Speeding Penalty Disproportionate

noelma

Just got a speeding ticket in the post. Caught by a camera I presume.
109kh in a 100kh zone!
€80 plus 3 penalty points.
So that will probably be €200/€300 per year on insurance costs for three years.
Seems to me that this is unreasonable punishment for a fairly minor infringement!
Any opinions out there?

Stheno

Its the standard penalty.

Three points are unlikely to affect your insurance tbh

bazz26

If you were caught doing 109 kph then your speedometer was more than likely showing higher than that at the time of the offence. That would mean that your speedometer was showing you travelling at over 10% above the max speed limit on the road. No point in having punishments if they are not going to be a deterrent.

Unless you have already accumulated points already then 3 points will not change your insurance much. It's when you have 6 or more you need to start worrying.

ironclaw

We actually have really low fines and repercussions for speeding here. In some of the Scandinavian countries the fine is adjusted for your occupation so if you happen to earn large figures then your fine could be thousands. Elsewhere in the US you can be arrested on the roadside for even 10 to 15 mph over the limit, with a mandatory court appearance and huge fines. You could be doing 200km/h here and get €80 and 3 points with a very slim chance of their being any further repercussions.

Some of my notes from the US rallies:

California: $600 minimum for over 100mph (160km/h)
New York: 35 mph over the posted limit is 'reckless' and will get you $600 fine and potential jail time.
MA: $100 minimum plus $10 for each mph over the limit
New Jersey: 10 mph over the limit is considered 'racing' and the fine can be doubled.

draiochtanois

This post has been deleted.

Pkiernan

The real question is: Was doing 9kph more than you should have been worth the €80 and potential hike in insurance premium?

It probably wasn't.

ironclaw

draiochtanois wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Sam is considered a vehicle under the RTA and likely should have been yielding. Heartless and cold, but that's the reality. The drivers were not at fault here, unless they were breaking the speed limit.

We place far, far too much blame on drivers in these situation. Accidents happen, people drive recklessly, but the average Joe Soap on his way home that has a careless cyclist swerve into his path or the pedestrian too busy texting and they hit them, I actually feel far more sorry for the driver. Yes, drive with due care and attention, but we can't take the responsibility of every single other road user.

I've driven quick, far in excess of posted limits but I always did it alone or with someone who equally accepted the danger of doing so. There is a massive difference between hooning it on the motorway and acting the fool on the city streets, but that's never emphasised by the RSA etc. 'All speed is bad' etc

We share the the road but I don't feel we share the blame. Speed alone doesn't kill and we need to stop bubble wrapping people with this notion as I genuinely believe it's causing issues. People are terrified to proceed at a good pace in good conditions or petrified to change lanes, 'sure, what harm am I doing. I'm keeping the speed down so everyone gets home safe' Absolute nonsense.

Riskymove

draiochtanois wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

context is everything here

speeding in a built up area is different to a 100kph road

travelling at 109kph or 100kph would make little difference if something appeared out in front of you as in the example

there are stretches of the M50 where it is 120 and some where it is 100

Carawaystick

Riskymove wrote: »

there are stretches of the M50 where it is 120 and some where it is 100

and some where it's 80 and some where it's 50.

keithclancy

The Irish system is utterly stupid and divides people into two groups.

A. The ones that stick exactly to the limit regardless of the situation.
B. The ones that drive way over the limit as they may as well go 20 over and get value for money rather than get done for a few km over.

Graduated system would be much better, saying one guy a few km over is as dangerous as some person going 20-30 over is ridiculous.

CiniO

keithclancy wrote: »

The Irish system is utterly stupid and divides people into two groups.

A. The ones that stick exactly to the limit regardless of the situation.
B. The ones that drive way over the limit as they may as well go 20 over and get value for money rather than get done for a few km over.

Graduated system would be much better, saying one guy a few km over is as dangerous as some person going 20-30 over is ridiculous.

Exactly.
Sometimes I get caught on that as well.
Middle of the night - not a single soul around. Speed limit reduces from 100km/h to 50km/h. I slow down to 60km/h and keep going like that.
Then I think to myself - what the hell am I doing? When doing 60km/h i 50km/h limit I'd still get full penalty for speeding, so I might as well not slow down at all, and bomb down at 100km/h. Would make any difference.

Makes perfect sense to slow down like that anywhere else on the Continent, but not in Ireland.

CiniO

draiochtanois wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

1.2 seconds recation time is very bad.
Person with such bad reaction time, might be fairly dangerous on the road.
If you assume braking distance from 50km/h at 10metres, then it will be 14.4metres at 60km/h. With 0.5 seconds reaction time, this adds 7 metres to car doing 50km/h and 8.5m to car doing 60km/h.
So total stopping distance can be 17m for car doing 50km/h and 23m for car doing 60km/h.
In both cases, your child on a bike would be unharmed.

CiniO

ironclaw wrote: »

We actually have really low fines and repercussions for speeding here.

As per OP's example.
Can you show me any other country, where by speeding by 9km/h you are liable for €80 fine, 3 penalty points (1/4 of total limit for losing licence) and possible insurance hike?

I don't think so...
Everywhere else for such minor offence, penalty is much smaller.

Victor

ironclaw wrote: »

Sam is considered a vehicle under the RTA and likely should have been yielding. Heartless and cold, but that's the reality. The drivers were not at fault here, unless they were breaking the speed limit.

A court will hold adult road users to a much higher standard than child road users. http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/dublin-bus-loses-appeal-on-liability-in-head-injury-case-1.1722716

Graham

CiniO wrote: »

As per OP's example.
Can you show me any other country, where by speeding by 9km/h you are liable for €80 fine, 3 penalty points (1/4 of total limit for losing licence) and possible insurance hike?

I don't think so...
Everywhere else for such minor offence, penalty is much smaller.

In France the faster you are going the higher the fine. In built up areas, fines are set at €90 from just one kph over the limit up to 39kph over.

coolbeans

CiniO wrote: »

As per OP's example.
Can you show me any other country, where by speeding by 9km/h you are liable for €80 fine, 3 penalty points (1/4 of total limit for losing licence) and possible insurance hike?

I don't think so...
Everywhere else for such minor offence, penalty is much smaller.

This is just plain wrong

MarkAnthony

OP get on the case, get down to the DC and argue your case. Take a JC with you, don't be fobbed off by any solicitor that tells you you don't need a barrister.

Fight this injustice all the way to the US supreme court*!


*just in case the sarcasm wasn't obvious enough.

keithclancy

OSI wrote: »

UK. £100 (~€136), 3 points.

Slam. Dunk!

Also stupid.

Some person does 2km/h (adjusted) over the speed limit (in Ireland) 80 euro fine and points.

In NL 21 euro

Some person does 30km/h (adjusted) over the speed limit on the motorway in Ireland, 80 euro

In NL 277 euros

Basically since I don't have an Irish Driving license I can boot it the whole way to Dublin from Cork and worst case scenario it's 80 euros.

Hypothetically speaking of course,

uck51js9zml2yt

graduated fines in Slovakia
http://www.slovakia.com/travel/car/

I drive there regularly and when the police pull you in you dont give them any lip....they carry guns!!

Del2005

keithclancy wrote: »

The Irish system is utterly stupid and divides people into two groups.

A. The ones that stick exactly to the limit regardless of the situation.
B. The ones that drive way over the limit as they may as well go 20 over and get value for money rather than get done for a few km over.

Graduated system would be much better, saying one guy a few km over is as dangerous as some person going 20-30 over is ridiculous.

I find that the A group stick to 80km/h regardless of the actually posted limit being higher or lower.

The ironic thing is that very few Irish road users obey the 50km/h limit while steadfastly refusing to exceed 80km/h on roads with higher limits, yet exceeding the 50 limit is relatively much more dangerous than doing 100km/h on a national route.

coolbeans

Del2005 wrote: »

I find that the A group stick to 80km/h regardless of the actually posted limit being higher or lower.

The ironic thing is that very few Irish road users obey the 50km/h limit while steadfastly refusing to exceed 80km/h on roads with higher limits, yet exceeding the 50 limit is relatively much more dangerous than doing 100km/h on a national route.

Agreed, speeding in 30k built up areas is especially dangerous so I make a big conscious effort to avoid. On an empty motorway, I'm, shall we say, far less conscientious.