Intermittent starting problem. Flywheel or what?

James Bond Junior

Hi all, I have a 1.8 tdci focus that is giving an intermittent starting problem. Sometimes the car refuses to start when I turn the key. Turn the key and no reaction. I can get it going by pushing the car forwards a few inches and it will fire but lately this isn't enough. At the moment if I give it a push and the car is moving it won't start but if I put it in gear as it freewheels along, release the clutch and turn the key at the same time it it will fire up. Turn it off immediately and you can bet your life it will start again first turn. Leaving the car sitting for 24 hours gives a 50/50 chance of not being able to start but it can happen without warning after 10 minutes of being turned off.
A mechanic friend reckons it's a flat spot on the flywheel. I put a new alternator in last February and a new starter during the summer. Any ideas lads and ladies? I don't want to stick a new flywheel and clutch in and not explore any other options or solutions.

Waterson

I would be checking your ignition switch followed by the starter motor wiring.

James Bond Junior

How would one go about checking the ignition switch?

porsche boy

Sounds like a stuck solanoid on the starter to me.

James Bond Junior

James Bond Junior wrote: »

.....Turn the key and no reaction............

As in nothing?

New alternator and starter rules out a great deal to be fair.
I'd be getting it to an auto spark for a looksee before going the option your mechanic reckons is the fix.

James Bond Junior

I put a brand new starter in during the summer as the old one was slipping. Mechanic reckoned that damaged the flywheel hence the current problems. I'm just not convinced.

James Bond Junior

Augeo wrote: »

As in nothing?

Nothing. No click. Nothing. First time it happened I thought dead battery but I had lights, radio the lot. And the alternator problem last February was thought to be a battery issue first so I put a new battery in. I do 300 miles a week just on my commute so battery gets well charged so I knew it wasn't the battery.

martinr5232

Sounds like a faulty starter to me ive never seen an ignition switch go faulty on a focus.
Its easy enough to diagnose check for power on the small wire going onto the solinoid while someone turns the key to the start position.

OldmanMondeo

Faulty starter, poor electrical connections for earthing, battery nearing end of life will cause slow starting. These will kill a DMF quickly. You need to get all checked out before the DMF if knackered.

James Bond Junior

The starter was slipping for a good while before I got it replaced so it could have damaged the dmf? A possibility oldmanmondeo?

mullingar

That starter motor is one of the easiest to access for testing. A fused wire directly from the battery to the solenoid will tell.

James Bond Junior

mullingar wrote: »

That starter motor is one of the easiest to access for testing. A fused wire directly from the battery to the solenoid will tell.

I'll get the starter checked but unfortunately as the problem is intermittent and can't be caused on demand it may be hard..

OldmanMondeo

James Bond Junior wrote: »

The starter was slipping for a good while before I got it replaced so it could have damaged the dmf? A possibility oldmanmondeo?

More like a probability... The amount of DMF replacements I see back due to the mechanic not checking as to why it failed in the first place. Poor charging batteries, slow starting starters, poor earthing all can cause the DMF to fail. But a failed DMF will not effect the starting of the car, there is another problem there.

Ned1tp

Get rid of it fix it or don't but get rid of it they are the biggest heap of .... I've ever seen endless amounts of problems

James Bond Junior

James Bond Junior wrote: »

Nothing. No click. Nothing. First time it happened I thought dead battery but I had lights, radio the lot. And the alternator problem last February was thought to be a battery issue first so I put a new battery in. I do 300 miles a week just on my commute so battery gets well charged so I knew it wasn't the battery.

Flywheel cannot be responsible for that, 100% electrical

James Bond Junior

Augeo wrote: »

Flywheel cannot be responsible for that, 100% electrical

Happened again this evening. I can hear a single click when I turn the key but nothing happens. I called into my mechanic earlier and he is adamant it's a flat spot on the flywheel. I mentioned to him about a solonoid on the starter as he said he would have a look and see first but as he only fitted a starter during the summer he is not inclined to think so. Said the auto spark he gets to supply starters is very picky about the parts he supplies and he has never seen one fail so soon after fitting.

James Bond Junior

Ned1tp wrote: »

Get rid of it fix it or don't but get rid of it they are the biggest heap of .... I've ever seen endless amounts of problems

Thanks for that. I've put 40000 miles up on it in the past two years and all I've had to replace is the starter and alternator and a drop link. Other than that it has been flawless so I'm not inclined not in a position to get rid unless absolutely needed.

pablo128

James Bond Junior wrote: »

Happened again this evening. I can hear a single click when I turn the key but nothing happens. I called into my mechanic earlier and he is adamant it's a flat spot on the flywheel. I mentioned to him about a solonoid on the starter as he said he would have a look and see first but as he only fitted a starter during the summer he is not inclined to think so. Said the auto spark he gets to supply starters is very picky about the parts he supplies and he has never seen one fail so soon after fitting.

New/reconditioned starters can easily be faulty. I work for a large car parts distributors, partly in the returns/warranty section. We see faulty starters coming back pretty regular, like any other electrical parts.

martinr5232

If that was a faulty ringgear as your mechanic is suggesting you would hear a lot more noise than a click you would get a crunching sound then a whirring sound.
I said it already that is a faulty starter.

James Bond Junior

martinr5232 wrote: »

If that was a faulty ringgear as your mechanic is suggesting you would hear a lot more noise than a click you would get a crunching sound then a whirring sound.
I said it already that is a faulty starter.

Thanks for that. He said he will check the starter 1st and turn the engine with the starter removed to check the flywheel is ok before doing anything else. I just don't want to spend a few hundred on a flywheel replacement for it not to be the issue and what's being said here is confirming my doubts.

Edit update: I tried starting it at 5pm and it wouldn't even give a hint of a start. Came back 2mins ago and started 1st time. If it was a flat spot on the flywheel like the mech says why would it start after being left? It has happened in the past where the key is turned but it takes a second or two before it actually fires.

martinr5232

Its not possible for a flywheel to give the symptoms your describing.

James Bond Junior

James Bond Junior wrote: »

......If it was a flat spot on the flywheel like the mech says why would it start after being left?...........

Your mechanic sounds fairly weak technically. Your problem is 0% flywheel related.

James Bond Junior

Augeo wrote: »

Your mechanic sounds fairly weak technically. Your problem is 0% flywheel related.

I have two mechanics. One is v good but expensive and lives near my gf in Kerry. The 2nd guy is local, doesn't rob me but there has been a few issues such as threading the break calliper meaning it was sticking. He did the starter last summer and I have to bring it back to him in the hope of getting a free replacement starter. It would be going to Kerry otherwise.

Waterson

Ignition switch problems in the first gen Focus are common. I changed one out last week. Similar symptons and easily tested/ruled out.
OP the starter system comprises the battery, a relay, starter motor and accompanying wiring. A high resistance or poor connection in any of the wiring would cause intermittent non start isues. It could be the starter motor, but its certainly not the flywheel.

bear1

I can't see how the flywheel could have gotten to such a bad state in order to stop it making contact with the starter. You'd know way before that stage that the flywheel is on the way out.
Do the lights go on at all? Is everything dead? Have you tried hitting the start to see if it lets it start? Have you tried jump starting it? If the starter has failed you will still have electrical power and it will still start when jumped. Simply turning the key won't.

James Bond Junior

bear1 wrote: »

I can't see how the flywheel could have gotten to such a bad state in order to stop it making contact with the starter. You'd know way before that stage that the flywheel is on the way out.
Do the lights go on at all? Is everything dead? Have you tried hitting the start to see if it lets it start? Have you tried jump starting it? If the starter has failed you will still have electrical power and it will still start when jumped. Simply turning the key won't.

A push start with the car in gear will get it going. I'm pretty convinced it's not the flywheel. It's not rattling bar a small shudder on power off. Like last night I tried starting it at 5 and it was not going. Went back at 6 and it started first time.

James Bond Junior

For anybody interested, starter was removed and the flywheel checked for flat spots and there were none. New starter fitted as auto spark checked everything but couldn't check solonoid. As it was new enough he replaced it for free. Fingers crossed I'm out the gap!

Waterson

Thanks for the update and glad its sorted, I wonder why he couldnt check the solenoid??

James Bond Junior

Waterson wrote: »

Thanks for the update and glad its sorted, I wonder why he couldnt check the solenoid??

It was easier to replace than take it out apparently. Or else he didn't want to admit it was a dodgy one supplied..

Waterson

Get thee to a new autosparx would be my advise for the future, still he covered it and hopefully thats the end of the issue.