Friend says he's done

LegacyUser

So I flaked on a friend there last week, I said I'd go on a night out with him but made up some bs reason about why I couldn't go the day before. He then says he's done with me. I didn't know what to say, as I felt it a bit overdramatic at the time.

The thing is I have flaked on him and others in our group a few times. None of the others mind, we all do it, but he's the one who's always out and takes it very personally if you don't go when he asks you out. I've done it maybe a dozen times in the past 2 years, and I actually dread telling him because of his reaction.

I do suffer a bit from social anxiety. I'll be out in a pub or nightclub, or anywhere in public really, and sometimes I'll just freeze. I've never said this to him, or any of my friends really. He'd just tell me to cop on and have a pint. I don't enjoy drinking anymore because it just puts me on a down.

He gets very pissed off when you reject him, but he also never does anything that I'd suggest. He literally laughed at me when I asked him if he wanted to come over for the McGregor fight, I know he wouldn't but I just said I'd ask

It's been a week and I haven't talked to him or he ain't said anything to me. I don't know what I should do as I don't think I've done a whole lot wrong. I don't want to actually fall out.

I'll be out stephen's night, that's one night I know you just have to go out, and he'll be out as per. When I see him, I was thinking of pretending like he didn't say a thing and act normal, when in truth it's keeping me up at night the fact he said he's done with me

I don't know what to think

R.D. aka MR.D

When you say 'flaked' do you mean that you had said that you would go but then pulled out?

You say he takes it personally when you don't go out if he asks, do you mean he takes it personally when you agree to go out and then cancel or just simply refuse as you have something else to do/don't want to?

The two situations are very different. I despise people who are flaky. I usually give someone the benefit of the doubt but it happens often or 2 or 3 times in a row, I don't bother with them anymore.

If it is the case that you are a constant flaker then in my opinion you have 'done a whole lot wrong'. When somebody flakes it is basically saying; I have no respect for you or your time. I can't be believed because I made an arrangement with no intention of keeping it. You're not important enough to me that I can make the effort to keep my word.


Everybody flakes, occasionally ( you say 'we all do it' but how often is the same people over and over?) but habitual flakers are intolerable.

If he's 'done with' you then I wouldn't blame him but if you don't want to fall out then just chat to him on stephen's night, no big deal. Just act normal but if he asks you to something again, just say no if you don't want to go or you're not 100% committed to going.

December2012

I understand where he is coming from. If my friend flaked on me like you did to him I'd be done with that friend too. Saying you will go out and cancelling for a "bs reason" is the same as lying to your friend.

Why should your friend accommodate you by spending time with you early in the morning when you have cancelled plans so many times. And it wasn't even a genuine invitation anyway.

The fact that others do it does not make it ok, 12 times over the course of a friendship is too much, let alone in 2 years.

You can't accuse him of being over dramatic.

Can't you see what you e done is a sign that your friendship isn't working?

sashafierce

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Rubberchikken

i don't see the problem in cancelling plans but i might be alone on that one. so, op, maybe for the future only say yes if you think you'll definitely go.
as for your friend, maybe he's a bit off at being let down so often, but at the same time he's behaving no better when he expects everyone to do what he wants. a friend will bend a little. go to see something different that the others want, call over to watch the fight instead of going to the pub etc.

his behaviour smacks of a little bullying, a lot of sulking. noit great in anyone, least of all an adult.

you could explain about your social anxiety but you actually don't have to.
if you want to keep the friendship, then you can apologise, but tbh, he needs to start responding a bit better too.
good luck

sashafierce

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screamer

I can understand your friend I'd have been done long before being flaked in 12 times. Why did you not just say no I can't make it better that than to say you'll go and then let him down. It's not an admirable quality in anyone I'd consider a friend.

ManOfMystery

Dropping out of an arranged night out or event 12 times in a couple of years is way OTT. I have a friend who used to do this and they're no longer a friend. As has been said above, it's - at best - a complete lack of consideration, at worst it's sending a message to your friend (no matter how accurate or inaccurate it may be) that you do not value his time, his friendship or could be bothered making an effort for him. What if he cancelled other plans to meet you, and then you cancel on him? What if he has had a really ****ty week and was looking forward to getting out, and you cancel on him? What if he's bought clothes or the like just for going out and you cancel on him? A little consideration would go a long way here.

If I'm honest, your friend also sounds a little pushy - but based on the limited information you've given us, it's difficult to say if that is just his nature or if he's become more like that due because he expects you to drop out all the time.

If I was in your shoes, I'd apologise. And if you want to retain his friendship at all, you need to make more of an effort in future. 'Flaking out' often is not the small thing you think it is, it's incredibly infuriating to many of us. If you have a social anxiety issue, then address it and speak to someone about it rather than letting these situations happen over and over.

Pawwed Rig

ManOfMystery wrote: »

If I was in your shoes, I'd apologise. And if you want to retain his friendship at all, you need to make more of an effort in future. 'Flaking out' often is not the small thing you think it is, it's incredibly infuriating to many of us. If you have a social anxiety issue, then address it and speak to someone about it rather than letting these situations happen over and over.

Follow this advice imo. Pretty crap way to treat a 'friend'.

TG1

I'd be very disappointed with your friend to be honest... Flaking out 12 times in 2 years is not that many! Particularly if everything you do is on his terms, doing what he wants when he wants...
I'd be sitting down and having a chat with him, explaining that you are sorry you flaked, but going out and getting drunk just isn't that appealing to you anymore (you don't even need to mention the anxiety if you don't want).
I'd suggest you give him a few examples of alternate things you would like to do and see will he accommodate you. If he does, great, you can go drinking a few times and do whatever you want a few times and you'll both be happy. If he won't, then you are as well off without him!
I stopped going out drinking for the same reason, couldn't deal with the down days afterwards, and some friends stopped socialising with me, while others understood and we found other ways to spend time together. Guess which I consider my real friends!

sashafierce

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LegacyUser

It's bothered you enough that it's keeping you awake at night and you've actually gone to the effort of writing a thread about it here, so I don't think you are really the stereotypical bad selfish self-centred type of "flaker".

Tbh your friend sounds like he is a bit too pushy, especially if you regularly fear his reaction for times you need to "reject" him/not go along with his social arrangements.

Nobody should be afraid of their friends, you should feel comfortable enough to just say "I'm not in the mood to go out tonight" and not be afraid of getting a very strong negative reaction.

It would be a different story if you were constantly avoiding spending time with or being there for a friend but by the sounds of it you make plenty of time for your friends just on occasion don't feel up for a night out for whatever reason and that's ok.

Your only mistake is lying/flaking at last minute on plans.

I think you should have a chat with this friend and tell him some of what you told us here. Admit and apologise for the most recent being flaky incident, but also just be upfront and admit that you want to remain friends but that you are just not into the whole drinking scene as much anymore and point out that when you suggest other activities he laughs at you and that's not a great friend thing to do either.

Tell him you are going to be more honest from now on and that if you don't feel like going out certain nights, you are just going to say so and that he has no need to take it as some personal insult against him. You do want to remain friends and you wouldn't be having this chat with him if you didn't etc.

Don't be stressing about St. Stephen's night. People are often in a 'Christmas spirit' type of form around then and may want to get along/repair friendships. Although for your own peace of mind and so you stop lying awake at night worrying, I'd suggest you try to clear the air with him much sooner just so you have St. Stephen's night to look forward to with no worries.

LegacyUser

OP here

Just one thing I want to clarify. This is only the 2nd time I've "flaked" on him. What I meant by saying I flaked on him a dozen times in the past 2 years, was actually just saying I didn't want to go out when he first asked me. His usual over-reaction is what caused me to say I would go out this time when I never had any intention. He doesn't take no as an answer, he is quite pushy.

As far as I know, me saying I wouldn't go out has never stopped him from going out. He's the type to go out on his own anyway, often has. We're not the closest of friends, we're just friends in a group.

If I do fall out with him for good, it would probably lead to a separation between our friends. They'd have to ask either me or him to do things, and I've no doubt I'd be the one on the outside. I just don't know if I can bring myself to say sorry when I really don't feel I've done anything wrong.

baby and crumble

OP, if I were in his shoes I'd be annoyed too. It's totally fine if something does genuinely come up and you can't make it to an event or something, but cancelling relatively last minute and making up an excuse to do so is just ****ty behaviour. A lot of your problems could be solved by honesty, tell your friend that you suffer from social anxiety and that's why you've cancelled so much in the past, and that you don't enjoy drinking etc. In fairness if you feel pushed into doing something you don't really want (going out drinking) then coupled with any level of social anxiety, that'll mean far less motivation to actually go.

And to be honest, nobody "has" to go out drinking on St. Stephens night. I'm 33 and I've been drinking once on St. Stephens night. It was crap and I vowed never to go again, so I don't. I'm really honest with my friends and they know I don't like going to pubs that much, so usually we organise different things to do, like food, cinema, coffee, drinks at my house, etc. You just have to learn to be honest. Right now he has said he's done with you as a friend so you've nothing left to loose by being honest in this way, have you?

PressRun

You said yourself you gave a "bs reason" for flaking out and that you've done this a dozen other times to him and your other friends. Flakey is up there among one of the most annoying problems in a friendship. In my experience, flakey people have no concept of the fact that other people might be relying on them or that other people's time and energy is as valuable as theirs and they don't want it wasted. Why would your friend go over to yours to watch the McGregor fight at 5 in the morning when you'd flaked on him before? If you don't like drinking or prefer having more chilled out nights, then tell him that and be up front rather than giving a "bs reason" at the last minute. Being honest with the guy is probably the best way of saving the friendship at this point.

And nobody has to do anything on St. Stephen's night. I just usually go to a friend's house with a gang and we all just hang out and have a few drinks there for the night rather than being packed into a pub like sardines. If you don't like pubs, then you can always suggest doing something like that.

LegacyUser

unsure if wrong wrote: »

OP here

Just one thing I want to clarify. This is only the 2nd time I've "flaked" on him. What I meant by saying I flaked on him a dozen times in the past 2 years, was actually just saying I didn't want to go out when he first asked me. His usual over-reaction is what caused me to say I would go out this time when I never had any intention. He doesn't take no as an answer, he is quite pushy.

As far as I know, me saying I wouldn't go out has never stopped him from going out. He's the type to go out on his own anyway, often has. We're not the closest of friends, we're just friends in a group.

If I do fall out with him for good, it would probably lead to a separation between our friends. They'd have to ask either me or him to do things, and I've no doubt I'd be the one on the outside. I just don't know if I can bring myself to say sorry when I really don't feel I've done anything wrong.

Ok so 10 times over 2 yrs was you saying an up front no to something. That's relatively ok, in that you're not messing the person around then. Although if someone has said no to me that often, I'd be thinking about how much - or little - we had in common, and whether there was much point in continuing the friendship.

However, flaking on someone (in the normally understood sense of making an arrangement and then breaking it) is totally unacceptable. Sure, everyone has family or work things that must take priority once in a while - but just flaking is not on IMO.

I value my time not at work, and if I've made plans with someone that I'm looking forward to - or they leave me at a loose end when I've turned down other things because I've planned to meet them and they flake on me, I'd be very annoyed. I would feel that they'd treated me like I didn't matter, and I wouldn't be too inclined to bother much with them in the future. Of course everyone deserves a couple of chances - but any more flaking than that, and I'd drop them tbh.

And not everyone does it OP, it's a major no no. Fair enough you have stuff going on, but he's not clairvoyant! Right now I'd say he's justifiably p*ssed off with you.

TG1

unsure if wrong wrote: »

OP here

His usual over-reaction is what caused me to say I would go out this time when I never had any intention. He doesn't take no as an answer, he is quite pushy.

As far as I know, me saying I wouldn't go out has never stopped him from going out. He's the type to go out on his own anyway, often has. We're not the closest of friends, we're just friends in a group.

No friendship should be based on you being bullied into going out. The fact that you agreed despite not wanting to go because you were afraid of his reaction means you are not in an equal relationship. Him threatening to end the friendship when you "flaked" means he is throwing his weight around because he knows he holds the power.

I'm getting upset reading this because 5 years ago I could have written your original post, and I had a really hard time before i realised life is too short to keep people like that happy.

I know a lot of people are saying you shouldn't have flaked but if he has you so afraid to say no in case he splits up the group by causing drama its not you flaking, it's him being unreasonable and putting you under pressure to do something you don't want to do. That's not a friendship, that's bullying.

lyinghere

TG1 wrote: »

No friendship should be based on you being bullied into going out. The fact that you agreed despite not wanting to go because you were afraid of his reaction means you are not in an equal relationship. Him threatening to end the friendship when you "flaked" means he is throwing his weight around because he knows he holds the power.

I'm getting upset reading this because 5 years ago I could have written your original post, and I had a really hard time before i realised life is too short to keep people like that happy.

I know a lot of people are saying you shouldn't have flaked but if he has you so afraid to say no in case he splits up the group by causing drama its not you flaking, it's him being unreasonable and putting you under pressure to do something you don't want to do. That's not a friendship, that's bullying.

He's hardly being bullied. OP wants to be able to bail on plans last minute without being made feel bad for his rudeness.

The friend is entitled to be offended in my opinion because the OP seems to have a habit of doing this very flippantly. He does seem to be overreacting a littl though. He is probablty just vocalising what many wouldn't which is that your word doesn't mean much to him at the moment.

Hopefully he comes around and I think if you want to remain friends you should try make plans that you both would enjoy doing and be sure to keep them if you do genuinely want to keep the friend.

If you can't find anything you both would enjoy then I'd be kind of thinking what's the point of the friendship anymore. Neither of you should be socialising in a way that's not enjoyable to you both, life's to short.

LeeLooLee

It's absolutely rude and your friend is entitled to be annoyed and drop you as a friend. I would too. I had a friend like this - he'd be all enthusiastic about making plans, then let you down at the very last minute for some BS reason. He did it to everyone. He had no grasp at all of the fact that people could have planned something else if they'd known he was going to flake and that they had probably turned down other invitations to spend time with him. If you don't like drinking then don't make plans to go out drinking. Once you make plans, you go ahead with them, unless there's a very valid reason.

smarty_mcfly

unsure if wrong wrote: »

OP here

Just one thing I want to clarify. This is only the 2nd time I've "flaked" on him. What I meant by saying I flaked on him a dozen times in the past 2 years, was actually just saying I didn't want to go out when he first asked me. His usual over-reaction is what caused me to say I would go out this time when I never had any intention. He doesn't take no as an answer, he is quite pushy.

Hey OP, in this situation it might be worthwhile to seriously evaluate your relationship with your friend especially if him asking you out causes you stress because he only ever asks you to do things that he wants to do, and never agrees / acquiesces to doing things that you would like to do...

what do you actually get out of this relationship? what are you willing to invest in it?

Sunny Dayz

OP it's very bad form to keep flaking on people. I'm surprised he hadn't lost his cool with you before now. Or that you are even still being invited on nights out.
A friend used to do that aswell - say she was going on the night out, then cancel early in the day. We came to just expect her to cancel. Still remained friends with her as apart from cancelling on nights out, she was a good friend in other ways and kept to other arrangements. In the end, between finding out the reasons behind her cancelling and us all growing up a bit, we got over it and it's no longer an issue.
I think you should explain to your friend why you have been cancelling on him.

suicide_circus

Relationships take effort. You're not making any.

Shrap

suicide_circus wrote: »

Relationships take effort. You're not making any.

Yes, they do, but the friend doesn't seem to be making any effort either. If the pub is the only way this pair socialise, and the OP isn't willing or able to explain to the friend that he has some social anxiety and that holds him back from going out/contributes to his flakiness, then I don't see much chance of a reconciliation here!

Flaking out on socialising is understandable, IF the flaky one explains the reasons why. It is an annoying trait, and one that I've been guilty of with a particular friend who I used to go out with at the drop of a hat. I started not enjoying the pub scene anymore and failed to explain that to her properly before flaking out on her a few times. However, she never lost the run of herself over it and all was grand after I explained. OP's friend may not be that understanding.....which is another side to the problem here.

beks101

I think you should deal with the social anxiety and that will make handling your friendships and relationships a bit easier.

I used to do things like this when I was younger, "sure, let's go out Friday" when I had no intention, I just didn't have the confidence or assertiveness to say "No I can't" outright and that led to all kinds of aggro and angst among my friends. I think it stems from your low self esteem and need to people-please, perhaps because you've let this guy down quite a few times before and are afraid of confrontation.

The first question you need to ask yourself is, do you actually value this guy's friendship? Do you actually want to spend any time with him? Forget about the social circle and consequences of ending the friendship and just think about your own relationship with the fella. Is it a valuable one to you? Is your social anxiety the only reason for all the let-downs or is it a handy excuse to get out of doing something you don't want to do?

After that, you need to start asserting yourself more with friends and these social situations. If you absolutely cannot do something, say it, right there and then. "Sorry lads I'm tied up that weekend". Simple as that. It's far, far easier in the long-run and doesn't mess anyone around.

And then you need to start making more of an effort with the friends that matter to you. Why not instigate something yourself? Organize a night out yourself. Invite everyone, set up the fb or whatsapp group, select the venue and time etc. It will get you used to taking control of things and taking responsibility for your friendships and social life, as opposed to opting in or out of things as you please.

And finally remember that good friends are important. They're also hard to come by. And they don't stick around if you let them down regularly.

CaraMay

Twice in two years isn't bad. I would jußt ignore what he had said too and enjoy your night out with your friends. He sounds v high maintenance tbh.

Sunflower 27

Hi, this friendship is not healthy for you. You should not feel guilt-tripped into going out.

Twice in two years is nothing. He's done you a favour. Let this friendship go and have a good Christmas