New drug driving laws so Unfair and ill-thought out.

HandoLogan

I am absolutely fuming over this. Looks like relaxing after a hard stressful day with a joint or two will be hindered by the obtuse minded idiots we have elected. There is a legal limit for alcohol, so why is there not a limit to the amount of THC that may be in your system.

I am a regular visitor to Amsterdam for business reasons, where everyone knows it's legal to smoke Marijuana, and when I am there I DO partake. Don't get me wrong here, I am NOT a teenage stoner, I am a married man in my mid 40's who believes it is a lot healthier, physically and mentally to relax with a Joint, rather then cans of beer, spirits or even wine.

Am I the only one who finds this to be a violation that has more to do with victimising those people who aren't uptight about a naturally growing plant that has amazing healing qualities.

I am speechless that they are able to get away with this.

Certainly, if your driving is impaired and you are a danger to yourself and others, because you have had one joint to many, then you should not be driving and you deserve to be prosecuted. But fining and/or imprisoning someone because they have a minute traces of the marijuana in their system even up to two or three weeks later is totally regressive, and a prime example of "Backward Ireland strikes again".

Another thing I have to mention here is the fact that the "Saliva testing" for traces of Marijuana are notoriously unreliable, and are not relied upon in the USA and other countries because of this. This will lead to some angry roadside scenes.

What is the cut-off point for the drug tests? In most countries it is a concentration below 50ng./ml. No mention of this of course
I was wondering if a person just flat out refused to give a saliva test stating "That they are notoriously unreliable" (This can be proven) and then refused to provide a urine and blood sample. What would be the outcome? Any legally savvy person out there please get back to me on this issue.

Another aspect of this whole affair that has to be mentioned is the Gardaí, and the potential for victimisation of individuals who the Gardaí consider to potential "Users" based on their appearance, age, etc.

God help anyone who is seen driving a car sporting dreadlocks.

Personally I think this is just another Fine Gael money generating scheme that has the potential to rake in massive amounts of money from those who are unfortunate enough o be "Selected" by the Gardaí for testing. Who the hell wants to spend up to six months in prison ?

What ever the reasons behind this outrageous infringement you can be assured it has NOTHING to do with public safety, and more to do with forcing the Irish people further into Debt slavery, by design.

The massive fine and ban associated with this will effectively ruin lives, and for what? having minute traces of THC in your system, that in NO WAY impairs your ability to drive safely.

This legislation is ill-thought out, and seems to be a knee jerk reaction to remarkably similar laws introduced in England and Wales earlier this year. One would be forgiven for thinking that the British home office or "The Office of Irish Affairs" have more power over this country and it's laws than we would like to admit.

It's currently against the law to have possession of cannabis. Wouldn't make much sense to have a legal limit for an illegal drug surely?

Fred Swanson

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They have very similar laws in countries where marijuana is legal. Simply put, your desire to get high and to subsequently drive does not override the potential harm caused if you are impaired while driving. You are completely incapable of determining whether or not you are impaired after the consumption of marijuana (or any other substance) and it is perfectly reasonable to regulate this.

HandoLogan

Deleted User wrote: »

You are completely incapable of determining whether or not you are impaired after the consumption of marijuana (or any other substance) and it is perfectly reasonable to regulate this.

My argument here is the fact that they, will ban and fine even if you have a minute amount of THC in your system that DOES NOT in any way impair your driving.

I'm sure that if you took a saliva sample from a person two days after they consumed alcohol you will find small traces of it still in their system, this amount will in no way impair their driving, and therefore is of little consequence.

The same can be said for a tiny amount of THC left in the body, lets say one or two weeks after consumption, it in NO WAY impairs your ability to drive a vehicle so therefore should NOT be illegal.

What next? The Gardai stopping people in the street because they may look like they partake, to give them a saliva sample, and if a minute amount of THC is discovered then they are arrested and prosecuted.

Why not just lay in wait for all those people who come back from a short break in Amsterdam at the various airports. How unfair would that be?

Even if you do not smoke cannabis and you are around someone who does, i.e someone with MS, someone suffering from cancer, and you ingest passively then you are risking a life changing conviction being brought against you.

This has not been thought out properly, and should have been planned specifically for the society it was designed for.

Give this Government an inch and they will take a mile.

godtabh

HandoLogan wrote: »

My argument here is the fact that they, will ban and fine even if you have a minute amount of THC in your system that DOES NOT in any way impair your driving.

Given that its an illegal substance here its very reasonable.

Fred Swanson

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Flatzie_poo

HandoLogan wrote: »

This has not been thought out properly and should have designed specifically for the society it was designed for. OP

That's more like it.

MarkR

I do think the way they've done it is quite daft, if that is the case. If it can show up in your system from two weeks ago, and it can be proven that it can't possibly be hindering performance at that stage, there will have to be challenges made.

If you're signs of alcohol damage to your liver from ages past, then if it was level you'd be done for that too.

Wait and see what happens I suppose.

Little CuChulainn

Can the OP clarify which law this rant is about?

HandoLogan

It is ludicrous. It is one step away from giving the Gardaí powers to approach a person they suspect of being a cannabis smoker in the street, to demand they take a saliva test to see if they have consumed an illegal substance and if any traces are found to be present, then an on the spot fine and/or arrest is made.

I'm telling you people, wait for it. If you think the present Government aren't capable of this kind of idiocy, then think again.

HandoLogan

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

Can the OP clarify which law this rant is about?

Seriously... Read a newspaper sometime. :cool:

Arbiter of Good Taste

People seem to think it's their God given right to be in control of a piece of machinery that could potentially kill themselves and others and they want to do so with drugs in their system.

Selfish and pathetic really

HandoLogan

Flatzie_poo wrote: »

That's more like it.

Let me guess... Never have, and never will. This is not just about a ludicrous law. it's about the a failed government who are so out of touch with the people that have elected them, they have no idea how many lives this will ruin. I suspect they really couldn't care less, once the money comes rolling in.

Emmo-m-

The "just because its illegal here" argument doesn't really apply. By the same logic , if I fly to amsterdam on a friday morning , smoke over there where it is legal. Do not smoke the rest of the weekend , fly home , go to work mon-fri , get pulled on the friday a week later or even longer depending on the person , get tested and banned/fined.

How are they going to prove that your driving is impaired from a joint you may have smoked 2 weeks ago? In a country where it's legal for the sake of this example.

The logic of just because it's in your system , doesn't matter how little your impaired is ridiculous.

Little CuChulainn

HandoLogan wrote: »

Seriously... Read a newspaper sometime. :cool:

I prefer to get my news online thanks. If you could just link the law or article you are referring to that'd be great.

Valetta

HandoLogan wrote: »

Let me guess... Never have, and never will. This is not just about a ludicrous law. it's about the a failed government who are so out of touch with the people that have elected them, they have no idea how many lives this will ruin. I suspect they really couldn't care less, once the money comes rolling in.

Poof!

There goes any small bit of credibility your argument may have had.

ThisRegard

Is your life genuinely ruined because it's illegal to drive while stoned on hash?

If so, marijuana has a bigger psychological affect than some people give it credit for.

dr.fuzzenstein

ThisRegard wrote: »

Is your life genuinely ruined because it's illegal to drive while stoned on hash?

If so, marijuana has a bigger psychological affect than some people give it credit for.

I think it's more about the fact that tests will show up positive days and weeks after having smoked something, even though the effects have long since worn off. So the driver would be perfectly alright to drive, he just carries a marker.

HandoLogan

ThisRegard wrote: »

Is your life genuinely ruined because it's illegal to drive while stoned on hash?

If so, marijuana has a bigger psychological affect than some people give it credit for.

No... what will ruin lives is the 5000 euro fine and the ban that follows. and for what, have a trace amount in your system, that DOES NOT in any way impair your driving.

Seriously.. try and get your head around that fact.

CSSE09

From the Irish times
"Motorists will be required to go through the initial test, a saliva test, in the aftermath of an accident, under the new law. Positive indications will be followed up by blood test to confirm the presence of drugs."

Skimming through Google it says cannabis can be detected in a blood test anything from 12 up to 24 hours later and only if you're a heavy user would it show up for days. So they do use more than just the one test and it'll be a requirement if there's an accident, hardly unfair.

Fred Swanson

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gctest50

HandoLogan wrote: »

No... what will ruin lives is the 5000 euro fine and the ban that follows. and for what, have a trace amount in your system, that DOES NOT in any way impair your driving.

Seriously.. try and get your head around that fact.

Just putting it IN CAPITALS doesn't make it a fact

any proof ?

It is inadvisable to try and predict effects based on blood THC concentrations alone, and currently impossible to predict specific effects based on THC-COOH concentrations. It is possible for a person to be affected by marijuana use with concentrations of THC in their blood below the limit of detection of the method.

How about the psychological effects that live long after ?

.

Bongalongherb

I wonder what happens if you walk into a building and someone is smoking a cannabis joint and you walked passed and take in second hand smoke from this and hop into your car. Imagine being done for drug driving over second hand smoke from your local area or just breathing it in while passing someone.

This government gets dumber each week.

Pat Mustard

There is a pre-existing thread on this so this thread is now closed.