Best PRSA provider in Ireland?

One More Toy

Hello all,

Just curious, who is the best and cheapest for a standard PRSA these days?

One More Toy

Bump?

Frogdog

Probably best to get in contact with an independent fee-based financial broker/advisor.

PaulM1977

It depends on the provider and the amount you are willing to contribute on a monthly basis as to what type of PRSA you can get, i.e. cheapest but also giving 100% allocation.

Thanks

PaulM

Merowig

Am in the same situation as I am looking for a cheap PRSA for my fiancee (for myself I have a very generous company defined contribution scheme where my company also pays all charges).

Many years ago the Pension board provided an excel file online (the latest I found was from 2003!!) listing the costs for all PRSAs.
http://web.archive.org/web/20031116184321/http:/www.pensionsboard.ie/_fileupload/uploads/PRSAProductsandCharges.xls

I have contacted recently the Pension Authority to get an updated version of that.
They deflected / avoided a straight answer to my query twice ( "not obligated to maintain this information" bla bla) - as I am sure they have this information I've sent then an email to their Freedom of Information Officer on Saturday - I was emailed back today and had then a call with her.

They are looking now into it and I was told I should get the excel by the end of March. They consider as well to republish this information on their website.
I am surprised that I was not able to find one single more or less up to date comparison of different PRSA products (nothing on Bonkers.ie at all))

http://www.pensionsauthority.ie/en/Regulation/PRSAs/PRSA_Providers_Products_Register_Sept_2015_.pdf
Has a list of all providers - but I don't have the time to write to all of them asking for a quote.

Most, if not all of them have a contribution charge which I see as robbery. So am looking for a PRSA with zero contribution charges, low fund charges (1% and lower) and preferably a passive managed fund/ ETF.

phantom_lord

Merowig wrote: »

Am in the same situation as I am looking for a cheap PRSA for my fiancee (for myself I have a very generous company defined contribution scheme where my company also pays all charges).

Many years ago the Pension board provided an excel file online (the latest I found was from 2003!!) listing the costs for all PRSAs.
http://web.archive.org/web/20031116184321/http:/www.pensionsboard.ie/_fileupload/uploads/PRSAProductsandCharges.xls

I have contacted recently the Pension Authority to get an updated version of that.
They deflected / avoided a straight answer to my query twice ( "not obligated to maintain this information" bla bla - as I am sure they have this information I sent then an email to their Freedom of Information Officer on Saturday - I was emailed back today and had then a call with her.

They are looking now into it and I was told I should get the excel by the end of March. They consider as wel lto republish this information on their website.
I am surprised that I was not able to find one single more or less up to date comparison of different PRSA products (nothing on Bonkers.ie at all))

http://www.pensionsauthority.ie/en/Regulation/PRSAs/PRSA_Providers_Products_Register_Sept_2015_.pdf
Has a list of all providers - but I don't have the time to write to all of them asking for a quote.

Most, if not all of them have a contribution charge which I see as robbery. So am looking for a PRSA with zero contribution charges, low fund charges (1% and lower) and preferably a passive managed fund/ ETF.

http://www.labrokers.ie/pensions/irishlifePRSA.aspx


I think it's mad that's there not more cheap self-directed ones, I think Davy is the only provider that offers it, but there's a lot of charges.

Merowig

phantom_lord wrote: »

http://www.labrokers.ie/pensions/irishlifePRSA.aspx


I think it's mad that's there not more cheap self-directed ones, I think Davy is the only provider that offers it, but there's a lot of charges.

Thanks a lot for this! They also have one from Zurich with zero contribution charge.

MortgageBroker

Merowig wrote: »

Thanks a lot for this! They also have one from Zurich with zero contribution charge.

If you speak to any broker they usually have the ability to offer the same as any other broker and usually can beat any life co. that sells direct (such as Irish Life as they generally don't let direct sales manipulate the margin), the question is 'will they' which brings us to the next consideration - do you know what you want precisely?

If so then an execution only offering like the one LA Brokers do (good long running co. btw) is fine, or you could email a few other broker and see if they'd do it for less again. If on the other hand you want to talk to anybody then chances are you won't get a deal like that as you'll be into the area of advice which takes more time.

If you are young and just need to start something, a low cost PRSA is by far and away (generally) the best choice possible, if you are a bit older or self employed it would be worth chatting with somebody qualified to give advice.

Carawaystick

MortgageBroker wrote: »

If you are young and just need to start something, a low cost PRSA is by far and away (generally) the best choice possible,

I think we're trying to find low cost PRSA's though
1% management fee is still outrageously high.

PaulM1977

Carawaystick wrote: »

I think we're trying to find low cost PRSA's though
1% management fee is still outrageously high.

That is the standard AMC for a PRSA, you won't get lower than that.

Merowig

Yes am looking for a low cost PRSA for now - as most actively managed funds are not beating the market and I don't want to make a broker rich.

Have asked now for quotes via ladbrokers for the Zurich and Irish Life PRSAs - but will definitely wait for the feedback I'll get from the Pension Authority.

Will also contact Davy as they have 0.75% AMC
http://www.davyselect.ie/binaries/content/assets/davyselect/pdfs/execution-only-fees-charges.pdf#page=5
But Overseas Charges (minimum Fee of 0.10% + 25 Euro custody charge per trade for every instrument listed outside UKI) comes on top of that so it looks this is only more suitable for big amounts.

1% alone is already a lot and I can't understand anyone is willing to pay on top of that contribution charges of up to 5%....


Transparency is definitely missing on that subject.

Merowig

PaulM1977 wrote: »

That is the standard AMC for a PRSA, you won't get lower than that.

To be more precise: It is the maximum AMC a standard PRSA can charge.
Davy (Non Standard afaik) charges 0.75% - but there are additional charges on top of that (which are so far not that transparent to me).

http://www.bestadvice.ie/uploaded/ZL_Pguide0914.pdf
Has some starting at 0.5% - but with different minimum contributions (50k/100k).

phantom_lord

Merowig wrote: »

Yes am looking for a low cost PRSA for now - as most actively managed funds are not beating the market and I don't want to make a broker rich.

Have asked now for quotes via ladbrokers for the Zurich and Irish Life PRSAs - but will definitely wait for the feedback I'll get from the Pension Authority.

Will also contact Davy as they have 0.75% AMC
http://www.davyselect.ie/binaries/content/assets/davyselect/pdfs/execution-only-fees-charges.pdf#page=5
But Overseas Charges (minimum Fee of 0.10% + 25 Euro custody charge per trade for every instrument listed outside UKI) comes on top of that so it looks this is only more suitable for big amounts.

1% alone is already a lot and I can't understand anyone is willing to pay on top of that contribution charges of up to 5%....


Transparency is definitely missing on that subject.

Zurich only have actively managed funds, Irish Life have passive funds.

PaulM1977

Merowig wrote: »

To be more precise: It is the maximum AMC a standard PRSA can charge.
Davy (Non Standard afaik) charges 0.75% - but there are additional charges on top of that (which are so far not that transparent to me).

http://www.bestadvice.ie/uploaded/ZL_Pguide0914.pdf
Has some starting at 0.5% - but with different minimum contributions (50k/100k).

Those AMC charges are not for PRSA's, they would specifically be directed at business owners/self employed who have a large lump sum that the company can put in to an executive pension plan for tax purposes. This is done from September until the end of the year, when most people are doing their tax returns and can get tax relief on the contributions made at this time. Although it is dated from 2014 it is run every year by most pension providers in some form or another(i.e. these AMC rates may not be available this year).
Davy have minimum payment thresholds, so if you want to pay a large monthly contribution then you may get the 0.75% from them, but as this is essentially for a lower monthly premium, the 1% is the best available. No one else would be this low.

Merowig

PaulM1977 wrote: »

Davy have minimum payment thresholds, so if you want to pay a large monthly contribution then you may get the 0.75% from them, but as this is essentially for a lower monthly premium, the 1% is the best available. No one else would be this low.

I did contact Davy and they told me there is no minimum contribution.
On the top of the 0.75 - there are different ETF charges - but if I pick a UK listed ETF I can avoid at least the overseas and custody charges - depending on the ETF picked I could still stay below the yearly 1%.

Merowig

An overview of all PRSAs and their charges as of April this year:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bwsxfnty94iTbUE4aEl5SkpYaG8/view

Basically confirms what was said in this thread already

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

IhateSFMA

Hey guys

Thanks for all the information here. It's really useful. I'm thinking of setting up a PRSA (I'm happy to allow someone else manage investments instead of me handpicking).

Irish Life, Zurich seem to have some products with 0% contribution charges and other products with 5% contribution charges. What's the purpose behind this? I thought everyone would by default choose the 0% product.

Really a novice to this so may be obvious answer.

liamds

Irish Banks, Insurance companies, Credit Institutions are ripping off PRSA pension savers. I have given this a lot of thought and it appears the only way around the obscene charges is to form a mutual PRSA provider. The aim would be to provide a self administered PRSA with nil charges. Would any one who is interested in this concept rely to this

ReadySteadyGo

In theory I am interested in this.

Even with all the best will in the world, this is not a simple DIY concern, and would involve paying professionals. There are legal requirements you must meet to run a PRSA/Pension though, some of them paperwork/documentary, some of them having people with appropriate qualifications overseeing the PRSA, so

For several years I have been with davy .75% AMC PRSA, within which I hold ETFs, as I believe that is the lowest cost option available to an Irish consumer to have access to the returns of several large markets, and to have visibility on the actual costs.

FYI - I understand that Davy would pay .25% commission to a financial advisor, if the financial advisor introduced the money/client to Davy. So the minimal product would be to setup the mutuals product offering using Davy.

padser

daveirl wrote: »

I've not done exhaustive research by any means but Davy's platform appears to be the best IMO. The management fee isn't too bad, although it's still considerably higher than what I was charged for my SIPP in the UK. What shocked me when looking into this was how high some of the charges levied on the initial contributions can be. I find it offensive to be charged those at all!

I've just checked Davy and Zurich so far. Seems like 0.75% is the minimum and you can get that with Zurich by buying into their own funds (with Davy it's minimum of 0.85% once you factor on the etf fund cost)

What I don't understand, is that with Davy if I have a trading account they charge me 0.5% to get in and 0.5% to get out of am etf, and after that it's just a flat yearly account charge - seems to make sense. There are costs to trade and costs to maintain the account.

But for a PRSA. Where I'm planning to leave money in funds for years, they want 0.75% per yr (no transaction fees). They don't tier it down depending on size of account, so I appear to be paying them 0.75% year after year for them to not do anything........

I'm going to check a few more next week to see if I can find something cheaper for a passive etf type fund - to be honest I'd rather pay something (not 5% obviously) to get the money into it if it meant I could avoid significant yearly fees...

Merowig

I am hoping that the rollout of the pan-European pension product will increase competition and lead to a decrease in fees. Pitty only that Britain will leave the EU...

Dardania

I have resolved to pay the 0.75% with Davy from my normal everyday income. And leave what is invested, invested, in accumulating ETFs, to maximise compound interest.

@padser, I think it was on askaboutmoney.com that I read there is another possibility in Ireland for cheaper PRSA for passive investing, but the minimum amount invested needs to be above €30k if I recall?