Assessable Income Definition

mcardler

I am preparing a statement of my father's income for the HSE who have withdrawn his medical card. My query relates to Assessable income. In the HSE Medical Card National Assessment Guidelines they define Assessable Income as follows:
" The assessable income of a self-employed person is determined as the average weekly Gross Income including trade capital allowances."

Now assuming Gross Income of €300 and capital allowances of €20, that gives Assessable income of €280 in my view. The HSE maintain however that €300 is the Assessable income. To me the this interpretation actually excludes Capital Allowances.

The difference in interpretation is critical in this case as the exclusion of capital allowances puts my father's income over the threshold.

I wonder does anyone have any experience of this treatment or indeed any views on whether the definition of Assessable income above should equate to €300 or €280.

Thanks

premier10

mcardler wrote: »

I am preparing a statement of my father's income for the HSE who have withdrawn his medical card. My query relates to Assessable income. In the HSE Medical Card National Assessment Guidelines they define Assessable Income as follows:
" The assessable income of a self-employed person is determined as the average weekly Gross Income including trade capital allowances."

Now assuming Gross Income of €300 and capital allowances of €20, that gives Assessable income of €280 in my view. The HSE maintain however that €300 is the Assessable income. To me the this interpretation actually excludes Capital Allowances.

The difference in interpretation is critical in this case as the exclusion of capital allowances puts my father's income over the threshold.

I wonder does anyone have any experience of this treatment or indeed any views on whether the definition of Assessable income above should equate to €300 or €280.

Thanks

"is determined as the average weekly Gross Income including trade capital allowances."

To me, the word including would mean before capital allowances, not after/net of capital allowances.

I'm sorry i don't have a better reply or legal answer for you.

myshirt

I always understood they added the trade capital allowances to the average gross income. So in your case, the assessable income would actually be €320.

The 'assessable income' is made up of cash, non-cash, liquid, and illiquid items as far as they see it if that makes sense. Older people might not be cash rich, but may be asset rich, and therein lies the challenge.

On legal definitions and all that jazz, I will say to you that as you go up the echelons in that hse you'll find a lot of resistance to what's known in the trade as 'kerbside lawyers' or 'google merchants'. If you try be a smartass you'll be shot down quite swiftly, as they sharpen their collar against persons like that, rather than sh!t their pants which you'd hope they would.

Solicitors cringe, face-palm, and hit their head repeatedly off the wall thinking 'why me oh lord', when clients go to doctor google for their legal education. Get off google. Get off boards. And get on the phone and think practically. There is no precedent where this definition has been litigated (from what I see on a quick search), and you dont want to be the buachaill putting your hand into your pocket to do so.

Bite your tongue and keep it clean with them, they should help.

Be aware additionally that once the assessment is made, it's made. If you re-present with changed circumstances within 12 months of this assessment then you go into a high-risk review category for 'possibilty has shaped and moulded self into favourable position'. For example, you give up work with a view on getting a medical card or anything else brought about by yourself (in their view) to position yourself in medical card eligibility land. In practice, what this means is that the assessment undertaken there recently for you stands for 12 months before it'll be looked at again.

mcardler

Thanks premier10 and myshirt for your useful replies.

The really interesting thing about this issue is that the HSE guidelines which refer to "Gross income including trade capital allowances" are on their website and dated Nov 2015. Now, still on their website and dated February 2015 are the previous guidelines which define Assessable income as "average weekly Gross Income less Trade Capital Allowances".

Given that the HSE started my father's review in April 2015 and withdrew his medical card in August 2015 I wonder is there something unfair going on here? Have they changed the guidelines in the meantime to excludes his eligibility or should they be using the guidelines that were in existence at the time the Review began?

Even then I still have the problem of proving when the new guidelines came into force as now doubt they would argue that the guidelines came into force prior to his review in April 2015 even though they are dated November 2015 on their website.

As regards speaking to the HSE on the phone they will not discuss any matters with me on the phone (despite priding themselves on having a customer helpline). The whole review process has been a nightmare from our point of view and the appeal which is now in progress is just as tortuous. "Never question the HSE" is the message I'm getting loud and clear. "Thou shalt not win"!