Letters of Recommendation

Ficheall

I can see the point of providing referee details, though it bothers me that potential employers don't make it clear whether they will contact referees before/after shortlisting/interviews, if at all. Ideally, I feel that referee details should be asked for after I've been shortlisted for interview, or at least the employer should not contact referees until after shortlisting. Most places don't seem to contact the referees prior to interview, which is fine.

However, this "submit x [original copies of] letters of recommendation as part of your application" really gets my goat. My referees have better things to be doing with their time than writing references for me for the myriad jobs I am applying unsuccessfully for - surely that could wait until after shortlisting/interview?

Is it acceptable to tell a potential employer to PFO and that you will send them recommendation letters if shortlisted?

Are any posters employers who like to place this extra awkward hurdle in potential employees' paths?

Stheno

What sort of jobs are you applying for that want this? Are they in Ireland?

Ficheall

Various academia jobs - teaching/research in the UK/US.

Stheno

Ficheall wrote: »

Various academia jobs - teaching/research in the UK/US.

Ah right, sorry have no idea.

fits

Any particular reason why you are limiting search to uk/ us?

No idea on the letters either. Never come across it.

Stheno

fits wrote: »

Any particular reason why you are limiting search to uk/ us?

No idea on the letters either. Never come across it.

I have, in that it's an American/UK academia thing, but no idea why they look for it.

I assume they are looking for academic references, but that's pure conjecture, hence why I said I'd no real advice to offer.

Ficheall

fits wrote: »

Any particular reason why you are limiting search to uk/ us?

No idea on the letters either. Never come across it.

I'm not - they're just the ones that I've noticed asking. Most UK ones don't (most take referee details and contact them after shortlisting/interview), except for the up-their-own-arse Oxbridge types which want references submitted along with the application. Since I probably wouldn't get the positions there anyway, I've just stopped applying for them (maybe that's their plan?), but when a ****ty community college in the US is asking for three letters of recommendation along with your application... it's a bit rich.

Sure, they're academic references, I suppose, but I don't see why the business of providing references should be any different.

davo10

Op of course you can tell them that you do not agree with his practice but of course you also won't get the job.

It really is up to the employer what criteria they use for checking references whether it be by letter in advance, phone call or letter after short listing. Perhaps they think it saves time if you send the letters with your application, as you know academia is a relatively small community and Heads of Depts tend to at least have heard of each other if not know each other. A simple phone call after the letter is received to the person who wrote it confirms its validity.

As the applicant you cannot dictate the selection criteria so either put up with it or only apply to the ones who in your learned a opinion, do it the way you want it to be done.

Ficheall

davo10 wrote: »

Perhaps they think it saves time if you send the letters with your application, as you know academia is a relatively small community and Heads of Depts tend to at least have heard of each other if not know each other.

I am 99% sure that not a single person in the maths dept in, say, this community college I'm looking at in the US, has ever heard of any of the mathematicians in Galway. If it was some particular small field of mathematics, then it's possible that the top researchers would have heard of other top researchers, yes, but even if they do happen to know each other - so what?

Obviously it is up to the institutions what methods they employ, and that going against that grain might hinder my chances of employment, and my first question was borne of exasperation, granted, but your post seems to suggest that my viewpoint on the letters of recommendation is unreasonable.

I've applied for, say, 20 jobs over the past couple of months - imagine if for every one of those positions, I had to ask at least one previous employer to write a letter for me. I get on reasonably well with my previous employers, but I can't imagine a couple of emails every week asking for references would improve our relationship.

Do potential employers read hundreds of (often generic and unreliable) letters of recommendation before shortlisting? I'm not sure that that would save much time at all, at all.

If you don't mind my asking, are you an employer who write or seeks references, davo10? Or a job-seeker, perhaps, who is in a similar reference-seeking boat?

Mrs OBumble

Get your referees to write ONE generic letter, headed up To Whom It May Concern.

Photocopy as required.

Problem solved.

Ficheall

Well, presumably to avoid the possibility that the reference letter mightn't be the same if it is sent via the candidate, these places tend to ask for emails sent directly from the referee, or original signed copies of the letters. Problem unsolved.