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Mick Wallace & Cerberus

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  • 22-12-2015 9:19am
    #1
    Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 1,331 ✭✭✭


    New thread seeing as the other thread was locked and there is new activity on this with a court case next week.

    http://www.irishtimes.com/business/commercial-property/mick-wallace-to-face-court-over-2m-loan-1.2474380

    Will be interesting to see what defence he will take. Wonder will he curtail his lavish lifestyle (bailing a member of the IRA on explosive charges / regular trips to his “brothers” vineyard in Italy / Ireland and Italys greatest soccer supporter (attends most games and has season tickets with two Italian clubs) to pay back some of the money he owes?

    Hopefully Micks supporters will see the real motives of his vendetta with Cerberus. As I posted in the other thread the timing of Mick going after Cerebus is in line with when Cerberus would have purchased his loans from Ulster Bank (at which point he then owed the money to Cerberus) so I can only guess (due to the timing and the fact that we haven’t heard him complain about any other NAMA buyers) that he was hoping to be offered a nice settlement on the QT in exchange for his silence only to get lucky with a whistle-blower up north.


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Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,923 ✭✭✭To Elland Back


    You had me at 'lavish lifestyle' :)

    Continue


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,184 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    You had me at 'lavish lifestyle' :)

    Continue

    This is a forum for serious debate. Please read the charter before posting again.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,923 ✭✭✭To Elland Back


    This is a forum for serious debate. Please read the charter before posting again.

    Apologies, I'll qualify my sarcasm

    Mick does not have a Juventus season ticket, nor does he follow them
    Mick has a Torino season ticket, which costs approx €300 and has publicly stated he goes to 5/6 matches a year
    His brother is a wealthy retailer in Wexford and bought Mick's vineyard to help him out financially before he became a TD
    Mick still drives the 05 jeep he had before the recession
    He obviously doesn't trouble Louis Copeland for his clothes or Dylan Bradshaw for his hair.

    I'm not a fan of Mick, but I know what I'm talking about


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 21,727 ✭✭✭✭Godge


    Apologies, I'll qualify my sarcasm

    Mick does not have a Juventus season ticket, nor does he follow them
    Mick has a Torino season ticket, which costs approx €300 and has publicly stated he goes to 5/6 matches a year
    His brother is a wealthy retailer in Wexford and bought Mick's vineyard to help him out financially before he became a TD
    Mick still drives the 05 jeep he had before the recession
    He obviously doesn't trouble Louis Copeland for his clothes or Dylan Bradshaw for his hair.

    I'm not a fan of Mick, but I know what I'm talking about

    In which part of Wexford is five or six trips to Italy every year not a lavish lifestyle? Not to mention following the Irish team around?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,923 ✭✭✭To Elland Back


    Godge wrote: »
    In which part of Wexford is five or six trips to Italy every year not a lavish lifestyle? Not to mention following the Irish team around?

    Everyone has a passion in life where they direct their resources. If those trips were a small part of other excesses you might have a point. Lots of Wexford lads head off to Old Trafford, Anfield and The Emirates Stadium a good few times a year and entry to those grounds cost a damn sight more than Torino


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 21,727 ✭✭✭✭Godge


    Everyone has a passion in life where they direct their resources. If those trips were a small part of other excesses you might have a point. Lots of Wexford lads head off to Old Trafford, Anfield and The Emirates Stadium a good few times a year and entry to those grounds cost a damn sight more than Torino

    Those lads don't owe the Revenue millions. That is the crucial point. Wallace is taking those trips at the expense of the ordinary taxpayer, to whom he owes millions.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,923 ✭✭✭To Elland Back


    I don't disagree with that but the OP embelished the facts to make his point


  • Registered Users Posts: 88 ✭✭Forbearance


    Wallace may or may not owe the revenue millions, but this Government has facilitated the likes of Cerberus take billions, not millions, out of the Irish economy ( section 110 company, quafids etc ) TAX FREE !


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 21,727 ✭✭✭✭Godge


    Wallace may or may not owe the revenue millions, but this Government has facilitated the likes of Cerberus take billions, not millions, out of the Irish economy ( section 110 company, quafids etc ) TAX FREE !

    Who is defending Cerberus? They exploited a legal loophole. The Department of Finance and Revenue were deficient in their duty, as was the Government, as was the Dail. I don't recall anyone mentioning any of this as the legislation went through and gave the likes of Cerberus a loophole. Is there any amendment tabled at the time? The Oireachtas website would have details. Those civil servants, Government Ministers, and TDs from all sides deserve condemnation for allowing the Section 110 loophole. The fact that all are wise after the event means the blame should be shared. Cerberus didn't break the law, they exploited it.

    Wallace on the other hand broke the law.


  • Registered Users Posts: 88 ✭✭Forbearance


    Cerberus did not exploit any tax loophole, the Dept of Finance, at the behest of Noonan, invited these vultures to the table ( repeatedly ) and asked what they wanted in order to come here and " invest ". They obviously told Noonan and the Dept, that any profit they make here must be tax free. Noonan then altered the tax consolidation acts in 2011 to make this possible. The loophole was not there in the first instance, it was invented and when Stephen Donnelly raised the issue in the Dail Francis Fitzgerald said that revenue would look into the matter. What ****! By the way, treason, is breaking the law.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 20,397 ✭✭✭✭FreudianSlippers


    Cerberus did not exploit any tax loophole, the Dept of Finance, at the behest of Noonan, invited these vultures to the table ( repeatedly ) and asked what they wanted in order to come here and " invest ". They obviously told Noonan and the Dept, that any profit they make here must be tax free. Noonan then altered the tax consolidation acts in 2011 to make this possible. The loophole was not there in the first instance, it was invented and when Stephen Donnelly raised the issue in the Dail Francis Fitzgerald said that revenue would look into the matter. What ****! By the way, treason, is breaking the law.
    Section 110 was last amended by the Finance Act 1996 as far as I can see. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt in that the Irish Statute Book isn't always the most up-to-date with amendments, so do you have evidence to support this claim you're making?


  • Registered Users Posts: 88 ✭✭Forbearance


    Orphaned section 110's became the vehicle of choice for the early funds operating here since 2011.

    The specific features of Irish tax law that enable Section 110 companies to do this include the fact that there are no ‘thin capitalisation’ laws in Ireland (there is no minimum profit required for a company for tax purposes, so an SPV can strip out all of its taxable profits if it chooses). Any costs of raising finance are tax-deductible under Section 110.

    The most important provision of the law has been Section 110(4) which permits a Section 110 company to take a deduction for “profit participating interest” if certain conditions are met. The Finance Act 2011 introduced anti-avoidance provisions that sought to deny deductibility for that profit element of interest, but included exceptions that made the measures meaningless.

    The anti-avoidance provisions do not apply (so interest is fully deductible) where the recipient of the interest or other distribution is either a person resident in Ireland, or a person (resident in an EU Member State or tax treaty country who is not “connected” with the SPV) who is a pension fund, government body or other person who is exempted from tax which generally applies to profits, income or gains in that jurisdiction. Just in case any of those exemptions do not do the trick, the Finance Act 2011 also introduced an exemption on withholding tax on interest paid through quoted eurobonds.


  • Registered Users Posts: 88 ✭✭Forbearance


    Then in 2012 came the Qualified Investor Alernative Investment Funds ( QIAIFS ), then in 2015 came the Irish Collective Asset Management Vehicle ( ICAV ) all as a result of lobbying by funds so as to extract profit ( tax free ) from the sale of distressed Irish mortgages. Make no bones about it, Irish Government has been in on this since inception. The mind boggles, Ireland still is the financial Wild West.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 916 ✭✭✭osmiumartist


    Wallace is on what, 90k+ like every other TD? Flights to Italy are 100 Euro. I don't see how anybody is having trouble imagining he can afford these flights easily from his basic pay?
    His personal finances are precisely that: personal. He's a bit odd alright but he's giving the government a regular walloping which is great.


  • Registered Users Posts: 88 ✭✭Forbearance


    I give him this, he is not part of a cohort in Government that has knowingly presided over the greatest transfer of wealth in Irish history since Oliver Cromwell. He is at least questioning, just what is happening.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,907 ✭✭✭✭Kristopherus


    Wallace is on what, 90k+ like every other TD? Flights to Italy are 100 Euro. I don't see how anybody is having trouble imagining he can afford these flights easily from his basic pay?
    His personal finances are precisely that: personal. He's a bit odd alright but he's giving the government a regular walloping which is great.

    Did he not make some arrangement with Revenue to pay off by deductions from his €90K salary?


  • Registered Users Posts: 88 ✭✭Forbearance


    Section 110 was last amended by the Finance Act 1996 as far as I can see. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt in that the Irish Statute Book isn't always the most up-to-date with amendments, so do you have evidence to support this claim you're making?


    I have set forth the evidence, doubting Thomas, these are not claims, but statement of fact. Do you wish to rebut the evidence ?


  • Registered Users Posts: 88 ✭✭Forbearance


    The silence is deafening!


  • Registered Users Posts: 20,397 ✭✭✭✭FreudianSlippers


    I have set forth the evidence, doubting Thomas, these are not claims, but statement of fact. Do you wish to rebut the evidence ?
    What are you rambling on about? :confused:


  • Registered Users Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    Mod:
    Up the standard guys!

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,723 ✭✭✭nice_guy80


    4% rent cap in the FG housing bill

    nice return for the investment property funds
    on top of the basement price they will pay for properties


  • Registered Users Posts: 88 ✭✭Forbearance


    What are you rambling on about? :confused:

    You wanted me to provide YOU with evidence to back up my claim, I gave it to you. I expect something more than the guff in your last post, this is a forum for serious debate as far as I am aware.


  • Registered Users Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    You wanted me to provide YOU with evidence to back up my claim, I gave it to you. I expect something more than the guff in your last post, this is a serious forum.

    Did you miss the mod post straight after the one you replied to? Up the standard thank you.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



  • Registered Users Posts: 88 ✭✭Forbearance


    K-9 wrote: »
    Did you miss the mod post straight after the one you replied to? Up the standard thank you.

    I believe I just did, another poster asked me to provide evidence to back up the claims in a previous post; I did. If you are challenged on an open forum and reply with the pertinent facts and evidence to prove your claim, I would expect a reply saying thank you or a rebuttal of my post. Hence, the term forum.

    Forum :- a meeting or medium where ideas and views on a particular issue can be exchanged.


  • Registered Users Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    Mod:Right, in simple terms, you and Freudian Slippers, knock it off, drop it, that means not calling posts guff or stuff like that.

    If you want to reply to this post, pm me, do not reply on thread. Thank you. That goes for everybody.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,370 ✭✭✭Phoebas


    Did he not make some arrangement with Revenue to pay off by deductions from his €90K salary?

    He did, but in the run up to the last election he said he was no longer going to pay Revenue.

    He was declared bankrupt today, but I don't know where Revenue now stand in getting any money back for the Irish taxpayer.


  • Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 1,331 ✭✭✭J.pilkington


    So Mick lost the war.

    http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/high-court/td-mick-wallace-found-bankrupt-in-the-high-court-1.2911438

    The only time he really got of his arse in all the time he has been in the dail earning tax payers money was in an act of self interest to tackle the company cerebus who had bought his loans from Ulster bank as he knew it was only a matter of time before they called in the money that he now owed them (just so everyone is clear they bought walaces loans well in advance of the Northern Ireland Nama issue which is seperate)

    Or was it mearly a battle he lost but he wins the outright war?

    Sure he'll be grand as he gets to keep his employees pension, the taxpayers vat and still gets to visit his Italian vineyard which now is in the hands of his brother (which I believe was exchanged for a "company debt"). All the while getting paid a handsome wage, accruing a nice big pension and paying consultency fees to his son for "research" and claiming his €40k per annum independent allowance(which he proudly claimed on day 1 of his dail tenure at a press release that he wasn't going to claim only to submit a claim on the sly a year later and even claiming back as much as he could!). I'm sure he'll be looking forward to the forthcoming World Cups and euros and will probably use dail speaking time to ask for time off.

    New politics, 'this mighty


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,749 ✭✭✭✭Inquitus


    So Mick lost the war.

    http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/high-court/td-mick-wallace-found-bankrupt-in-the-high-court-1.2911438

    The only time he really got of his arse in all the time he has been in the dail earning tax payers money was in an act of self interest to tackle the company cerebus who had bought his loans from Ulster bank as he knew it was only a matter of time before they called in the money that he now owed them (just so everyone is clear they bought walaces loans well in advance of the Northern Ireland Nama issue which is seperate)

    Or was it mearly a battle he lost but he wins the outright war?

    Sure he'll be grand as he gets to keep his employees pension, the taxpayers vat and still gets to visit his Italian vineyard which now is in the hands of his brother (which I believe was exchanged for a "company debt"). All the while getting paid a handsome wage, accruing a nice big pension and paying consultency fees to his son for "research" and claiming his €40k per annum independent allowance(which he proudly claimed on day 1 of his dail tenure at a press release that he wasn't going to claim only to submit a claim on the sly a year later and even claiming back as much as he could!). I'm sure he'll be looking forward to the forthcoming World Cups and euros and will probably use dail speaking time to ask for time off.

    New politics, 'this mighty

    Given he has personal guarantees on the loans, what's in scope for liquidation? his house, his car, any savings I presume? But he gets to keep his future salary, pensions, etc etc.?


  • Registered Users Posts: 88 ✭✭Forbearance


    Future earnings and assets gained in the future cannot be secured by creditors after a debtor is adjudicated bankrupt.


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  • Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 1,331 ✭✭✭J.pilkington


    Bumping this as it’s currently in front of the courts. Plenty of daming evidence from the liquidator about the working man ms hero TD. Seems to indicate malicious fraud of rent owing to the banks, this on top of the known theft of VAT (taxpayers money) and the theft of pensions (staffs money).

    Wallace trying to lie / waffle his way out of it but only causing more confusion.

    A barring from being a company director is both very serious and rare so really puts Wallace various acts of fraud into context.

    https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/liquidator-rejects-mick-wallaces-offer-of-consent-on-restriction-order-36253974.html


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