State of the art international grid connection capacities

Impetus

ABB has an UHVDC technology platform that can transfer 5 to 8 GW of power over 1’000 to 1’500 kn (using 800 kV DC) and 1.1 kV systems that can carry 10 GW (about twice the total power generation capacity of all power plants in Ireland) over distances of 3’000 km.

There is no excuse for Ireland not having a program to develop offshore wind at high volumes, and export same to mainland Europe, where there is no foreign exchange risk (as opposed to GB). Germany is committed to nuclear shutdown by 2022. France has a large number of reactors reaching end of shelf life.

10 GW = almost EUR 10 million a day in exports (at around 40 EUR/MW/h*). Irish territorial waters could produce at least 20 GW/h, most of the time, using efficient turbine design that can handle high wind speeds. This is in addition to land based turbine output.

http://new.abb.com/systems/hvdc/hvdc-classic

*Swissgrid.ch is directly connected to France, Germany, Italy, Austria and of course Switzerland, and is responsible for 11% of Europe’s electricity transit. This makes it fairly representative of a pan-European price. Today (not a busy day) their day base market price is €43.01 per kW/h and €47.77 per kW/h peak. Also Swissgrid uses the EUR and not their own currency CHF for pricing. During offpeak hours, prices will be lower. Eirgrid is showing a price of €42.91 at the moment. The gradual shutdown of FR-nuclear will lead to an increase in the market price of electricity. EdF have a legacy cost of about 2c per kW/h with all these old nuclear plants. Not for much longer....

https://www.swissgrid.ch/swissgrid/en/home.html

L

There's a number of reasons this scale isn't really a runner but they mostly come down to cost (UHVDC/HVDC is expensive, offshore wind lacks pre-existing grid or any collocation of other gen/users so comes with big grid roll-out costs).

There's marine surveys and feasibility studies being done at the moment for a smaller (but still massive) 700MW interconnector between France/Ireland. Should be interesting to see what comes of that.

Impetus

L wrote: »

There's a number of reasons this scale isn't really a runner but they mostly come down to cost (UHVDC/HVDC is expensive, offshore wind lacks pre-existing grid or any collocation of other gen/users so comes with big grid roll-out costs).

There's marine surveys and feasibility studies being done at the moment for a smaller (but still massive) 700MW interconnector between France/Ireland. Should be interesting to see what comes of that.

I am not suggesting for one moment that somebody splash out on a 10 GW inter-connector. I posted it to provide info on the current state of the art in terms of capacities. Children have to learn to walk before they run... etc.

I came across this item (watch video) on a DK <> NL inter-connector. They are looking at putting sea based wind turbines at suitable locations along the route of the inter-connector - avoiding the need for the cost of separately wiring up sea based turbines using a separate network infrastructure. Add in fibre optic cable into the same cable package, and you get three applications for the price of laying one cable. The DK <> NL connector will be 700 MW. Under 1 bn EUR for a 350 km route. Cork to Brittany is about 500 km.

http://energinet.dk/EN/ANLAEG-OG-PROJEKTER/Anlaegsprojekter-el/Kabel-til-Holland-COBRA/Sider/Kabel-til-Holland-COBRA.aspx

Impetus

A map of the Danish import and export routes showing real-time flows.

http://energinet.dk/Flash/Forside/index.html?target=el_new

(Click on the 'Elsystemet ligne nu button')

The chart is showing 269g CO2 per kW/h just now.

The average wind speed in Denmark right now is about 2 m/s- say 5 to 10 km/h depending on location (compared with 30 to 50 km/h in IRL onshore)*

http://www.wunderground.com/global/DN.html (click on arrow >)

*http://www.wunderground.com/global/IE.html

Impetus

The wind has picked up in Denmark today. The country is a net exporter of 1.2 GW of electricity at this moment. The CO2 content of Danish electricity is currently 192 g/kWh (515 g/kWh for IRL). Ireland seldom approaches 300 g.

http://energinet.dk/Flash/Forside/index.html?target=el_new

ted1

Impetus wrote: »

The wind has picked up in Denmark today. The country is a net exporter of 1.2 GW of electricity at this moment. The CO2 content of Danish electricity is currently 192 g/kWh (515 g/kWh for IRL). Ireland seldom approaches 300 g.

http://energinet.dk/Flash/Forside/index.html?target=el_new

Ireland is an island nation with interconnectors of about 6MW just over 10% of our peak demand. Denmark can run there grid on their imports.

You can not compare us with them . Your comparing Apples with Oranges.

Large interconnectors like the one you are talking about are not really a good thing and it's why so few grids if any have them. What do you think would happen the grid if we were exporting 1GW across a single line while our national demand was 2GW?

The frequency would hit the roof, all generators would shut down and the country would be in the dark for hours or longer.
Also many appliances could fry.

Also if a country was importing a high % of their demand that then tripped there frequency would hit the floor and the ossilation would also cause a blsckout

Capt'n Midnight

I've said it before , if we try to export to Europe we'd be competing with on-demand Norwegian hydo. Norway can "store" wind energy by not using hydro until later. Other than that our wind is the same as everyone else's just at different times. Instead of exporting to France it would be much easier to export to the UK , which we do already, which reduces what France exports to the UK.

We can't match Denmark. Norwegian hydro to the North , German solar to the south and lots of wind.

We have a lot more than 6% interconnectors between the East-West and the link to Scotland via NI

Impetus wrote: »

A map of the Danish import and export routes showing real-time flows.

http://energinet.dk/Flash/Forside/index.html?target=el_new

Electric flow in Scandinavian and the Baltic states.
http://www.statnett.no/en/market-and-operations/data-from-the-power-system/nordic-power-flow/

BTW also found this.
Gas flow in Europe https://www.iea.org/gtf/#


Also re 700MW to France, there are massive resources around the Channel Islands. Not only is there wind but also http://www.are.gg/ 3 GW of tidal.

ted1

The Moyle interconnector hasn't worked properly in years, only 1 of the two lines work.

With regards exporting to France and Europe, the time difference is our friend , we start later and finish later so the Celtic interconnector can help them with their morning peak and help us with our evening peak.

SeanW

Impetus wrote: »

The wind has picked up in Denmark today. The country is a net exporter of 1.2 GW of electricity at this moment. The CO2 content of Danish electricity is currently 192 g/kWh (515 g/kWh for IRL). Ireland seldom approaches 300 g.

http://energinet.dk/Flash/Forside/index.html?target=el_new

Yet, in France, (where by the way, electricity costs only about half what it does in Denmark) their CO2/kwh figures are dramatically better.

http://www.rte-france.com/en/eco2mix/eco2mix-co2-en
Right now, France is emitting 62g/kwh for electricity. That's about 1/3 of the figure quoted above (though I accept it does fluctuate, I've not seen reach, let alone exceed 100g/kwh).

So even with presumably cheap imports from solar powered Germany, a massive battery just North of them with Norway's massive hydroelectric infrastructure, and a populace that doesn't mind paying the highest electricity prices in Europe to support the Green agenda, their CO2/KWH figures are dramatically worse (anywhere from 2-4 times worse) than another European country that also has half the power cost.

Denmark shouldn't be used as anything but a cautionary tale IMHO.