Uncertainty and Religion

manyoung

Hi. I am a 20 year old man. This is the second time I have created a religion based thread in this forum. I am a Catholic (Cafeteria Catholic at best) and the first time I questioned my faith and religion in general was in May of this year. I should also mention that I suffer form anxiety and OCD and my mood has been quite low.

I saw a new article relating to the marriage referendum in May of this year.
and thought it was a very conservative view. I thought to myself: "Do many Catholics have these views?". I mistakenly entered a right wing Catholic forum and it was there I learned about the concept of mortal/venial sin and this "all or nothing" attitude. This website has scarred me to some extent and how gone on it since.

I guess my issue is this: I have noticed something. Not everyone believes in the same things. I mean lets take Catholicism for example. You are going to have conservatives who have the black and white thinking and the liberals (myself) who have different ideas. The meaning of life with Gay Byrne has also showed me the diversity of views. Some people believe in God, others don't. Some believe in Hell, others do not.

I don't know how to stop thinking about this, or even reconcile this. Those more devoted Catholics make me feel that it is indeed a "believe it all or get out" situation. If I believe in certain ideas that are wrong or don't think that certain things are wrong then am I going to Hell? There was a period in May when I couldn't get out of bed due to a fear of mortal sin/Hell.

Also what about the diversity of beliefs in Christianity? I cannot subscribe to this view that Protestants are going to Hell, if there is one. I mean what is wrong with confessing directly to God rather than a priest? Why is sex (in certain circumstances) and Homosexuality viewed as "evil". There are so many diversities of ideas and beliefs in the world and in the Catholic Church even. I cannot see how the "all or nothing" viewpoint is healthy, but at least there is a certainty in it. If you believe in everything the Church teaches and live accordingly, you will avoid Hell, if there is one.

Sorry if this is long and makes no sense, I just can't put this to rest. I could use some advice please. Thanks.


NOTE: I'd just like to point out that I have nothing against people who believe in everything that the Church teaches or perhaps has conservative views. It's perhaps just that the people and their attitude towards people with different views on that site made me insecure. Also I don't intend this thread to be about bashing religion or anything, I just need some advice.

LeinsterDub

manyoung wrote: »

Hi. I am a 20 year old man. This is the second time I have created a religion based thread in this forum. I am a Catholic (Cafeteria Catholic at best) and the first time I questioned my faith and religion in general was in May of this year. I should also mention that I suffer form anxiety and OCD and my mood has been quite low.

I saw a new article relating to the marriage referendum in May of this year.
and thought it was a very conservative view. I thought to myself: "Do many Catholics have these views?". I mistakenly entered a right wing Catholic forum and it was there I learned about the concept of mortal/venial sin and this "all or nothing" attitude. This website has scarred me to some extent and how gone on it since.

I guess my issue is this: I have noticed something. Not everyone believes in the same things. I mean lets take Catholicism for example. You are going to have conservatives who have the black and white thinking and the liberals (myself) who have different ideas. The meaning of life with Gay Byrne has also showed me the diversity of views. Some people believe in God, others don't. Some believe in Hell, others do not.

I don't know how to stop thinking about this, or even reconcile this. Those more devoted Catholics make me feel that it is indeed a "believe it all or get out" situation. If I believe in certain ideas that are wrong or don't think that certain things are wrong then am I going to Hell? There was a period in May when I couldn't get out of bed due to a fear of mortal sin/Hell.

Also what about the diversity of beliefs in Christianity? I cannot subscribe to this view that Protestants are going to Hell, if there is one. I mean what is wrong with connfessing directly to God rather than a priest. Why is sex (in certain circumstances) and Homosexuality viewed as "evil". There are so many diversities of ideas and beliefs in the world and in the Catholic Church even. I cannot see how the "all or nothing" viewpoint is healthy, but at least there is a certainity in it. If you believe in everything the Church teaches and live accordingly, you will avoid Hell, if there is one.

Sorry if this is long and makes no sense, I just can't put this to rest. I could use some advice please. Thanks.

If it keeps you happy then be a la carte. It's all made up nonsense anyway

manyoung

LeinsterDub wrote: »

If it keeps you happy then be a la carte. It's all made up nonsense anyway

Being a la carte is what I have always been and seems healthy to me. But after viewing that site I feel insecure. Like I see other a la carte Catholics and (I'm assuming) they seem happy the way they are. I think the reason I am so anxious about this is the afterlife. What if I pick the wrong views to believe and end up in Hell?

R.D. aka MR.D

manyoung wrote: »

There was a period in May when I couldn't get out of bed due to a fear of mortal sin/Hell.

To be honest,becoming this obsessed by religion or religious ideas might be a symptom of another problem. Have you thought about seeking help from a mental health professional and when I say professional I mean professional. A medical professional. People can be very vulnerable to counselling offered by religious organisations etc.

Not being able to get out of bed due to a fear of mortal sin is a little bit different than even very devout catholics. It might be a good idea to talk to a professional.

Calibos

I'm an atheist and the way I look at it is that if a God exists he A. looks into my soul and deeds and see's I was a good person and bestows an afterlife upon me or B. he does indeed bar me for some bull**** reason. If A. then Whoopee!! IF B. then Whoopee!! I can feel morally superior to the creator of the bloody universe and I'll take my goddamn punishment....and if Catholic Doctrine is anything to go on, that punishment is non existent oblivion...which as an atheist is what I believe comes after life anyway and which I've already come to terms with seeing as its the same state I was in for the 14 billion years of the universes existence up till the point I was concieved. Whats to be afraid of? As some great philosopher once said, "When I am, Death is not. When Death is, I am not."

eviltwin

manyoung wrote: »

Being a la carte is what I have always been and seems healthy to me. But after viewing that site I feel insecure. Like I see other a la carte Catholics and (I'm assuming) they seem happy the way they are. I think the reason I am so anxious about this is the afterlife. What if I pick the wrong views to believe and end up in Hell?

That website you saw just represents a small section of religious people. Who is to say they are right? Religion evolves, when I was young there was no way a girl could be an alter server for example and we were being taught about limbo. When my parents were young women had to cover their heads in church and it was forbidden for a Catholic to attend a protestant service. All that's changed. Even the current pope has expressed views towards gay people that are very compassionate, the church sanctions the use of condoms in Africa to prevent Aids etc

I would look at why you honed in on these extreme beliefs as opposed to the more liberal ones. I do think you need to see someone professional to discuss this and your wider issues.

I don't believe in anything myself but I think if a God existed he or she would be compassionate and fair. I don't believe you'll earn a place in heaven by being judgemental towards people who don't fit a narrow box. The world is made up of all sorts of people, embrace the diversity. It's a good thing.

Rubberchikken

i don't give any thought any more to religion.
not that i gave it great thought, just went with what i was reared with, but those days are gone.

i live my life as best i can. i try to be the best person i can be. i don't judge others, and accept that while others might judge me i'm not going to spend any time worrying about them.

if you find that you're thinking too much about the issues you raised in your opening post, then maybe having a chat with a gp might help.
it's great to be aware of things at 20 but you don't want to focus on just one thing. enjoy your life. good luck

sashafierce

This post has been deleted.

meeeeh

OP I don't think your religious beliefs (or lack of them or whatever) are the problem. It's how they affect you. It's like you found a subject you can be anxious about and you are trying very hard to be anxious about.

I might not agree with what people believe in but most people I know seem comfortable with what they believe in. And those who are not is because of their own doubts not because of what others think. It just seems to me that religion is a convenient subject for you to worry about but if wouldn't be for religion it would be something else. I agree with one of previous posters that talking to medical professional would be beneficial.

Ursus Horribilis

Of course that website scarred you. It's going against the set of beliefs you'd formed and has outlined dire consequences if you don't stick to their beliefs.

What you must understand about any religion is that they're man made. The rules were created by humans and you've got to look at why they came to be. I don't agree with the Catholic church's teachings on premarital sex, divorce or contraception but I understand exactly why they exist. They're a legacy of times past and are forms of social engineering. If you think about it, there was no reliable contraception so the only way to stop there being unwanted pregnancies was to make it a sin. Then when a woman married they wanted loads of catholic babies so they'd never want contraception there. They also didn't want families breaking up so no divorce. Once these sorts of beliefs take hold it's very hard to shift them.

It's always healthy to question why version beliefs and teachings came about and who's saying them. Religious texts can be twisted any which way to suit agendas. Rules are man made and don't you ever forget that. You've also got to question whose teachings the church is basing their beliefs on. In short, things aren't as simple as the people who set up this website would have you believe. You've also got to understand that for some people the world is a very simple, black and white place. An example of this is the gun lobby in the USA. For them, the world is a better place if everyone has a gun and they cannot see that it's a problem.

Anyway I think the advice given earlier is the best. I think you need to talk to a professional about this.

HalloweenJack

OP, one thing I'd suggest is copy and paste your post and put in both the Christianity forum and the Atheist and Agnostic forum and gauge the replies that you get.

Every reply you're going to get is based on people's own beliefs, religion is a very subjective thing, but I'd suggest doing that, looking through the replies and then use what makes the most sense to you to guide yourself.

Dughorm

I agree with the other posters about seeking medical advice or counselling. It's one thing to be interested in following a religion or learning about religions in general but the obsession you have described is an indicator of some other issue.

By the way some of the viewpoints you described are not compatible with Catholicism, conservative or otherwise, so at least look at books/ websites explaining what they actually do believe, rather than distortions of it.

Hemerodrome

HalloweenJack wrote: »

OP, one thing I'd suggest is copy and paste your post and put in both the Christianity forum and the Atheist and Agnostic forum and gauge the replies that you get.

Every reply you're going to get is based on people's own beliefs, religion is a very subjective thing, but I'd suggest doing that, looking through the replies and then use what makes the most sense to you to guide yourself.

This is a terrible, terrible idea. This sort of thing is what brought the OP to his current state of thinking and staying well away from those forums will benefit him far more, along with proper medical support for his anxiety issues.

Taltos

Mod Note
Posting your thread in more than one forum is considered spamming and will result in a siteban.

manyoung

HalloweenJack wrote: »

OP, one thing I'd suggest is copy and paste your post and put in both the Christianity forum and the Atheist and Agnostic forum and gauge the replies that you get.

Every reply you're going to get is based on people's own beliefs, religion is a very subjective thing, but I'd suggest doing that, looking through the replies and then use what makes the most sense to you to guide yourself.

I appreciate that you mean well, but I agree with Hemerodrome, this would just be a going a step backwards instead of forwards. Thanks anyway though.

manyoung

Odus fell down wrote: »

Of course that website scarred you. It's going against the set of beliefs you'd formed and has outlined dire consequences if you don't stick to their beliefs.

What you must understand about any religion is that they're man made. The rules were created by humans and you've got to look at why they came to be. I don't agree with the Catholic church's teachings on premarital sex, divorce or contraception but I understand exactly why they exist. They're a legacy of times past and are forms of social engineering. If you think about it, there was no reliable contraception so the only way to stop there being unwanted pregnancies was to make it a sin. Then when a woman married they wanted loads of catholic babies so they'd never want contraception there. They also didn't want families breaking up so no divorce. Once these sorts of beliefs take hold it's very hard to shift them.

It's always healthy to question why version beliefs and teachings came about and who's saying them. Religious texts can be twisted any which way to suit agendas. Rules are man made and don't you ever forget that. You've also got to question whose teachings the church is basing their beliefs on. In short, things aren't as simple as the people who set up this website would have you believe. You've also got to understand that for some people the world is a very simple, black and white place. An example of this is the gun lobby in the USA. For them, the world is a better place if everyone has a gun and they cannot see that it's a problem.

Anyway I think the advice given earlier is the best. I think you need to talk to a professional about this.

I'm not 100% sure I accept the man made idea. I mean I do think you are right to an extent, but surely rather than for social reasons, the Church is making these rules from the Bible (or at least their interpretation)? That being said I don't really want to get into a discussion about that.

With regards to seeing a professional, I'm seeing a CBT therapist at the moment and is going good. I have brought my concerns to my previous therapist a month a go and I stayed away from the sites. Unfortuately, my anxiousness was triggered about bumping into a couple of Mormons on the street. I may bring this up again and get some relief. Thanks.

manyoung

R.D. aka MR.D wrote: »

To be honest,becoming this obsessed by religion or religious ideas might be a symptom of another problem. Have you thought about seeking help from a mental health professional and when I say professional I mean professional. A medical professional. People can be very vulnerable to counselling offered by religious organisations etc.

Not being able to get out of bed due to a fear of mortal sin is a little bit different than even very devout catholics. It might be a good idea to talk to a professional.

I have gotten over this period of being terrified by the concept of mortal sin and Hell. I remember laying in bed until noon and just googling about it on Reddit and then reading about Dante and all that. I just felt horrible. But I somehow just got past it and I feel much more skeptical towards different doctrines and am more questioning.

I am seeing a CBT therapist at the moment and will probably bring it up again. Thanks.

ivytwine

manyoung wrote: »

I'm not 100% sure I accept the man made idea. I mean I do think you are right to an extent, but surely rather than for social reasons, the Church is making these rules from the Bible (or at least their interpretation)? That being said I don't really want to get into a discussion about that.

With regards to seeing a professional, I'm seeing a CBT therapist at the moment and is going good. I have brought my concerns to my previous therapist a month a go and I stayed away from the sites. Unfortuately, my anxiousness was triggered about bumping into a couple of Mormons on the street. I may bring this up again and get some relief. Thanks.

OP the bible is also man made. I'm not at all religious. I went through the questioning phrase as a young teenager and I'm very comfortable with my lack of belief now.

I've long had a fascination with pagan cultures and different religions- even though I'm not religious I find reading about anything from Islam to ancient aboriginal beliefs so interesting. I guess maybe the one thing I've gotten from all this is that any belief system- heck even Marxism has its prophecy about the end of capitalism- is humanity's attempt to explain the world. Humans absolutely create gods, not the other way around (in my opinion). I studied one particular module in college which hammered this message home to me.

i have some reading recommendations around this but I realise this may not be the best thing for you. But absolutely bring this up with your therapist.

I still get anxious about death, but there's literally nothing I can do about it- and it's not going to stop me from living while I can! Don't let this do the same to you.

Hemerodrome

I'm glad to hear you're working on the CBT and I'd encourage you to stick at it, because your self-awareness and intelligence is obvious from your last few posts and offers you a great platform to get to grips with this. Best of luck.

Ursus Horribilis

manyoung wrote: »

I'm not 100% sure I accept the man made idea. I mean I do think you are right to an extent, but surely rather than for social reasons, the Church is making these rules from the Bible (or at least their interpretation)? That being said I don't really want to get into a discussion about that.

Fair enough but I'll just add this: Maybe the precursors of those rules are in the bible because they were the social norms at the time. God didn't pick up a pen and write all those books in the old and new testaments. They were written by human beings who will have been influenced by the times they lived in as much as they were by God. It's also worth remembering that the bible also has conflicting messages within its pages and many things that never became mainstream. For example, one book suggests that if a woman becomes a widow, her brother in law must marry her. Another book in the bible says that the brother in law must not marry his dead brothers wife. What I'm trying to say in a roundabout way is that the bible needs to be taken with a grain of salt. You've got a facile view of the bible and its teachings and it's feeding into your anxiety. Even bible scholars don't take everything that's in it literally. It's something you don't know enough about but I strongly advice you not to investigate this further. I also think you need to steer clear of all religious websites because they're making you very anxious and perhaps a little ill.

With regards to seeing a professional, I'm seeing a CBT therapist at the moment and is going good. I have brought my concerns to my previous therapist a month a go and I stayed away from the sites. Unfortunately, my anxiousness was triggered about bumping into a couple of Mormons on the street. I may bring this up again and get some relief. Thanks.

You definitely need to bring this up. Getting this anxious over some Mormons is not normal or healthy. You can't stop them, or Jehovah's Witnesses or anyone else coming up to you on the street or to your doorstep. They're a part of life and most people are secure enough to tell them they're not interested and move on without giving it a second thought. You're exactly the sort of person certain religions will prey upon because they sense you're vulnerable.

Shrap

Worth remembering OP, that anyone who stops you on the street or doorsteps you with the purpose of selling their version of religion to you is in the business of making you insecure in your own beliefs. Walk away, or tell them to take a hike.