Change from tank fed shower to mains fed

Agent_47

Triton T90XR Tank fed shower starting to trip the RCBO whenever the heat is raised.

As this is the 3rd unit to go (they last 7 to 8 years) and as it is a noisy shower I am looking to do the following.

Go for a mains fed unit taking a feed from either a) or b)

a) the mains feed to the tank - although not sure if the water pressure is sufficient

b) fit perhaps a Salamander hi pressure pump in the attic, fed from the shower tank feed and then into a mains fed shower.

Mains fed showers are cheaper and quieter, even a salamander pump would be quieter.

Any thoughts?

What would such a pump cost and where to get it?

John T Carroll

Agent_47 wrote: »

Triton T90XR Tank fed shower starting to trip the RCBO whenever the heat is raised.

As this is the 3rd unit to go (they last 7 to 8 years) and as it is a noisy shower I am looking to do the following.

Go for a mains fed unit taking a feed from either a) or b)

a) the mains feed to the tank - although not sure if the water pressure is sufficient

b) fit perhaps a Salamander hi pressure pump in the attic, fed from the shower tank feed and then into a mains fed shower.

Mains fed showers are cheaper and quieter, even a salamander pump would be quieter.

Any thoughts?

What would such a pump cost and where to get it?

A mains fed shower mightnt last much longer, depending on usage.
You dont say if the shower is located upstairs or downstairs, upstairs will require around 0.6 Bar greater (mains) pressure. In my opinion you will need a minimum of a consistent 2.6 Bar at ground level, I have a minimum of 2.8/3.0 Bar and have never had a problem with my upstairs bathroom located mains shower, I teed it off inside in the bathroom and run the bathroom toilet, cold Sink&Bath Taps and the shower all off the mains.
If you intend to go with a boosted supply from the header tank to the mains designed Shower then this pump may satisfy your needs, a neighbour has one of these fitted for a different duty and it sounds very quiet.
http://www.ie.screwfix.com/stuart-turner-techflo-tp-s-positive-head-twin-shower-pump-2bar-7db81c.html

Are you sure that the shower has been fitted correctly? ie installed against the wall properly?, I frequently shower in a relatives pumped Mira shower and the noise certainly isnt too intrusive.
Re the mains pressure above, if you have any neighbours near you just ask them if they use mains supplied showers, failing that the only sure way to check if you have an adequate supply is to fit a 0 to 10 Bar pressure gauge and observe it over a few days or so.
You could also talk to a plumber(s) as this sort of stuff would be second nature to them.

Triton make this one...... http://secure.tritonshowers.co.uk/shower-pumps/t450i-single-impeller-booster-pump.html#

Carried out a few tests with a pressure gauge on the mains at ground level. My shower, a Mira Sport 9.0 Kw @230V, will still operate perfectly at full power even if I throttle in the mains to give an indicated 1.3 Bar., the Flow Control Valve setting has then to be at the "twenty to" clock position to give a showering temperature of around 42C. Below this pressure, the Low Flow light will illuminate and the micro switches open and the water goes cold (obviously). The Mira Users manual states that "The required minimum maintained pressure is 0.7 Bar" so this ties up with the 1.3 Bar mains pressure minus the 0.6 Bar static head at bathroom level. Assuming that all makers showers are fairly similar then it would appear that a maintained mains pressure of 1.5 bar for a bathroom installed shower or 1.0 Bar for a ground floor installation would be adequate and a maintained mains pressure of 2.0 Bar would cover all eventualities.
.

Sleeper12

Are you planning on moving away from an electric shower altogether? Or are you just thinking about changing from tank fed electric to mains fed shower?
If you are sticking with an electric shower you can change to mains shower, take feed from tank and put small pump on it. Two things to remember, the pump in the attic will make noise too and you will still have to slow the flow of water for the shower to heat it up. So the pressure Will be the same as you have now.
The fault with your existing shower is the element. Its just as likely that the element in a mains fed shower Will go just as quickly.you get on average 10 years out of an electric shower, possibly 20 years for an oap living alone and 7 to 8 years for heavy usage.
Having a separate pump adds another appliance in the chain that can break and need replacing or repairs.
What I'm trying to say is that it certainly can be done but I don't really see any advantage in changing your existing set-up. If you have to spend 300 supplied and fitted for a pumped electric showers every 8 to 10 years I don't think that you will spend less going the other way

Agent_47

Thanks for the replies, the wall the shower is located on is dry lined, the noise in the shower is loud from the pump in the T90xr.
It is a bungalow and my preference would be mains fed. It would appear I could tee off from the mains incoming to the tank, i may go for trying to descale the heater element.
I accept the shower will still need replacing every 7-8 years after heavy use but the mains fed are cheaper and there are more options and ranges.
I presume I need a minimum of 1 Bar pressure?

Sleeper12

Agent_47 wrote:

Thanks for the replies, the wall the shower is located on is dry lined, the noise in the shower is loud from the pump in the T90xr. It is a bungalow and my preference would be mains fed. It would appear I could tee off from the mains incoming to the tank, i may go for trying to descale the heater element. I accept the shower will still need replacing every 7-8 years after heavy use but the mains fed are cheaper and there are more options and ranges. I presume I need a minimum of 1 Bar pressure?

There's no point trying to descale the element. Scale can't make it trip. If the element is making the rcbo trip you need a new element or shower.

If you go for a mains fed shower the triton t80z is the best one out there. Costs around 200 in woodies.

The main problem with mains fed showers in Ireland is most of the country doesn't have suitable water pressure. They are designed for England where the water pressure can be up to 10 bar. It would be normal to fit a pressure reduction valve on the water mains in the UK. If you measure your water pressure and you have 1.5 bar you could measure it an hour later and it's half that. There are a lot of people in Dublin that can't use their electric shower between 7a.m. and 8p.m. due to water pressure. I've seen showers that only have enough pressure after midnight. If you don't have good enough pressure you don't get a warm shower with a drip of water. The water will be stone cold. Now that is all worse scenario. These showers can and do work well in some areas.

The ideal way to fit a mains fed electric shower in Ireland is to take the feed from the tank and put a small pump in the attic.

If buying a cheap mains fed shower stay away from Argus and b&q. These bring most of their showers in from the UK. If it is a model that EARTHRIDGE doesn't import into Ireland then they won't cover the warranty and they don't even sell these parts if you want to pay for repairs yourself.

youtheman

I started with a mains fed electric shower, then went to a tank fed electric shower and eventually ended up with a pumped system directly from the tank with thermostatic mixer (and a solar system with 300 liter tank). Two main disadvantages with mains fed shower compared to tank fed :
1. the water temperature will essentially be a ground temperature, so it will be significantly colder during the winter. As the heating element is a fixed power output you will have to reduce the water flow to keep the desired output temperature from the shower. So during the winter you will have to 'run around the shower to get wet'.
2. the shower is affected by drops in pressure due to, for example, someone flushing the jacks or a demand for water elsewhere. If the pressure drops the flow drops and the output temperature goes up, and it can get very uncomfortable not to mention a right pain in the ass.

The only advantage the mains fed has over the tank fed is that you don't have a pump (and therefore much quieter).

Agent_47

Cheers, thanks for the replies and the warranty issues Sleeper. Have ordered same old from Woodies (T90XR).
Not a fan of Triton, the chrome plating shed off the shower riser bar and the shower head unit retainer simply corroded away!

Are Mira any better?

Sleeper12

Agent_47 wrote:

Are Mira any better?

Mira are a nightmare. They are famous for mixing valves (a dial on the wall) and they are still good at those. They have never made a good electric shower or power shower. They cause around 25% more trouble than triton electric showers. The spare parts cost almost twice triton parts. They use a very cheap plastic. It goes very brittle after awhile and the white plastic turns yellow. They have a new model out, the Mira elite qt. They are having major issues with the pump in them. More than 10% of them need repairing within the first 3weeks of fitting. They won't tell us what the replacement parts will cost outside of the warranty so it looks like they'll be ridiculous prices

LIFFY FISHING

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Mira are a nightmare. They are famous for mixing valves (a dial on the wall) and they are still good at those. They have never made a good electric shower or power shower. They cause around 25% more trouble than triton electric showers. The spare parts cost almost twice triton parts. They use a very cheap plastic. It goes very brittle after awhile and the white plastic turns yellow. They have a new model out, the Mira elite qt. They are having major issues with the pump in them. More than 10% of them need repairing within the first 3weeks of fitting. They won't tell us what the replacement parts will cost outside of the warranty so it looks like they'll be ridiculous prices

Where did you get these "Qualified" stats from ?

John T Carroll

Mira sales will soon be "tanking" then if thats the case, you cant fool all of the people all of the time. Mira certainly made a fairly decent mains electric shower a decade or so ago, mine will be 9 years old very shortly with no issues, my daughters is either 10 or 11 years old, also with no issues to date.

Sleeper12

LIFFY FISHING wrote: »

Where did you get these "Qualified" stats from ?

We are a shower repair company. We work on close to 1000 shower per year. Any dedicated shower repair company will tell you the same.

The Mira Elite is known in the trade as the poor mans electric shower. These showers became popular because you could get them supplied & fitted & the cost of this spread out over 3 years on your ESB bill. This is how Mira got its foot in the door with their electric showers. Their sales have been slowly slipping since the ESB shops closed down. The Mira Elite was so bad that the new Mira Elite qt hasn't got a single part that would fit in the old Elite. Nothing, not even a washer. We have fit 33 Mira Elite qt showers since launch. Four of these that we know of had to be repaired under warranty. This is slightly more than 10%.Mira don't even have confidence in their own product. Their Mira Event & Mira Vigour are the only power showers that come with a 12 month warranty. The other manufactures give between 2 & 5 Years.

We install & repair all makes inc Mira. We've no vested interest in any Manufacture. Your local plumber or electrician installs 4 to 10 electric showers per year. They don't come back & rep[air them. Their knowledge as to what is the best shower would usually be quite limited.
Likewise someone saying I had a Mira Elite for 15 years & never had trouble with it "they are a great shower", are really is saying my individual shower never gave me any trouble.