Stopping Mother In Law Seeing Kids

LegacyUser

Myself and my wife stopped her mother seeing our two kids about 4 months ago. There is a lot of stuff I could write here to justify it but I'll try and stick to the facts and I'd appreciate people giving their view on whether we are being too harsh or not:

1. The woman is mentally ill. From what I've heard, I think she is bi-polar.
2. She has threatened to kill her partner and her daughter.
3. She said that when her kids were young, she thought about killing them (we think her reasoning was that the world was too horrible to bring up kids)
4. She regularly threatens suicide
5. She regularly abuses my wife. Some of it was really nasty and has involved her mentioning my wife's dead father in pretty disparaging terms.
6. She has a crippling pain killer addiction.

When she did see my kids, she was a good grandmother to them. However, I don't like the woman for a whole host of reasons and in light of the above, I'm not sure that being in her care is a good thing for my children.

I know not allowing her to see the kids is a massive step so I guess I'm wondering what other people think.

Merkin

If the woman is genuinely ill with bipolar then castigating her for that is cruel. If she has always been kind to your grandchildren than I would suggest supervised visits. You give her mental illness as the primary reason to deprive her of your children's company and that just seems terribly harsh. Because every other subsequent reason could be attributable to her illness. It's like cutting someone out of your life because they have MS or cancer. I do appreciate that trying to deal with someone with a condition like bipolar can be hard work but she is your children's grandparent.

Reestablish contact, lay down some very clear ground rules and boundaries and to ensure your children's safety make sure that you are with them at all times.

Sound Bite

I don't have children so I can't imagine how difficult a position that this is.

I think you have a lot of reasons for concerns based on your post.

I presume unsupervised access is out of the question understandably but wonder if there's any way that you could fit in some small time where either you or your wife are present. What is her behaviour like in general? are there certain triggers etc? can you see it getting progressively worse? Is the woman under any medical supervision and could any medical professionals who know her advise you?

That said, your children's safety is your primary concern so a decision taken to protect them, even if seemingly harsh, may be the right one and you shouldn't feel guilty about it. How do they react in her company?

PressRun

Have any attempts been made to get her help if she is actually mentally ill? Do you not think it might be more appropriate for you and your wife to assist her in getting psychiatric treatment? Cutting her out of your lives and the lives of her grandchildren isn't going to help her or teach her a lesson if she has an illness that makes it difficult for her to control her moods and causes her to behave erratically. If anything, it will probably just make her worse. Living with mentally ill people isn't easy, but it's important to support people who have these illnesses. Furthermore, if she is a good grandmother to your children, you're also doing them a disservice by removing her from their lives on the basis that you personally don't like her. I agree that supervised visits would be the best route to go if you genuinely have concerns for your children's safety.

Lau2976

As others have said do you actually consider bi polar disorder a possibility?

If so cutting her off for things she's done which she may not have done in sound mind is incredibly cruel. She needs help not to be ignored.

I'm bi-polar, luckily I have parents and family bo have tried their hardest to go above and beyond in supporting and helping me, I can't imagine going back to the days before I was diagonised and getting help for it. It's terrifying. If she is bipolar, or even just addicted to painkillers, try helping her instead of cutting her off. It will benefit everybody in the long run.

LegacyUser

Lau2976 wrote: »

As others have said do you actually consider bi polar disorder a possibility?

If so cutting her off for things she's done which she may not have done in sound mind is incredibly cruel. She needs help not to be ignored.

I'm bi-polar, luckily I have parents and family bo have tried their hardest to go above and beyond in supporting and helping me, I can't imagine going back to the days before I was diagonised and getting help for it. It's terrifying. If she is bipolar, or even just addicted to painkillers, try helping her instead of cutting her off. It will benefit everybody in the long run.

We have tried to get her to seek help but she won't go or she goes and stops after a session or two. Her partner and other kids are denying that there is any sort of problem (I guess because they've lived with it their entire lives and think it's normal behaviour or should be just tolerated).

LegacyUser

AmIBeingTooHard? wrote: »

Myself and my wife stopped her mother seeing our two kids about 4 months ago. There is a lot of stuff I could write here to justify it but I'll try and stick to the facts and I'd appreciate people giving their view on whether we are being too harsh or not:

1. The woman is mentally ill. From what I've heard, I think she is bi-polar.
2. She has threatened to kill her partner and her daughter.
3. She said that when her kids were young, she thought about killing them (we think her reasoning was that the world was too horrible to bring up kids)
4. She regularly threatens suicide
5. She regularly abuses my wife. Some of it was really nasty and has involved her mentioning my wife's dead father in pretty disparaging terms.
6. She has a crippling pain killer addiction.

When she did see my kids, she was a good grandmother to them. However, I don't like the woman for a whole host of reasons and in light of the above, I'm not sure that being in her care is a good thing for my children.

I know not allowing her to see the kids is a massive step so I guess I'm wondering what other people think.

Sometimes you have to cut toxic people out of your life for the sake of your own mental health. There was a time when I had to cut my (now ex) MIL out my childs life because she was an alcoholic who used to ring threatening abuse at all hours of the night, she would ring and say I would never see my child again.

Now of course I am not saying that people who are mentally ill are toxic but the same applies there, sometimes if someone is mentally ill and it is impacting on you then you need to cut them out of your life for some time, you can offer help but if they won't take it then what can you do?

From what you've said I would never be able to leave my children in her care so supervised visits are your only option for now and if you would find them impossible to bear or very stressful then I can fully understand why you would have to cut her out.

The Princess Bride

Having read your posts Op, I think you're doing the right thing.
I'm assuming your children are too young to make their own decisions.
This woman chose not to seek medical help, so be it. Her threats are of a serious nature and I for one wouldn't take a chance by exposing my children to such behaviour.

They will never suffer as a result of not seeing her, but if she's carrying on as you've listed in your post, then I think you've made the best decision. Her abuse of her daughter, your children's mother alone, would be enough of a reason in my book.
The fact that your wife is of the same opinion of you is going to make this easier.

My own children have 2 grandparents who adore them and had 2 others who didn't give a toss. As they grew they saw for themselves how lucky they were with 2, rather than focusing on what never was with the others.
Once children are surrounded by people who love them, they'll always feel secure.

Best of luck.

R.D. aka MR.D

I definitely wouldn't allow her unsupervised access. I know it's great to be understanding of mental illness but there is a point when you have to put yourself and your children first, especially if she refuses to get help.

Rachiee

The things you have mentioned seem more to do with why you and your partner wouldn't want to be around your MIL or why you may not trust her to have unsupervised access rather than to how she engages with her grandchildren.

I would think if she has been warm loving supportive and caring towards the children there's no reason she shouldn't be able to see them while you or your wife are present, that of course means you or your wife need to see your MIL and I have a feeling that there in lies the problem.

Is there a mutual family member like an aunt or uncle that could take them to see her they could all go off and spend the day together?

If you do decide to arrange access, with boundaries,eg. once a month go to the park or for something to eat or even a home visit she must never argue with or abuse you or your wife in front of the kids that would be an absolute deal breaker.

If your MIL has been unwell throughout her life it it's likely your wife had a very difficult upbringing and a complex relationship with her mother. she may feel the need to protect her children from having the same negative experience however it is likely her behaviour towards them is very different.
While I personally wouldn't agree with breaking the relationship up between a grandmother and her grandchildren (unless she was mistreating them) your wife also needs to protect her own mental health and she is the one that will have to live with the fallout of whatever happens on a visit so I don't think anyone can judge her decision if she is cautious decides it's not worth it .

silverbolt

Merkin wrote: »

If the woman is genuinely ill with bipolar then castigating her for that is cruel. If she has always been kind to your grandchildren than I would suggest supervised visits. You give her mental illness as the primary reason to deprive her of your children's company and that just seems terribly harsh. Because every other subsequent reason could be attributable to her illness. It's like cutting someone out of your life because they have MS or cancer. I do appreciate that trying to deal with someone with a condition like bipolar can be hard work but she is your children's grandparent.

Reestablish contact, lay down some very clear ground rules and boundaries and to ensure your children's safety make sure that you are with them at all times.

Pretty much this. If shes bipolar she cant help how she is and like it or not she is still your wifes mother.

nikkibikki

I think you are doing the right thing for the moment OP. The safety and health of your children, your wife and yourself are your primary concerns as they should be.

It goes without saying that anyone who behaves like that has some sort of mental health issue. There is only so much you can do for her without her helping herself. Ye're own mental health will suffer if ye put up with too much. What ye are doing is necessary to protect ye're own mental health.

Who knows how things will be if she engages with doctors etc who can help her and this might be the kick in the a$$ she needs to do this.

Your wife might benefit from some counselling OP. Sounds like she's had a tough time with her mother and made tougher when she doesn't have the support of her siblings. She is lucky to have your support. I'd imagine the mental health charities offer tailored support for families of mentally ill people.

Rubberchikken

i imagine you're not considering leaving the children alone in her care, so them seeing her and getting to know her when she's in good form will only benefit both them and her.

she sounds very unwell and tbh, maybe her family should be pressing for support and help for her.
with help she could have some good years left in which to have a good life and maybe get to enjoy her family.

strandroad

AmIBeingTooHard? wrote: »

When she did see my kids, she was a good grandmother to them.

Why don't you allow her supervised access then?

I understand that she's not stable enough to have them unsupervised, absolutely. But is she behaves well around them, to cut her off completely sounds unjustified.

Edit: There's also this thing that she can take you to court for access if denied, a grandparent has such rights I believe.

deisemum

OP I think you and your wife are right to cut her out. Although she may be nice to your children yet abuses their mother then children should be protected from that abuse as it's not good for their own emotional and psychological welfare plus it's also teaching them that it's ok to abuse their mother.

Lux23

I can understand why you may be uncomfortable with this woman looking after your children, however she has been a good grandmother so far. I think you may allow her to visit her grandkids?

Neyite

It is a massive step, and it will be one that causes ripples though the wider family. A big no-contact stance may cut you off from other family, and be very stressful to maintain, mainly for your wife. What you describe about your MIL though is very concerning:

- She may have an undiagnosed mental health issue that she is not addressing and that family are enabling.
- She has a drug addiction.
- She threatens violence, self harm and is abusive towards your wife.

Honestly, one of those factors would be enough for me to ensure that visits are kept short, sweet and vigilantly supervised by both of you. And if she was unable to keep from verbally abusing your wife, I'd reduce contact further. If you do have to visit her or see her at a family gathering, I'd suggest that you are there with your wife so she cant get her alone to verbally abuse, and if she kicks off, just leave.

I am very sympathetic about mental health issues and the way that I see it is that if a loving grandmother harmed their grandchild while in the grip of a MH episode, when they did come to their senses or got treatment, they would be utterly devastated at the harm caused, and its the job of those around the person to ensure that harm does not happen to children in this situation. It's irresponsible to just say "Oh, they are mentally ill, let them at it" and no mental health professional would say that either.

For the verbal abuse alone, your wife has every right to not engage with anyone, and has no obligation to share her children's lives and expose them to someone verbally abusive towards their mother. I disagree with people who say that you owe it to your children to keep links maintained to family members. Families come in all shapes and sizes and plenty of kids have little or no contact with a grandparent or other relative and are not in any way deprived for it.

There is a relative who I won't leave my children with unsupervised. There were very a couple of minor incidences with another child in the family, which made me wonder if there was *something* there. Another sibling came to the same conclusion as me a good while back and we only found out we both had the same view recently. I'm still friendly and interact with that person. I don't avoid them or treat them any differently, but I'd never ask them to babysit, or leave my child with them for a length of time. I'm not sure if I'm right or wrong in being cautious, but that tiny tiny risk is simply not worth it for me.

Really, all you can do is support your wife in what she wants to do with her mother. If she wants some contact with her, you should work on ways to support her during visits. If she wants no contact, again, you can help support her or run interference from the flying monkeys the MIL might send. Follow your wife's lead.

LegacyUser

Thanks for the honest replies.

To clarify a few things.

We don't want to be around the woman ourselves. Aside from the mental illness, I think she is poison anyway.

There is no one we can trust to supervise on our behalf. Other family members won't acknowledge the problem so even saying that visits have to be supervised would cause murder.

My wife has told me other things from her childhood that I just don't want my kids exposed to.

I do feel guilty about it and I do understand that this seems cruel. My wife says that since she has become a mother, she has realised how not normal her upbringing was and coupled with the pretty shocking abuse she wants to cut ties. However, I'm worried that my wife is being too heavily influenced by me and my opinion.

Neyite

Becoming a parent can sometimes enlighten us a lot about parent-child relationships, particularly when the one you had as a child was difficult or neglectful for any reason. You feel the bond, feel protective, and wonder how anyone can treat their child unkindly.

Maybe encourage your wife to look into counselling? And if she wants to read about like-minded situations, and get guidance and insight from people who have gone down the no-contact route, this thread is a great place to start.

SAMTALK

AmIBeingTooHard wrote: »

Thanks for the honest replies.

To clarify a few things.

We don't want to be around the woman ourselves. Aside from the mental illness, I think she is poison anyway.

There is no one we can trust to supervise on our behalf. Other family members won't acknowledge the problem so even saying that visits have to be supervised would cause murder.

My wife has told me other things from her childhood that I just don't want my kids exposed to.

I do feel guilty about it and I do understand that this seems cruel. My wife says that since she has become a mother, she has realised how not normal her upbringing was and coupled with the pretty shocking abuse she wants to cut ties. However, I'm worried that my wife is being too heavily influenced by me and my opinion.

I also had to stop contact with my kids and certain members of the family.
As a mother you will protect them from whatever you think will harm them either emotionally or physically.
My reasoning was that if they could carry on like that (pure evil and nasty) I wouldnt want my children around them. They dont need influences like that in their lives.
Give your wife some credit for protecting your kids from what she had to endure.

Ms. Pingui

It's all very well cutting contact and I agree it's probably what's best in your case. However, if she brings you to court you will simply be forced to hand your kids over for whatever access the judge decides, whether you think it's suitable or unsafe or not. I'm in the middle of this right now and believe me the judges just don't want to know what you've got to say unfortunately.

discus

The needs and safety of your children and family are greater than the need to keep a mentally ill relative in your friendship circle.

Right choice OP

suicide_circus

I completely disagree with those calling you cruel. She is a toxic personality with a substance abuse problem who has threatened to murder people. She has no business near your children until she seeks help.

ManOfMystery

Totally agree with the OP's sentiments.

As adults it's easy for us to excuse - or at least, understand - the actions of others because they have a mental illness, an addiction, etc. However regardless of the reasons behind their actions, children should not have to be exposed to that kind of toxic situation. A parent can't just assume their 5yr old kid will be alright because poor Granny has a mental illness and isn't really responsible for her foul language, dangerous behaviour, threats to kill and so on.

Children's welfare is #1 priority. Keep them away from that. If mental illness really is behind this woman's actions and she's just not a vile witch at heart .......... well, it's tough but that's life. The children need to be kept safe above all else.