Bucket fed calves- advice/ tips

Hill Bill

We usually finish continental bullocks and heifers. Happy with my system but concerned about the weight limits coming down the line from the Factories, they won't want heavy cattle.

I'm going to buy 10 or so dairy cross calves to see how they compare profit wise. We used to dairy years ago, and reared calves on the bucket. Have probably forgotten most of it though!!

Any advice or tips would be greatly appreciated- getting them settled, OAD or TAD feeding, when to wean, etc?

Base price

Normally we buy calves early in the season and stay away from later April born on - unless they are cheap. We try to get them on OAD as soon as we can but it depends on the individual calf. They are offered crunch with good barley straw.
If individuals are not doing as well as their comrades they are seperated into their own group so they do not have to compete with stronger calves.
Wean off milk when they are eating about 1kg per day and weather permitting they are out into a nice paddock.
We always vaccinate within a day or two of arrival with Rispoval intranasal, but there are other products available. Best to seek the advice of your Vet as to which is most suitable for your farm/area.
Are you thinking of finishing bulls/heifers.

Carrigogunnell

Hill Bill wrote: »

We usually finish continental bullocks and heifers. Happy with my system but concerned about the weight limits coming down the line from the Factories, they won't want heavy cattle.

I'm going to buy 10 or so dairy cross calves to see how they compare profit wise. We used to dairy years ago, and reared calves on the bucket. Have probably forgotten most of it though!!

Any advice or tips would be greatly appreciated- getting them settled, OAD or TAD feeding, when to wean, etc?

Was at a bord bia Tegasc night before Christmas it came up about heavy cattle, we were told that there is a market out there for them and they do actually want them but not a flood of them and that they won't not take them but you could be deducted 10 cent a kilo. You can take from that now what you want.

Miname

Your dairy bred calves will take a hit too once there's a glut. I hate to say it but I reckon there will be a great supply of these sort for the next while that will be bought cheaper as weanlings or stores.

Base price

Miname wrote: »

Your dairy bred calves will take a hit too once there's a glut. I hate to say it but I reckon there will be a great supply of these sort for the next while that will be bought cheaper as weanlings or stores.

I hope that common sense will prevail this year and farmers don't outbid exports for FR bull calves, let alone paying stupid money for JEx bull calves that should be heading to their forever home. I appreciate diary farmers want to get the best price but......

mahoney_j

Deep clean and disinfect your calf pens first ,try and source calves from a single source.offer electrolytes on arrival .consider vaccinating for pneumonia with bovipast ,expensive but v well worth it.on feeding offer straw ad Lib and fresh water and a 18% p crunch meal.start on 300 gramms milk powder morning and evening in 3 ltrs water .after a week switch to oad feeding ,bring up quantity of powder to 7/800 gramms in 3 ltrs in a single feed

Base price

mahoney_j wrote: »

Deep clean and disinfect your calf pens first ,try and source calves from a single source.offer electrolytes on arrival .consider vaccinating for pneumonia with bovipast ,expensive but v well worth it.on feeding offer straw ad Lib and fresh water and a 18% p crunch meal.start on 300 gramms milk powder morning and evening in 3 ltrs water .after a week switch to oad feeding ,bring up quantity of powder to 7/800 gramms in 3 ltrs in a single feed

+1 about buying from a single source.
I have not bought a calf in a mart since the mid 90's. We source the majority of our calves from 5 dairy farmers that we have been dealing with over the years.
Regarding milk replacer - depends on the product, so best to read manufacturers instructions.

Hill Bill

Thanks for replies, just what I was looking for.
@ Base Price- I'd prefer heifers if I can source them at the right price, quicker turnaround to compare costs with current system.
Don't think I could move away from Continentals' altogether, hard to beat for weight gain.

Sam Kade

If you are going with milk replacer go with skim based, shine once a day is what I use. I always had problems with whey based milk replacer, calves would melt on it.

mahoney_j

Sam Kade wrote: »

If you are going with milk replacer go with skim based, shine once a day is what I use. I always had problems with whey based milk replacer, calves would melt on it.

Agree re shine and skim based powders but calves shouldn't melt on powder ,most likely mix is wrong ,inconsistent ,water too hot or feed times irregular

Sam Kade

mahoney_j wrote: »

Agree re shine and skim based powders but calves shouldn't melt on powder ,most likely mix is wrong ,inconsistent ,water too hot or feed times irregular

By powder I presume you mean whey based, I can assure you I've fed calves for many years on whey based with great attention to mixing, tempt, times etc and it always ended in disaster. The last time I used it I made it into yogurt and even then calves thrived a bit better but didn't thrive properly until they were eating enough ration and off replacer.

Cavanjack

Base price wrote: »

+1 about buying from a single source.
I have not bought a calf in a mart since the mid 90's. We source the majority of our calves from 5 dairy farmers that we have been dealing with over the years.
Regarding milk replacer - depends on the product, so best to read manufacturers instructions.

Do you not find you have to take the bad calves along with the good ones when you are always buying off the same farmers? If you build a relationship with a farmer and you go to look at 10 calves and 2 or 3 are screws do you not feel obliged to buy them?

Base price

Sam Kade wrote: »

If you are going with milk replacer go with skim based, shine once a day is what I use. I always had problems with whey based milk replacer, calves would melt on it.

Sam over the last few years since I have been on this site you have mentioned several times about using a skim based milk replacer. We have been using the same Whey based powder for the last 9/10 years except for this year. We reared less calves this year and purchased another brand locally which was ****e compared to the one we normally use. I was not impressed that there was a grainy yellow residue left in the mixer, teat feeders and the calves were iffy about the taste.
What cost per ltr do is shine once a day on volume purchase - 1 pallet delivered x 2 or 3 pallets during the rearing season - I'm hoping calf prices are back to normal this year

Base price

Cavanjack wrote: »

Do you not find you have to take the bad calves along with the good ones when you are always buying off the same farmers? If you build a relationship with a farmer and you go to look at 10 calves and 2 or 3 are screws do you not feel obliged to buy them?

Yep you do have to take the good with the bad including the fact that some now have JEx bloodlines in their herds - swings and roundabouts and priced accordingly. Our relationship is based on mutual trust and respect and that is why we are still dealing with the same farmers for years.
I have no fear of plain calves/cattle at the right price.

Carrigogunnell

Base price wrote: »

Sam over the last few years since I have been on this site you have mentioned several times about using a skim based milk replacer. We have been using the same Whey based powder for the last 9/10 years except for this year. We reared less calves this year and purchased another brand locally which was ****e compared to the one we normally use. I was not impressed that there was a grainy yellow residue left in the mixer, teat feeders and the calves were iffy about the taste.
What cost per ltr do is shine once a day on volume purchase - 1 pallet delivered x 2 or 3 pallets during the rearing season - I'm hoping calf prices are back to normal this year

Why did you decide to change products. What % protein replacer was it compared to other. Did the calves thrive on it as regards calf prices not sure but powder is back from 2 to 3 euro a bag.

Cavanjack

Base price wrote: »

Yep you do have to take the good with the bad including the fact that some now have JEx bloodlines in their herds - swings and roundabouts and priced accordingly. Our relationship is based on mutual trust and respect and that is why we are still dealing with the same farmers for years.
I have no fear of plain calves/cattle at the right price.

They would want to be coming at the right price ok. Bought good fr calves off a farmer last September for €120 and bad ones for €50. I'd rather not have €50 ones. The €70 difference will not go far when trying to fill them out with meal. They may be for the burdizzo.

Sam Kade

Base price wrote: »

Sam over the last few years since I have been on this site you have mentioned several times about using a skim based milk replacer. We have been using the same Whey based powder for the last 9/10 years except for this year. We reared less calves this year and purchased another brand locally which was ****e compared to the one we normally use. I was not impressed that there was a grainy yellow residue left in the mixer, teat feeders and the calves were iffy about the taste.
What cost per ltr do is shine once a day on volume purchase - 1 pallet delivered x 2 or 3 pallets during the rearing season - I'm hoping calf prices are back to normal this year

Yeah, I know I keep harping on about it but I have such bad experiences with whey based eg. maverick and volac. I bought shine once a day 2 years ago last time it was €49/bag 20kg I'm sure and worth every cent, whey based Maverick was about €45/bag at the time. That was buying it by the bag I presume it would be cheaper by the pallet. There is another crowd in Scotland doing skim milk and they would deliver a pallet no problem. Here's a link
http://www.britmilk.co.uk/content.asp?p=22

Base price

Sam Kade wrote: »

Yeah, I know I keep harping on about it but I have such bad experiences with whey based eg. maverick and volac. I bought shine once a day 2 years ago last time it was €49/bag 20kg I'm sure and worth every cent, whey based Maverick was about €45/bag at the time. That was buying it by the bag I presume it would be cheaper by the pallet. There is another crowd in Scotland doing skim milk and they would deliver a pallet no problem. Here's a link
http://www.britmilk.co.uk/content.asp?p=22

Thanks for the link. I will have a better look at it tomorrow.
It was Maverick that we used this year and although I used it 30 years ago its not the same stuff as it was then, doesn't smell or taste the same. Had several problems with scour and bloat.

Base price

Carrigogunnell wrote: »

Why did you decide to change products. What % protein replacer was it compared to other. Did the calves thrive on it as regards calf prices not sure but powder is back from 2 to 3 euro a bag.

We fed less calves this year due to over inflated prices particularly at the bottom end of market FR & FRx bulls. Savings are got on volume purchases - milk replacer, vaccines, mineral boluses, doses etc.
Because we were not feeding numbers there was little difference in price from buying the milk replacer locally as opposed from our normal supplier.

Sam Kade

Base price wrote: »

Thanks for the link. I will have a better look at it tomorrow.
It was Maverick that we used this year and although I used it 30 years ago its not the same stuff as it was then, doesn't smell or taste the same. Had several problems with scour and bloat.

Same here, I'm sure they changed from skim based in the 80's to whey based in the 90's. Also whey based proteins are plant extracts. I remember sending a calf that died to the lab in the early 90's that I was feeding maverick to twice a day and the result I got back was that the calf was starved :eek:

Base price

Sam Kade wrote: »

Same here, I'm sure they changed from skim based in the 80's to whey based in the 90's. Also whey based proteins are plant extracts. I remember sending a calf that died to the lab in the early 90's that I was feeding maverick to twice a day and the result I got back was that the calf was starved :eek:

The replacer we normally use has a lycine (spelling) added to it which is supposed to aid uptake of protein. Irrespective whether it does or not we are more than happy with it. Costs us (2014) .245/ltr not including water heating which I don't include as its a by product from the house. My brother installed a bigger water cylinder in the house a few years ago as the Rayburn is always on during the Winter/Spring. OH put an external hot water tap from the house so we can use the water for mixing. Occasionally we need to use the water heater in the yard to top up.

alps

mahoney_j wrote: »

Agree re shine and skim based powders but calves shouldn't melt on powder ,most likely mix is wrong ,inconsistent ,water too hot or feed times irregular

MJ, you on skim powders for dairy replacements?

I'm really torn on this topic. We have been using Heiferlac for a number of years, and have had years with differing results. Heiferlac is whey based, with dairy proteins at 26%. The sales spin is that high dairy proteins and low fat content grows the calf frame while maintaining appetite so that the calf consumes more concentrate than it would do on an equal fat/protein powder.

However NZ advise is to feed skim or whole milk powders as it is vital for a calf in its first 3 weeks that the milk will curdle.
Whey milk will not curdle....

Would love to hear other opinions on this whey v skim...

visatorro

However NZ advise is to feed skim or whole milk powders as it is vital for a calf in its first 3 weeks that the milk will curdle.
Whey milk will not curdle....


excuse my ignorance but what is the theory with crudling ?

btw am feeding whole milk to calves this year myself.

Sam Kade

visatorro wrote: »

However NZ advise is to feed skim or whole milk powders as it is vital for a calf in its first 3 weeks that the milk will curdle.
Whey milk will not curdle....


excuse my ignorance but what is the theory with crudling ?

btw am feeding whole milk to calves this year myself.

It takes longer for the calf to digest which reduces scour and increase thrift.

mahoney_j

alps wrote: »

MJ, you on skim powders for dairy replacements?

I'm really torn on this topic. We have been using Heiferlac for a number of years, and have had years with differing results. Heiferlac is whey based, with dairy proteins at 26%. The sales spin is that high dairy proteins and low fat content grows the calf frame while maintaining appetite so that the calf consumes more concentrate than it would do on an equal fat/protein powder.

However NZ advise is to feed skim or whole milk powders as it is vital for a calf in its first 3 weeks that the milk will curdle.
Whey milk will not curdle....

Would love to hear other opinions on this whey v skim...

I fed pro calf from interchem last year Alps which is whey based .had calves male/female on oad from a week old and built them up to 750 gramms in 3 ltrs .cslves always had fresh straw and an 18% p nut to nibble .no issues with digestive upsets etc and thrive was v good .i was happy anyway
Saying that best calves I reared here where on shine ,most stress free year ever raring calves ,serious thrive and shine of calves too .i will go do a bit of shopping soon but would have no issue using pro calf again

eddiek

at this time of year when switching calves to oad feeding do ye feed milk morning or evening? calves have access to paddock and getting a bit of meal

Base price

eddiek wrote: »

at this time of year when switching calves to oad feeding do ye feed milk morning or evening? calves have access to paddock and getting a bit of meal

I always fed milk in the morning more from the routine of it and it gets it out of the way. The would also have access to meal but I would top up meal in the evening. Normally our calves would be off milk by the time the weather is good enough for them to be out to grass.