Theftstop.ie - IS FOR YOU - but why are you not using it

Chevy RV

Hello All,


This appears to be an ingenious idea dreamt up by the IFA and The Gardai to help prevent the theft of all your Assets like your Plant & Machinery, Washers, Saws, Quads etc. from your farm or premises and its Free at the minute.

My question is simple - why aren't you using the service ??


Regards,



Chevy RV

gctest50

how does it work if you sell your trailer after marking it ?

How does the metal stamping kit work?

To use your TheftStop Metal Stamping Kit, remove the relevant numbers and letters according to the Security ID you have been allocated.
Identify a hidden area on your machine or vehicle to mark. Secure the metal stamp safely (e.g. in a vice grip) and hit firmly with a hammer once. Move onto your next letter/number until your Security ID has been marked onto your machine.

Nettleman

gctest50 wrote: »

how does it work if you sell your trailer after marking it ?

theft and IFA- would never have put the two in the same sentence

Chevy RV

As i understand it, the Security ID number ( SID ) is like a car reg number and could be transferred to the new owners name even in a different area as he is the new owner. The item is then linked to the new owner on the database.

gctest50

It's not very well thought out - you should get say 30 numbers to play with

and make the numbers unique to the item and not the original owner

a bit like things like serial numbers and chassis numbers n stuff ?

gctest50

Just registered with a 10-minute-email and got a TheftStop Security ID

http://10minutemail.com

Welcome j811766@trbvm.com
Your TheftStop Security ID is LH100011
First Name:

test
Last Name:

test
Your County:

Louth

Mobile Phone Number:

0871234567

Email Address:

j811766 [@] trbvm.com

gctest50

why is it better than buying these kinda yokes for say 10 euro :

Metal Marking Stamps $6.99


http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/252049557014

and taking a few " hours off " to go around and stamp and photograph everything

Nekarsulm

I had thought of using the Eir-code , as it could be used in the same way.
But a potential downside would be, thieves could have a look at your trailer at the mart (or whatever) note the eircode and then use their sat-nav to go straight to the trailers "home" yard.
(When the sat nav companies support the system)

Kevhog1988

all that stuff is a load of bollix tbh, uncle had 3 mini diggers with trackers stolen last week in manchester. By the time the alarm was raised id say they were either in Ireland or on a ferry to africa. The only way to have anything around here is to have either security or a name that ppl wont **** with you.

Muckit

do them trackers not text you when the machine goes outside a certain area?

smokey-fitz

Realistically it's a stupid system. The incentive is good and welcome. But it's not going to be hard for a thief to scratch off the painted numbers. And even if he took off with the numbers still on it, do you honestly think anyone will even take notice? I doubt it. By the time you know it's missing, it will be long gone. The best security is good insurance.

emaherx

smokey-fitz wrote: »

Realistically it's a stupid system. The incentive is good and welcome. But it's not going to be hard for a thief to scratch off the painted numbers. And even if he took off with the numbers still on it, do you honestly think anyone will even take notice? I doubt it. By the time you know it's missing, it will be long gone. The best security is good insurance.

You are ment to mark the numbers some where hidden as well as using the stencils. Also trailer goes missing in the area and a trailer is spotted driving around with numbers half scratched off or sprayed over will stand out as suspicious.

Also it is a handy database where you record serials which could be useful for insurance claims even if items are never recovered.

I have registered and think it is a very good idea. Of course feckers will still come around and steal our stuff but every extra security measure is a good thing.

Chevy RV

I agree with you emaherx.

Claiming off insurance does not act as a deterrent like this system does if used properly. Such claims will increase future insurance premia.

This can also act an asset register to check the figures in your accounts are up to date and accurate for claiming capital allowances on your equipment.

darragh_haven

theemigrant wrote: »

all that stuff is a load of bollix tbh, uncle had 3 mini diggers with trackers stolen last week in manchester. By the time the alarm was raised id say they were either in Ireland or on a ferry to africa. The only way to have anything around here is to have either security or a name that ppl wont **** with you.

In Mississippi, with my brothers company they have trackers on all the machines. Costs $3.20 per machine per month. Over 600 machines tracked. They found 2 JD 9530 two states away after 10 months. Said he would have rather if they weren't found

have2flushtwice

will your insurance premium drop if you use this system?
once a trailer is gone it may as well be next count or next door in a shed if the doors are shut/ locked. once its in there the thief cn take all the time they want to repaint or do whatever they have to do. whats to stop them registering it to themselves

Bord na mona getting fleeced on a regular basis and nothing gets found. and they have a serious amount of gear - and that's common knowledge around the midlands.

Chevy RV

I didn't see anywhere about insurance companies offering reduced premiia for using Theftstop.ie but if it's service is used properly, then the IFA should be able to get a discount for its members who use it.
Theftstop.ie is NOT foolproof but then no system is 100% safe. It does however prevent the opportunist FCUKERS who rob most of the stuff

blue5000

Chevy RV wrote: »

Hello All,


This appears to be an ingenious idea dreamt up by the IFA and The Gardai to help prevent the theft of all your Assets like your Plant & Machinery, Washers, Saws, Quads etc. from your farm or premises and its Free at the minute.

My question is simple - why aren't you using the service ??


Regards,



Chevy RV

Nettleman wrote: »

theft and IFA- would never have put the two in the same sentence

THIS^^^^

emaherx wrote: »

You are meant to mark the numbers some where hidden as well as using the stencils. Also trailer goes missing in the area and a trailer is spotted driving around with numbers half scratched off or sprayed over will stand out as suspicious.

Also it is a handy database where you record serials which could be useful for insurance claims even if items are never recovered.

I have registered and think it is a very good idea. Of course feckers will still come around and steal our stuff but every extra security measure is a good thing.

It is a handy data base, for who exactly?? Hackers, thieves, or revenue, all equal in farmers' eyes if you ask me.
Hope this answers your question OP.

emaherx

have2flushtwice wrote: »

once a trailer is gone it may as well be next county or next door in a shed if the doors are shut/ locked. once its in there the thief can take all the time they want to repaint or do whatever they have to do. whats to stop them registering it to themselves.

Trailer or whatever is stolen may have markings removed, especially the large stencil markings, which is why you should have more discrete markings elsewhere just in case it does turn up with other stolen property, so you can identify it. Also if they happen to be spotted on the road with your markings or obviously obscured markings it may help to find it. Nobody is saying this is perfect and a complete solution. But if a thief is in our area sees my trailer which has a hitch lock, Teft stop markings, a camera pointed at it and is behind locked gates and sees my neighbors identical trailer with none of the above they may well go for the easier target.

It would be perfect if someone registers it themselves after you have reported it stolen, as this would mean that it is found and probably in good nick too don't you think.

The site also shows what has been stolen, so maybe it will be a good way for us to help each other look out for suspicious equipment moving around the country.

blue5000 wrote: »

It is a handy data base, for who exactly?? Hackers, thieves, or revenue, all equal in farmers' eyes if you ask me.
Hope this answers your question OP.

Holy crap lad, how do you sleep at night .
Hackers? there is very little personal information stored, no address for instance other than County. If you are very worried about that you could use a vague e-mail/ name when you sign up. Thieves? well unless they are hackers it should make life a little harder for them. Revenue??? Why are you afraid of Revenue. What if Revenue get details from Boards.ie to find out why you are so nervous of them??? Shh turn of your computer/phone and put on the tin foil hat.

atlantic mist

dont c how spraying number would prevent theft in any way, its handy for identifying if it ever gets found but chances of that are slim, neighbor had his trailer put up on done deal for sale and it sitting outside his house, he came across it himself, they couldn't delivery for a few days when he rang to purchase

Chevy RV

How could he prove that it was his trailer?

At least with Theftstop.ie and its painted or branding of your account number on your asset , you can at least prove you are the owner of the item.

atlantic mist

the picture on done deal had his reg number on it

can this theft spot branding not be painted over or scraped off

Chevy RV

The painting on of your account number cannot be painted over very easily without having a large smudge of odd looking paint on the item. This should make would be buyers suspicious.

If your ID number is put on with a proper asset stamping machine, it cannot be removed easily as it is indented or branded on to the item of equipment.

Mol88

Nothing a rub of a grinder wont fix.

Chevy RV

Would you buy it then?

emaherx

Chevy RV wrote: »

Would you buy it then?

I think all too often people would and do. The one thing that would really reduce rural crime is if people would stop buying second hand stuff from the back of vans or other dodgy sources.

gctest50

Chevy RV wrote: »

The painting on of your account number cannot be painted over very easily without having a large smudge of odd looking paint on the item. This should make would be buyers suspicious.

it's acrylic with no primer - loads of things shift it

Chevy RV wrote: »

If your ID number is put on with a proper asset stamping machine, it cannot be removed easily as it is indented or branded on to the item of equipment.

it's a set of number punches they are selling

emaherx

gctest50 wrote: »

it's acrylic with no primer - loads of things shift it


it's a set of number punches they are selling

Actually you don't need to purchase anything off them. And you can use any means you like to mark your equipment from engraving, stamping, any sort of paint or chemical means you like. The service is completely free.

Chevy RV

Hello All,

Judging by all the comments posted, a number of points seem to crop up:-

People seem unsure as to how the Marking and / or Etching /Branding actually works
People have little faith in it as a preventative measure for Theft
People think nobody cares about buying "Dodgy" looking stuff with Marks or Brands polished /Painted off
People are unsure about how the "Backoffice" or Database version of it works
People don't seem to realise that it can help prove their ownership if the item turns up anywhere in the country
Huge amounts of stolen stuff is recovered but sold at auction as the Gardai cannot trace the owner


ASSUMING the average farmer has €40,000 worth of Plant / Machinery /Equipment - Would you pay for a service where somebody is prepared to do a complete service for you?

By this i mean , register you on the Website, Paint and Engrave all your equipment , upload all this detail including photos on the site, give you an updated asset register for your accountant to check you are getting the correct capital allowances, then update for any changes you may have.


What do you think?

I would appreciate your opinions on this matter as i think it's a brilliant idea.


Chevy RV

J.O. Farmer

Chevy RV wrote: »

Hello All,

Judging by all the comments posted, a number of points seem to crop up:-

People seem unsure as to how the Marking and / or Etching /Branding actually works
People have little faith in it as a preventative measure for Theft
People think nobody cares about buying "Dodgy" looking stuff with Marks or Brands polished /Painted off
People are unsure about how the "Backoffice" or Database version of it works
People don't seem to realise that it can help prove their ownership if the item turns up anywhere in the country
Huge amounts of stolen stuff is recovered but sold at auction as the Gardai cannot trace the owner


ASSUMING the average farmer has €40,000 worth of Plant / Machinery /Equipment - Would you pay for a service where somebody is prepared to do a complete service for you?

By this i mean , register you on the Website, Paint and Engrave all your equipment , upload all this detail including photos on the site, give you an updated asset register for your accountant to check you are getting the correct capital allowances, then update for any changes you may have.


What do you think?

I would appreciate your opinions on this matter as i think it's a brilliant idea.


Chevy RV

In the first part of the post you pointed out all the reasons people are not confident in the theftstop service.
you're proposed business model is to do the work required for the service but nowhere have I seen the work involved as the reason for not using the service.
while it's a good idea in theory I don't think it'll be a viable business as your market will be too small. most people interested in using the theftstop service will put the number on themselves. farmers tend to be capable enough at that kind of work.

Chevy RV

Thanks for your reply JO Farmer.

There is a fair bit of work attached from registering with the site, to buying the necessary stencils and punches , to photgraphing all the equipment and then finally inputting all this information onto the website.

I am definitely not saying that farmers cannot do this all themselves but why aren't they is my question?

Could it be other factors like :-

• Lack of internet access or inability to use it well enough
• The Stencils are pretty poor looking sets and you would need multiple sets
• The Punches are not really practicable as ones number is 7 digits long -noise or injury to fingers
• The service has not been launched very well by the IFA

Regards,


Chevy RV

emaherx

Chevy RV wrote: »

Thanks for your reply JO Farmer.


Could it be other factors like :-

• Lack of internet access or inability to use it well enough
• The Stencils are pretty poor looking sets and you would need multiple sets
• The Punches are not really practicable as ones number is 7 digits long -noise or injury to fingers
• The service has not been launched very well by the IFA

Chevy RV

Lack of internet or inability to use, I doubt this is a big issue doesn't require much bandwidth or skills, most farmers will either have enough internet skills or at least someone nearby who does.

Stencils are very poor, you would be better off making your own. (there is no requirement to purchase these or anything else from the site.)

As for the punches, most farmers I'm sure are well enough trained to use a hammer and punch without hurting themselves.

It has not been very well launched this could be part of the problem.

Also from reading the negative feedback here people just are not interested/ have no faith that it will be any help, with some even suggesting that gangs of trailer stealing hackers may use it against them.:D

Personally I'm for it, and don't think its that much work to do. Can't say I have everything marked, photographed and recorded yet. But you start off with the most likely/valuable targets and record everything else over time.

Chevy RV

emaherx wrote: »

Lack of internet or inability to use, I doubt this is a big issue doesn't require much bandwidth or skills, most farmers will either have enough internet skills or at least someone nearby who does.

Stencils are very poor, you would be better off making your own. (there is no requirement to purchase these or anything else from the site.)

As for the punches, most farmers I'm sure are well enough trained to use a hammer and punch without hurting themselves.

It has not been very well launched this could be part of the problem.

Also from reading the negative feedback here people just are not interested/ have no faith that it will be any help, with some even suggesting that gangs of trailer stealing hackers may use it against them.:D

Personally I'm for it, and don't think its that much work to do. Can't say I have everything marked, photographed and recorded yet. But you start off with the most likely/valuable targets and record everything else over time.

Thanks for your detailed reply emaherx

However, i would think that internet Access is an issue in Rural Ireland as it is around me here in Tipperary. Even if they have access, are people going to get help from the wives or kids if they are unfamiliar with it?

The materials offered can be made up but will people bother?

Like you say in your last part, it is time consuming and will take time to complete.

My question is would it be a service that farmers might buy like hedgecutting or hoof pairing for instance where somebody comes in and does everything for them in one fell swoop?

Regards,


Chevy RV

emaherx

Chevy RV wrote: »

Thanks for your detailed reply emaherx
However, i would think that internet Access is an issue in Rural Ireland as it is around me here in Tipperary. Even if they have access, are people going to get help from the wives or kids if they are unfamiliar with it?
Chevy RV

There is internet everywhere in Ireland in some form . Decent Bandwidth might be another issue, but not required for this service. You claim to have no internet where you are, but you are using boards.ie. I also live in an area with poor broadband coverage.

Chevy RV wrote: »

My question is would it be a service that farmers might buy like hedgecutting or hoof pairing for instance where somebody comes in and does everything for them in one fell swoop?
Chevy RV

I think currently they can't even give this service away for free and you want to resell it . Perhaps if the service really took off and there is a notable and recorded/proven improvement to rural crime rates that can be directly attributed to this service then you could consider this. But at the moment I can't see you having much of a market. But I'm definitely not an expert in this area and this is just my opinion.

gctest50

.


credit to :

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=97930788&postcount=902

.

Chevy RV

Thanks for the posts lads - much appreciated.

I'm on my Third service provider and still have very poor quality Broadband which is non existent within 1 mile of here and we supposedly live in the Golden Vale:D


emaherx - What i was trying to say was if the service was packaged / presented and executed properly - would it be a service that some farmers may be interested in buying?

gctest50 - i'm not exactly sure what the aim / message of your post is there boss!


Regards,


Chevy RV

J.O. Farmer

Chevy RV wrote: »

gctest50 - i'm not exactly sure what the aim / message of your post is there boss!


Regards,


Chevy RV

I think you got what gctest50 is saying.

I think the point is that anyone having you coming in looking at machinery valuing it and documenting the location of security codes would have to trust you are not going to use it for less honorable uses.

Chevy RV

emaherx - What i was trying to say was if the service was packaged / presented and executed properly - would it be a service that some farmers may be interested in buying?

J.O Farmer - I think the point is that anyone having you coming in looking at machinery valuing it and documenting the location of security codes would have to trust you are not going to use it for less honorable uses.


This would all be part of how such a service would be packaged / presented with full IFA & Garda endorsement.

Would such a service have a demand do you think for it?

Regards,


Chevy RV

J.O. Farmer

Chevy RV wrote: »

emaherx - What i was trying to say was if the service was packaged / presented and executed properly - would it be a service that some farmers may be interested in buying?

J.O Farmer - I think the point is that anyone having you coming in looking at machinery valuing it and documenting the location of security codes would have to trust you are not going to use it for less honorable uses.


This would all be part of how such a service would be packaged / presented with full IFA & Garda endorsement.

Would such a service have a demand do you think for it?

Regards,


Chevy RV

Yeah when I said you I obviously meant anybody and not just you personally. Some kind of endorsement of a service would be useful in allaying fears in that regard.
I'm not sure that the demand is there at the moment as the rate of detection of these crimes is low so unless aiding insurance claims it's an added cost with little benefit.
It's a good idea in theory and maybe marketing and improved garda resources to deal with rural crime and maybe having insurance companies involved might help.
If you had an insurance partner which accepted your valuation and would cover theft it may be an option but I don't see the market there as things stand.

Chevy RV

Thanks for the replies lads - keep em coming!

J.O. Farmer wrote: »

Yeah when I said you I obviously meant anybody and not just you personally. Some kind of endorsement of a service would be useful in allaying fears in that regard.
I'm not sure that the demand is there at the moment as the rate of detection of these crimes is low so unless aiding insurance claims it's an added cost with little benefit.
It's a good idea in theory and maybe marketing and improved garda resources to deal with rural crime and maybe having insurance companies involved might help.
If you had an insurance partner which accepted your valuation and would cover theft it may be an option but I don't see the market there as things stand.

I think endorsement is essential for credibility purposes.

Is the demand not there because the IFA has made a Horlix of rolling out the service?

As for insurance, everyone wants to minimise any claims on their policy and this should help somewhat as a preventative measure. It may be possible they would give reductions like for alarms and immobilisers years ago on cars i.e. extra preventative measures.

Apparently on the Crimewatch programme they did on this, none of the stuff that was marked for the programme was ever stolen - coincedence or what?

I am trying to establish if a proper service with a proper asset marking tool used and the website being full updated with a farmers details would be a viable proposition?

Regards,


Chevy RV

Boaty

I see several issues
The market you are catering for isn't that big, I would imagine, I'm thinking your only market is farmers in the 60+ range, who have no idea about technology.
Its possible you would be classed as a data controller, so theres possibly costs associated with that, ie, keeping information secure(while you hold it)

You won't be endorsed by AGS, so you may as well be a traveling salesman.