I made him feel sexy and special...again I decided to look past this, as I thought maybe he was just a romantic person who wore his heart on his sleeve. The biggest red flag was his extremely patronising attitude towards women he had dated or had relationships with. He told me his ex was 'crazy' and made her sound totally pathetic, same with a few women he dated after her. I challenged him on this but as always, he had plausible answers so I let it slide. He is extremely popular, one of those people who everyone likes and thinks is lovely and everyone was telling me how lucky I was.

So anyway, the first year or two was fine. He was extremely thoughtful, extremely generous, going to all lengths to make sure I was happy and enjoying myself. I was going through a tough time with my health and he was very supportive. I noticed at this time that he seemed to relish the 'caretaker' role to the point where he almost encouraged me to rely and depend on him constantly. I felt deep down that he almost enjoyed that I was sick because it put me in a weak position where I needed 'looking after' and that gave him a role to play. He was constantly telling me I could do so much better than him and I think this 'weakness' of mine made him feel important and needed. It felt sometimes like he was trying to earn my love by doing everything for me, even though I told him there was no need.

Anyway, fast forward on a few years to when I was 26/27 and it was turning into a total disaster. He was constantly guilt tripping me about not appreciating him enough. He constantly reminded me of how much he did for me and how little he got back. To tell the truth, I had by this stage become so used to him doing everything for me that I had lost almost all my confidence and self esteem. I felt pathetic and useless and I was still having health issues, so was also tired and weak a lot of the time. The guilt was unbearable and I felt like the worst person in the world. I was struggling to earn enough money to pay my part of the rent and bills and was often not up to going out with him, which he resented. I did go along to lots of nights out or pub evenings with his work colleagues, but it felt like it was never enough. No matter how much effort I made to chat to them and be fun, he always expected more. He told me I was too quiet and standoffish. If I mentioned being tired and wanting to head home around 11 or 12 (having been out drinking since 6pm), he made me feel like I was ruining his night. He couldn't seem to see that I had already struggled when I was tired and that I just wanted to reach a compromise. He is, in my opinion, an alcoholic, and drinks huge amounts, and I ended up drinking lots as well to deal with feeling inferior and to get over my feelings of shyness and discomfort around large groups of people. Obviously the drinking and hangovers made me feel even more down, so it was a vicious circle.

Things went on for another couple of years, often bad but sometimes good. I clung on because I honestly at this point felt that I couldn't manage on my own. I know it sounds pathetic but that's how I felt. I look back now and wonder what on earth I was thinking - at 27, 28, in the prime of my life, feeling like I could never do any better, but that's how I felt. I started to get very depressed and at this point, he dumped me and told me he couldn't put up with it anymore. Obviously I was devastated and more so because he didn't seem at all bothered. He moved on immediately. He kissed a mutual friend of ours in the pub in front of people, he went out loads and only 6 months after the end of the relationship, he was already in a serious relationship with a friend of another mutual friend. They were living together within another couple of months.

I was just destroyed for the best part of a year, really. Mostly because I blamed myself 100%, as did he. He told me all the problems we had were totally down to me, that he was fine, there was nothing wrong with him. Any suggestion from me that he had any flaw was completely dismissed, with him using the fact that everyone likes him as evidence that he's a great person. He told me if only I hadn't been so needy and demanding, things would have worked out, and I believed him. I didn't think any other man would want to be with such an awful girlfriend. I did try to date and saw a few guys, but my head was such a mess that I was in no position to have a serious relationship. I eventually decided to try counselling and this was a brilliant decision, because it was only then that I realised that of course it wasn't all me. The therapist suggested that my ex could possibly have narcissistic traits and gave me some leaflets and book recommendations. I was blown away when I read them because I could totally identify with the stages of a relationship with a narcissistic person – idolization/putting you on a pedestal at the beginning followed by devaluation and psychological abuse, along with their behaviours - making you dependent on them, never apologising for anything ever, leaving a trail of destruction in their wake which they’re completely oblivious to, making inappropriate jokes/comments and not caring at all if they hurt or offend (he said it was ‘grand’ and that was that) and mostly the ability to make everyone believe they’re an amazing person and the life and soul of the party. And of course, because everyone thinks that, you think it must be you.

Learning all this has been really helpful for me. I feel like a new person. My family and friends have said I seem so much brighter and happier and more positive. So the question is, what now? I’m at a place where I’m happy with who I am and happy being single. I’ve been on two major holidays to Asia on my own and have got my confidence and independence back. I live on my own and I love it. I’m just aware that my experience with my ex has now made me extremely wary of starting a new relationship. I consider myself an intelligent person with good social skills, yet I was taken in by him so who’s to say it can’t happen again? Toxic people are often so charming at the beginning and I’m worried that I will get hooked into another unhealthy codependent relationship.

Congratulations to anyone who managed to get to the end of this! Ay thoughts or advice welcome.

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

You say yourself that you were wary of getting into the relationship because you didn't feel your head was in the right place for it, and that you did spot some red flags but decided to let them slide.

You're in a far better position now. You're happy being single, happy with yourself, and hopefully you've learned to trust your intuition a bit more (god knows that can be a really hard thing to do in the early throes of attraction, I'm sure everyone on this forum has been suckered in to some degree at some point).

Chalk this one down, be proud of yourself for getting through it and listen to your gut if someone super charming and OTT comes along again. You were caught by a manipulative person at a vulnerable moment, you're older and wiser now and in your own words you're a new person. I wouldn't say you need to worry too much.

silverbolt

Oh hes good at mental and emotional manipulation. He plays a long game.

He builds you up but your building up is completely dependant on him. He takes your confidence away a little bit at a time and the only bit he leaves you with is based around him and to the outside world is so absolutely charming and wonderful that it gets you thinking your the problem.

OP Im kinda in the same place as you, I came out of a toxic, emtionally abusive relationship and since that ended I have found my confidence again. And Im single.

But to answer your question of what now? - The answer is nothing. Live your life, follow the road and see where it takes and who you meet on the way. Enjoy it. If you meet someone and your ready then seize the chance - not everyone is a villain.

cazzer22

Hi there. You poor thing. As someone who can really identify with what you've said, well done for getting out. I was in a strikingly similar relationship for a year and I am still suffering because of it (confidence) etc. Please don't have any fear about future relationships. Nothing that happened to you was your fault and you will find someone who will make you really happy. I broke up with my ex in mid-August (three years ago) and by December, I had met my current boyfriend. I wasn't looking, it just happened. It was the best thing ever and we took things really slowly and it has been amazing. Your previous relationship has no bearing on how your future relationship will be. Go into an encounter feeing positive, confidence and excited for what lies ahead.

You've mentioned you've travelled alone, which is incredible. Go and enjoy everything and try out as many new things as possible. Focus on the future and forget the past. This confidence that you now have will shine through and guys will be really attracted to that. The thing that helped me the most was realising that I wasn't going to let that horrific relationship define my next one. I was happy going out, meeting people and doing my own thing then something great landed in my lap. Take some time for yourself and to realise what it is you want in a relationship- maybe it's someone tall, older, kind, considerate- whatever it is, don't settle for less.

Hemerodrome

Fair play to you for rebuilding your self-esteem and independence and putting in the work to understand what you went through. I'm not clear what advice you're looking for here though. Are you trying to overcome the wariness of trying agai?

bp

Something similar happened to a friend years ago. Once she was shot of him everything improved. Happily married to a lovely bloke and enjoying a healthy relationship.

Just be wary of the red flags but don't like him dictate your future. Good luck and fair play.

Chances are he will never get what he did to you, never see he was in the wrong

LeeLooLee

Hemerodrome wrote: »

Fair play to you for rebuilding your self-esteem and independence and putting in the work to understand what you went through. I'm not clear what advice you're looking for here though. Are you trying to overcome the wariness of trying agai?

Yes. It's been almost two years now since it ended and I'm at the stage now where another relationship just seems like too much hassle. I don't want to put myself through the possible heartache again and it seems easier just to stay single and make the most of my life the way it is. I think I'm looking too much into the red flags now when I meet a new guy and over-analysing everything. Obviously for a relationship to work you need to put your heart into it and I just have so much fear of being hurt again or ending up in a similar position as before.

tashiusclay

Never, as you've seen, and a rule I follow myself, ignore the red flags.

Well done for getting yourself and your life back on track, no mean feat. Nice one!

LeeLooLee

tashiusclay wrote: »

Never, as you've seen, and a rule I follow myself, ignore the red flags.

Well done for getting yourself and your life back on track, no mean feat. Nice one!

Problem is I see red flags everywhere, with everyone. Maybe it's my age and the fact I've become more jaded, I don't know.

tashiusclay

LeeLooLee wrote: »

Problem is I see red flags everywhere, with everyone. Maybe it's my age and the fact I've become more jaded, I don't know.

I know what you mean, from personal experience too. There are red flags though that you can sometimes let provisionally slide in the short term, call them orange ones if you will, giving the person a little time to see if those fears are unfounded. Other ones are just too risky to ignore. You'd probably just have to use the experience you gained from both that previous relationship, and the recovery period after, to make those calls, imo.

blue note

Wow, reading that post was a very weird experience for me. Because it’s eerily close to what I’d expect my ex to say about me. Similar ages, length of relationship, she was sick, I’d have been more popular with people (which definitely bothered her), she thought I drank too much / was an alcoholic, I kind of blamed her for most of the relationship problems (really I thought it was more that we were incompatible but I can’t deny that I thought that she could have done a lot to help the relationship if she wanted, whereas I thought I did make a really good effort up to the last year), she would have regarded herself as well travelled and then after we broke up 6 months later I was in a relationship that I’m still in now. I don’t know if she is still single.

While in my case I’d obviously disagree with my ex strongly on the majority of all of that, I reckon she’s a lot happier since our split and sincerely hope that she is. I’ve no reason to doubt your version of events (i.e. that he was at fault for the majority of things), so best wishes for the future. And I’d try to let relationships happen if I were you. Just because you got one bad one, doesn’t mean they’re all bad. From my point of view, I came out of an extremely toxic relationship. She was emotionally a bully and my confidence was shot at the end of it. I ended it not knowing if I’d ever kiss another girl, but content that even if I didn’t I was better off without her. Now that I’m a year into a healthy relationship I can vouch for how great they can be. But aside from simply preferring this girl as a person, I’m far more compatible with her in terms of sense of humour, what we like to do on weekends and with virtually everything basically. So if you can let your guard down with new relationships and enjoy them one date at a time you never know when you might suddenly realise that you’re in a wonderful relationship without fully knowing how you got there!

Best of luck OP with whatever you do!

HoneyBee78

OP well done for finally getting yourself out of that extremely toxic relationship, halfway through reading your post the word Narcissist sprung to mind, I'm glad you went for counselling. It's only when we read up on it more that it all makes sense. Id never even heard the word before until someone on here suggested it to me and my God was it an eye opener and a life saver. Literally described my ex to a T.
Don't stress about meeting someone and I'm sure if you are unfortunate to come across another narcissist you will spot the signs, I know I will. I had the unfortunate experience of going out with one for 1 year and like you I ignored tonnes of red flags, even ignored my friends concerns but they eventually show their true colours. Keep doing what you're doing, you sound like you're on the right path now. Be grateful you dodged that bullet and that you're now free to enjoy your life

LeeLooLee

blue note wrote: »

Wow, reading that post was a very weird experience for me. Because it’s eerily close to what I’d expect my ex to say about me. Similar ages, length of relationship, she was sick, I’d have been more popular with people (which definitely bothered her), she thought I drank too much / was an alcoholic, I kind of blamed her for most of the relationship problems (really I thought it was more that we were incompatible but I can’t deny that I thought that she could have done a lot to help the relationship if she wanted, whereas I thought I did make a really good effort up to the last year), she would have regarded herself as well travelled and then after we broke up 6 months later I was in a relationship that I’m still in now. I don’t know if she is still single.

While in my case I’d obviously disagree with my ex strongly on the majority of all of that, I reckon she’s a lot happier since our split and sincerely hope that she is. I’ve no reason to doubt your version of events (i.e. that he was at fault for the majority of things), so best wishes for the future. And I’d try to let relationships happen if I were you. Just because you got one bad one, doesn’t mean they’re all bad. From my point of view, I came out of an extremely toxic relationship. She was emotionally a bully and my confidence was shot at the end of it. I ended it not knowing if I’d ever kiss another girl, but content that even if I didn’t I was better off without her. Now that I’m a year into a healthy relationship I can vouch for how great they can be. But aside from simply preferring this girl as a person, I’m far more compatible with her in terms of sense of humour, what we like to do on weekends and with virtually everything basically. So if you can let your guard down with new relationships and enjoy them one date at a time you never know when you might suddenly realise that you’re in a wonderful relationship without fully knowing how you got there!

Best of luck OP with whatever you do!

Of course there are two sides to every story. My ex absolutely believes it was ALL me and that he tried his best. He told me over and over that I made no effort. I made enormous amounts of efforts and sacrifice, and he just couldn't see it. If I stayed out until midnight, he'd make me feel bad for not staying until one, rather than being happy I'd stayed out that long when I wasn't feeling well. He saw aspects of my personality, like introversion and sensitivity, as defects that needed to be fixed. He basically didn't like me. He just liked the idea of me.

What made me laugh was when he started seeing the new girlfriend. He told me how much happier he was, because she was so lovely and said nice things to him and made him feel special. I just stared at him until he eventually caught on, and he said 'well yeah, I know I said that stuff to you at the beginning, but..." Says it all really! He said those exact things to me about how his ex was awful and crazy and I was special and different, and he's carrying on the same pattern with this new girl, totally oblivious. I'm not saying you are like this, but there are always two sides to the story.

irishgirl19

Well done for getting yourself away from that asshole.
I was in your shoes before. Counselling really helped me. You will be so glad yous broke up soon! Definitely sounds like a narcissist. And of course its your fault why you broke up. He would never take the blame himself

DukeOfTheSharp

I was in this kind of situation until a few months ago, and it was still going sideways even then. After longer than I'm proud to admit, I feel like I wasted a majority of my time on someone more in love with the idea of me than the actual person. If I'd go out and do my own thing - as she would - I'd get repeated texts if I didn't check my phone (in fairness to me my phone was acting dodgy and the vibration would turn off of its own will) but when it came to her having her nights out, even a small text to see how she was getting on and was everything ok - just to check in as you do cause you care - would be met with nothing. It was completely one-sided; if I brought up an instance of inequality and imbalance between her actions and her expectations of mine, she'd go ballistic. At times she was just making things up, concocting a narrative to justify her behaviour by painting me as the 'bad guy', asking 'why do you always do this?' or having massive crying sessions when I'd point out someone that wasn't alright to do - like drinking too much, having a bad night and then throwing a torrent of abuse at me the following day, when I wasn't even involved. It became impossible to feel my own feelings, and when we were spending time together I'd avoid talking about the issues because I wanted to enjoy my time and have some normalcy in my life from all the chaos. I helped her out, was a shoulder to cry on, but when my mental health hit rock bottom (and I'm talking intrusive and scary thoughts) she was nowhere to be found. I had an operation, and because I was still recovering she ignored me because I couldn't do what she wanted. On top of that she'd always avoid the issue and make it my fault for having the problem, and it got so bad that I felt crazy and that I couldn't even feel or have my own opinion.

When we broke up, she talked about how her mental health was the issue, and that when she had it sorted we could try again if I wanted...but within two weeks she started talking to another convenient fella who she started dating and refused to tell me until she had him in her back pocket. She'd turned me into a safety net without my knowing and played on my better nature with her mental health as an excuse. I tried to explain this to her but she was openly hostile and insulted that I'd dare question her, even after she admitted she hadn't been bothered, and later she said 'neither of us had tried hard enough'! It still weighs on me that she's still accepting her own deluded narrative - when she had no respect for me at all and no want to be with me, just a want for convenience and what I could do for her. I'm angry at myself for believing her and in her, and I genuinely feel like she's more deluded and immature than I could ever see. Thankfully I'm out of it, I've cut her off entirely and moved on with my life, it still hurts and feels rotten, but I figure that without her in my life I won't get dragged down by excessive drama. I know people argue that the truth is somewhere in between the two stories, but I find it hard - for anyone - to believe both people are equally to blame when one side doubles-down on general terribleness. The sad truth is that in the back of my mind, I knew this is how it'd play out. I just, like you OP, ignored the red-flags and thought I deserved this, that it'd pass. Now I feel hollow and I've trouble sleeping and eating, but I'm still doing it. I've no choice and things will get better, but I can't see getting into a relationship in my current state, not for a long while.

LegacyUser

Hi Op,

Normally don't comment here but I was compelled after reading your thread. I was in a similar position for over 2 years, looking back now I was merely only a FB... despite him claiming that I was more than that. He was a pr!ck plain and simple. Messaged him a few weeks back with the intent of saying hello, how are you etc. but I was met with opportunistic, sexual requests pretty much 5 mins into the conversation (despite the fact that I hadn't spoken to him in over 6 months). I wasn't asked how I was, or what I was up to... it was just sex, sex, sex, and in the most blunt manner. I was shocked and disgusted and immediately ended the conversation. This pretty much confirmed to me that the lad was/is nothing more than a narcissist... and should be avoided at all costs. He is disgusting, and what he does and believes is no reflection on my character. It was and isn't my fault that I was treated that way, similarly it is not your fault that your ex treated you appallingly.

Some people are just horrible and apathetic naturally, unfortunately some of us encounter these individuals whilst others don't. I also am very wary of relationships, but I know over the past few months I've become much more open to the possibility of forming a new relationship... it just takes time. I think you've done really well considering what has occurred, you should be proud of yourself! Move forward with your life now and allow yourself to fall in love again, take this as a life lesson and use the traits that you have witnessed to your advantage when dating. Somewhere along the line you will find someone who will treat you well, and will never do such things to you. It may take time, but at some point this fear will subside. Good luck!

silverbolt

LeeLooLee wrote: »

Problem is I see red flags everywhere, with everyone. Maybe it's my age and the fact I've become more jaded, I don't know.

Then get to know the person first. Those kind of experiences have a way of both guiding and stunting us. We see the demon but sometimes the demon isnt there.

Once you get to know the person better, you will understand more what they are like. Also trust your gut. Your gut doesnt lie. If something says its wrong then just bug out.

beks101

LeeLooLee wrote: »

what now?

You keep on living and learning and being brave enough to put yourself out there even and especially when it's scary to do so.

You were 23 and relatively new to relationships - now you're 30 and know what does and doesn't work for you. You know what to look out for. You know what can't be worked through. You know when to bail. Yes, toxic people can be charming, but your boundaries can also be steadfast until you feel comfortable and happy enough around someone to let them in. I think that one comes with age and experience. I certainly am a lot more wary and cautious and less easy with emotional attachment at 30 than I was in my early 20s. Those 'red flags' keep the charming fcukers at bay.

But the thing is, and this might run contrary to my point above but it's probably the truest thing of all - being vulnerable is the most enriching and life-altering experience you can have as a human being. It's where you grow most. It's where you learn who you are. It's where you find love and connection. And it's not ever risk-free. You might be screwed over or lied to or deceived or betrayed or abused or disappointed or devastated - but investing in something that may or may not work out, in romance, in life, is pretty fundamental. That's exactly what you did and that's exactly what you will do again when the time is right.

I think it can be hard to be a 30-something single woman because this 'timeline' notion can run contrary to where you are mentally and emotionally. Maybe you need more time with your counsellor, maybe you need to talk more and write more about how all of this has affected you. The one thing you HAVE gained from your ex is an obvious reluctance to rush into the wrong relationship again, and savour that. It's a gift. Too many people do.

Treat every new guy as a new stranger that may become a friend, rather than another headfcuk to potentially destroy your life again. Because the thing about men is they're all so different. Literally every single one. Different personalities, different drives, different ambitions, different life goals, different tastes and opinions and ways of treating other people. It's too bloody easy to assume the worst in the dating world when you've met one too many fcukwits, but it's to do a major discredit to yourself and to the men in your life. There's so many absolute gems out there. Kind, sweet, funny, loving men who can't believe their luck in finding you.

The dating scene (especially when you add the online stuff) is such a crazy box of chocolates, you never know what you're going to get, but often the only way to find someone worthwhile is to wade through a mountain of crap dates and sh1tty experiences, but god are they worth all that bullsh1t at the end of it all.

You'll be grand x

LeeLooLee

silverbolt wrote: »

Then get to know the person first. Those kind of experiences have a way of both guiding and stunting us. We see the demon but sometimes the demon isnt there.

Once you get to know the person better, you will understand more what they are like. Also trust your gut. Your gut doesnt lie. If something says its wrong then just bug out.

It didn't help last time. The guy was a friend for quite a while. That's the thing, he was great as a friend and slowly became a nightmare of a boyfriend. And my gut is so finely tuned that it raises red flags about almost everyone. I'm a fantastic judge of character until it gets to romance and then it's all out of the window, I lose all sense of my own judgement. Nightmare!

LeeLooLee

beks101, great advice, thanks. I wish so much I'd let go sooner, so I could have had half my twenties left to enjoy. That's a huge regret I'll always have. Apparently dating in your thirties is much harder than your twenties, so it's even harder than it would have been. I was just chatting to a friend today who's turning 30 next week, and she's never had a proper relationship, just the odd fling. She feels that she's missed out and is worried about how her lack of experience will impact on future relationships, but I think in a way she's also lucky not to have been 'scarred' by bad relationships and to have lived her twenties as a total free and independent spirit! I suppose the grass is always greener. Your post has made me feel so much better, thanks!

Hemerodrome

I came back to your thread to respond to your answer to my question, but beks had beaten me to it and you've seen for yourself that in comparison to your friend, you're better equipped for weeding out the wasters. Trust yourself, you had the resources to rebuild after a bad relationship, that takes a bit of doing and you should rely on the abilities you demonstrated by doing that.

LeeLooLee

I'm still finding it very tough and I feel like I should be able to move on by now. It's almost two years, but I'm still suspicious of men's motives and reluctant to make myself vulnerable again. I'm finding it hard to know which 'red flags' are really red flags and when I'm just being too paranoid. I think I lost my sense of my own judgement in the last relationship.

Augme

LeeLooLee wrote: »

I'm still finding it very tough and I feel like I should be able to move on by now. It's almost two years, but I'm still suspicious of men's motives and reluctant to make myself vulnerable again. I'm finding it hard to know which 'red flags' are really red flags and when I'm just being too paranoid. I think I lost my sense of my own judgement in the last relationship.

There's no need to rush things. 2 years might be a long time, or it might not be. There is no set time period when people should get over something. Don't force the issue.

Don't think of us as simply "men". We're a person/human. Our gender does not define who we are or how we behave. There are men out there who are assholes and there are men out there who are lovely - the exact same can be said for women as well.

As for getting over the "red flags" - maybe you could try to just treat dating men as if you are trying to find a new female best friend. What I mean by that is - if you wanted to make friends with a woman - what qualities and traits would you look for? What things about them would put you off wanting to be there friend? When you can answer those questions then just transfer that over.

LeeLooLee

Augme wrote: »

There's no need to rush things. 2 years might be a long time, or it might not be. There is no set time period when people should get over something. Don't force the issue.

Don't think of us as simply "men". We're a person/human. Our gender does not define who we are or how we behave. There are men out there who are assholes and there are men out there who are lovely - the exact same can be said for women as well.

As for getting over the "red flags" - maybe you could try to just treat dating men as if you are trying to find a new female best friend. What I mean by that is - if you wanted to make friends with a woman - what qualities and traits would you look for? What things about them would put you off wanting to be there friend? When you can answer those questions then just transfer that over.

I probably should have said 'potential partners'. To me there is a difference when weighing up a potential partner vs a friend. I have male friends who I get on well with and like having as friends, but who I could never go out with. For example, one of my best friends is a total headwreck - he's vain, a show off etc. He has enough positive traits to cancel these things out and is very funny, but I only see him for short periods. He's never had a gf for longer than a few months because he drives them insane. I have another friend who is lovely but a total flake - at almost 40 he still forgets everything, always late, irresponsible, always broke...again, not really a problem in a friend but a huge red flag in a boyfriend. Not sure if that makes sense?

Augme

LeeLooLee wrote: »

I probably should have said 'potential partners'. To me there is a difference when weighing up a potential partner vs a friend. I have male friends who I get on well with and like having as friends, but who I could never go out with. For example, one of my best friends is a total headwreck - he's vain, a show off etc. He has enough positive traits to cancel these things out and is very funny, but I only see him for short periods. He's never had a gf for longer than a few months because he drives them insane. I have another friend who is lovely but a total flake - at almost 40 he still forgets everything, always late, irresponsible, always broke...again, not really a problem in a friend but a huge red flag in a boyfriend. Not sure if that makes sense?

I understand what where you're coming from but my attitude to reading that is; You should consider setting your "friend" bar higher. I find it odd that your best friend is someone who you can only see for short periods because they annoy you too much. Now these guys might be great people and friends, you know them better than I do obviously.

But if you can recognise undatable traits in your friends, then surely it can't be too difficult to spot those traits in potential partners? You seem to have a good idea of what is/isn't a red flag for you already. On the subject of "red flags" - they aren't really clear cut signs of someone who you shouldn't date as well. But most importantly everyone has their own idea of what is/isn't a "red flag" and that's why it's important to simply have you own list of "red flags" and stick to it.

LeeLooLee

Augme wrote: »

I understand what where you're coming from but my attitude to reading that is; You should consider setting your "friend" bar higher. I find it odd that your best friend is someone who you can only see for short periods because they annoy you too much. Now these guys might be great people and friends, you know them better than I do obviously.

But if you can recognise undatable traits in your friends, then surely it can't be too difficult to spot those traits in potential partners? You seem to have a good idea of what is/isn't a red flag for you already. On the subject of "red flags" - they aren't really clear cut signs of someone who you shouldn't date as well. But most importantly everyone has their own idea of what is/isn't a "red flag" and that's why it's important to simply have you own list of "red flags" and stick to it.

They don't annoy me. I mean that you don't generally see your friends anywhere near as often as you see a romantic partner and that things which might be a huge red flag in a partner (financial irresponsibility) are just a mild annoyance in a friend. There just isn't as much invested in platonic friendships at all.

I think the issue is that I do see the flags in potential partners, but am unsure in myself as to which ones are acceptable and which ones are insurmountable. Everyone has their flaws, but I'm still finding it difficult to even differentiate between 'annoying' and 'sinister'. I'm not even sure whether it's even possible to know whether someone is a narcissist, for example - they manage to fool lots of people!