natural diet for running

William F

Is there a natural diet that works well with running? I've tried everything so far from high protein to vegan and to vegetarian. I'm back eating fish again after 5 years of vegetarianism and my weight has increased since then.

I use to hover around the 82kg mark about 2 years ago and I'm now 88kg even though I run 30-40km a week. I'm obviously eating in excess of what I should be eating. My lifestyle is pretty sedentary after that so I'm asking what should I do? Just count calories?

I would like to be about 80kg but I'm not sure f it's possible. I'm an endomorph.

I would appreciate any help.

BeepBeep67

As a knowledgeable poster on here once said, it's not rocket science 'move more, eat less' This works for the majority, there will always be exceptions.

average_runner

William F wrote: »

Is there a natural diet that works well with running? I've tried everything so far from high protein to vegan and to vegetarian. I'm back eating fish again after 5 years of vegetarianism and my weight has increased since then.

I use to hover around the 82kg mark about 2 years ago and I'm now 88kg even though I run 30-40km a week. I'm obviously eating in excess of what I should be eating. My lifestyle is pretty sedentary after that so I'm asking what should I do? Just count calories?

I would like to be about 80kg but I'm not sure f it's possible. I'm an endomorph.

I would appreciate any help.

Eating fish wouldn't put weight on unless your adding loads of cream etc.

Whats in your lunch and breakfast? What part are you not telling us about? Fizzy drinks, beer, snacks etc?

What height are you and your water intake?

William F

average_runner wrote: »

Eating fish wouldn't put weight on unless your adding loads of cream etc.

Whats in your lunch and breakfast? What part are you not telling us about? Fizzy drinks, beer, snacks etc?

What height are you and your water intake?

I'm 5 foot 10. I gave up junk food over six weeks ago and it had no effects on me. This morning I had two baps with four eggs.

Last night before bed :pac:, I had a goodfellas garlic pizza and two plates of chips (because it was Sunday.)

hardCopy

William F wrote: »

I'm 5 foot 10. I gave up junk food over six weeks ago and it had no effects on me. This morning I had two baps with four eggs.

Last night before bed :pac:, I had a goodfellas garlic pizza and two plates of chips (because it was Sunday.)

The two baps alone could be 300-400 calories and have almost no nutritional benefit.

Try using myfitnesspal for a week and scan EVERYTHING you consume. You'll soon spot where your excess calories are coming from.

Zillah

There are no gimmicks or shortcuts. The fact that you keep trying to find the one secret special diet that will be your magic bullet is not a good sign. You just need to eat less calories and seem to have trouble accepting that, so you're probably a good candidate for super-strict calorie counting on, as suggested above, an app like MyFitnessPal.

It's not fish, it's not meat, it's not even junk food: it is the total calories that you've have at the end of any given day/week/month. If you eat more than your body needs it will store the excess as fat. Stop giving it more than it needs.

pconn062

William F wrote: »

I'm 5 foot 10. I gave up junk food over six weeks ago and it had no effects on me. This morning I had two baps with four eggs.

Last night before bed :pac:, I had a goodfellas garlic pizza and two plates of chips (because it was Sunday.)

Endomorph, I'll admit I had to google that one. By the sounds of it your diet is terrible, it's OK to pig out on the occasional Sunday but Sunday comes around fairly often so it can mean 52 days of the year of pigging out, not including birthdays, holiday, Christmas etc.

The good thing is if you make a few small changes then you should see big improvements. Cut down on simple carbs like white bread/rice, sugary cereals, fizzy drinks. Protein is hard for a veggie (I'm also vegetarian) but try and get as much as you can, nuts, pulses and beans and all that really help. Bulk out your dinners with loads of veg. Plenty of water and the occasional treat is OK, it's pretty simple stuff.

hardCopy

pconn062 wrote: »

it's OK to pig out on the occasional Sunday but Sunday comes around fairly often

I like that one

Notwork Error

William F wrote: »

I'm an endomorph

Don't label yourself with this nonsense OP. Body somatype was a theory created in psychology to link personality traits to bodytype and has been debunked a long time ago and has zero standing in physiology, there is no such thing as an endomorph.

ford2600

BeepBeep67 wrote: »

As a knowledgeable poster on here once said, it's not rocket science 'move more, eat less' This works for the majority, there will always be exceptions.

It's works for lots of dieters in the short term or even medium term.

In the long term nearly all fail.

The trouble with "move more eat less" message is we have pretty complicated biology and for people like op who struggle with weight when they eat less their body burns less.

The system which controls body fat is pretty complicated but the main players are leptin (a hormone we have relative to how fat we are) the hypothalamus and other hormones like ghrelin (appetite) and thyroid.

If you struggle with fat, you can view it as eating too much or a dysfunction in the system which controls for body fat.

One other system which will cause issue is the food reward signalling system in brain. While eating calorie dense food at every opportunity, and it in short term making you feel good, was a useful tool in the past, in our toxic calorie dense food environment it is a massive disadvantage to good health. You guessed it obese people in general have a much more developed food reward signalling system, especially when they are dieting and the leptin/hypothalamus system is defending a high level of body fat by increasing appetite, decreasing energy output.

OP your best chance at dropping weight in long is eating clean, eat foods which give you adequate protein, lots and lots of fibre and adequate fats.

It's harder for you than a naturally lean person, so if your really serious junk food (which you are hardwired to seek out) has to go almost completely.

Tiddlypeeps

William F wrote: »

I'm 5 foot 10. I gave up junk food over six weeks ago and it had no effects on me. This morning I had two baps with four eggs.

Last night before bed :pac:, I had a goodfellas garlic pizza and two plates of chips (because it was Sunday.)

Based on the stats you listed so far in this thread your TDEE is probably around 2800/2900, that is the number of calories you burn everyday. Look for a TDEE calculator online to get a more accurate number as those numbers are just a best guess on what you stated here.

Your BMR is what your body burns at rest, it's sort of a minimum that you shouldn't really go below or you can start to see adverse effects. For you this is going to be around 1800/1900 calories a day (again use online calculators with all of your stats so you can get a more accurate number). So based on this if I were you I'd aim for about 2,000 calories a day, just a bit above your BMR.

As someone else mentioned 2 baps is going to be about 400 calories, eggs are about 70 calories each so that's 280 more. Assuming you didn't use butter or mayonnaise that's just shy of 700 calories for breakfast. If you did use butter or mayonnaise that could go up by another 100/200 calories. Depending on the rest of the day this in itself may not be too bad, if you tend to be the type of person that east a big breakfast and dinner but only a light lunch and little to no snacks (or various combinations) then it could be ok, but I suspect this isn't the case. Even if you cut out one bap and keep the eggs it cutting just those 200 calories alone could make a big difference (assuming you don't just eat more in the rest of the day to make it up).

That Sunday dinner tho is a big problem regardless of what way you come at it. Most Goodfellas pizzas are around the 1,000 calorie mark for a whole pizza, sometimes more. It's hard to guess what a plate of chips is because a plate can be any size, but for comparison a half a bag of chipper chips from a standard Irish chipper is about 400 calories, or a large fries from McDonalds is about 440 calories. So if you had the equivalent of a full bag of chips from a chipper that's 800 calories, making the whole meal around 1,800 calories. Given that your goal for a day should be around the 2,000 mark if you want to lose weight, I hope that puts it into a bit of perspective.

As others have suggested myFitnessPal for tracking calories is fantastic. Get yourself a kitchen scales too so you can measure what your portions are. It's hard at first but stick with it and it will eventually become habit. After a week or two of tracking the biggest problems with your diet should start to stand out like a sore thumb.

Also try to make choices that have more protein and fat and try to cut down on the carbs. Carbs don't fill you up for very long, you don't have to cut them out completely but I suspect at the moment you are probably eating more carbs than both fat and protein combined which isn't really a good place to be. I'm not sure if you are still fully vegetarian or not, but if you find it hard to get your protein intake up for whatever reason don't be afraid to try out protein shakes. They can be a very easy way to add extra protein and they are incredibly filling.

You don't have to change everything over night either. Just change what you think you can manage and work from there. The best changes are the ones you know you could stick to, it's lifestyle changes you want not just quick fixes.

Best of luck.

William F

Thanks for all the replies. I like the concept of my fitness pal. I downloaded it today and I have a target weight loss of 1 kg a week and a total of 8kg.

They gave me a net calorie intake of 1200 or so calories which isn't bad. I completed a 10k this evening so it gives me an extra 900 calories to eat this evening which I have also completed.

I think this will work for sure. Cheers lads

William F

Tiddlypeeps wrote: »

Based on the stats you listed so far in this thread your TDEE is probably around 2800/2900, that is the number of calories you burn everyday. Look for a TDEE calculator online to get a more accurate number as those numbers are just a best guess on what you stated here.

Your BMR is what your body burns at rest, it's sort of a minimum that you shouldn't really go below or you can start to see adverse effects. For you this is going to be around 1800/1900 calories a day (again use online calculators with all of your stats so you can get a more accurate number). So based on this if I were you I'd aim for about 2,000 calories a day, just a bit above your BMR.

As someone else mentioned 2 baps is going to be about 400 calories, eggs are about 70 calories each so that's 280 more. Assuming you didn't use butter or mayonnaise that's just shy of 700 calories for breakfast. If you did use butter or mayonnaise that could go up by another 100/200 calories. Depending on the rest of the day this in itself may not be too bad, if you tend to be the type of person that east a big breakfast and dinner but only a light lunch and little to no snacks (or various combinations) then it could be ok, but I suspect this isn't the case. Even if you cut out one bap and keep the eggs it cutting just those 200 calories alone could make a big difference (assuming you don't just eat more in the rest of the day to make it up).

That Sunday dinner tho is a big problem regardless of what way you come at it. Most Goodfellas pizzas are around the 1,000 calorie mark for a whole pizza, sometimes more. It's hard to guess what a plate of chips is because a plate can be any size, but for comparison a half a bag of chipper chips from a standard Irish chipper is about 400 calories, or a large fries from McDonalds is about 440 calories. So if you had the equivalent of a full bag of chips from a chipper that's 800 calories, making the whole meal around 1,800 calories. Given that your goal for a day should be around the 2,000 mark if you want to lose weight, I hope that puts it into a bit of perspective.

As others have suggested myFitnessPal for tracking calories is fantastic. Get yourself a kitchen scales too so you can measure what your portions are. It's hard at first but stick with it and it will eventually become habit. After a week or two of tracking the biggest problems with your diet should start to stand out like a sore thumb.

Also try to make choices that have more protein and fat and try to cut down on the carbs. Carbs don't fill you up for very long, you don't have to cut them out completely but I suspect at the moment you are probably eating more carbs than both fat and protein combined which isn't really a good place to be. I'm not sure if you are still fully vegetarian or not, but if you find it hard to get your protein intake up for whatever reason don't be afraid to try out protein shakes. They can be a very easy way to add extra protein and they are incredibly filling.

You don't have to change everything over night either. Just change what you think you can manage and work from there. The best changes are the ones you know you could stick to, it's lifestyle changes you want not just quick fixes.

Best of luck.

From the calculations you've given me, my fitness pal has come in way under what they have suggested. What do you suggest I should do? 1200 calories does seem low but it doesn't scare me, I don't mind the challenge.

I've been off work the last two months with a broken hand but I still run.

average_runner

William F wrote: »

Thanks for all the replies. I like the concept of my fitness pal. I downloaded it today and I have a target weight loss of 1 kg a week and a total of 8kg.

They gave me a net calorie intake of 1200 or so calories which isn't bad. I completed a 10k this evening so it gives me an extra 900 calories to eat this evening which I have also completed.

I think this will work for sure. Cheers lads

One kg a week is a lot especially when u get close to ur ideal weight.

Tiddlypeeps

William F wrote: »

From the calculations you've given me, my fitness pal has come in way under what they have suggested. What do you suggest I should do? 1200 calories does seem low but it doesn't scare me, I don't mind the challenge.

I've been off work the last two months with a broken hand but I still run.

Ignore myFitnessPals suggestions for daily calorie goals, you can input your own. Given how much you run I'd say 2,000 calories is probably pretty close but you should punch your numbers into some online calculators just to get a more accurate idea. If you type BMR calculators or TDEE calulators into google there are a bunch of them.

I wouldn't go any lower than what your BMR is. If you go with very low calorie you will lose a lot in the first week, but that will very quickly plateau off to either small losses or no losses, and it will be very easy to put it back on at that point too. It will also be very difficult to keep up the amount of running you are doing on such a deficit.

MyFitnessPal also over estimates how many calories are burned during excercise, so take those numbers with a pinch of salt too.

William F

Tiddlypeeps wrote: »

Ignore myFitnessPals suggestions for daily calorie goals, you can input your own. Given how much you run I'd say 2,000 calories is probably pretty close but you should punch your numbers into some online calculators just to get a more accurate idea. If you type BMR calculators or TDEE calulators into google there are a bunch of them.

I wouldn't go any lower than what your BMR is. If you go with very low calorie you will lose a lot in the first week, but that will very quickly plateau off to either small losses or no losses, and it will be very easy to put it back on at that point too. It will also be very difficult to keep up the amount of running you are doing on such a deficit.

MyFitnessPal also over estimates how many calories are burned during excercise, so take those numbers with a pinch of salt too.

ok sweet as!

just one more question. If i STick to eating 2000 calories a day should I eat more on training days or maintain this calorie intake regardless?

clear thinking

A mile run is about 100 Kcal so that is about 10 grams of fat. Who needs apps.

Irish_rat

First of all make sure you're eating enough after your runs.

Secondly cut out the baps/bread/dairy milk chocolate/sweets/alcohol/processed foods.

Eat fresh Veg, Fruit, nuts, eggs, fish, whole meats, full fat dairy

On long run days eat more brown pasta/potato.

Punch your foods into my fitness pal to calculate calories.

Eat clean and you'll lose it providing you follow the calorie count.

This is the kind of food I eat everyday. I end up eating bread at work but try and stay away from white bread.

William F

Irish_rat wrote: »

First of all make sure you're eating enough after your runs.

Secondly cut out the baps/bread/dairy milk chocolate/sweets/alcohol/processed foods.

Eat fresh Veg, Fruit, nuts, eggs, fish, whole meats, full fat dairy

On long run days eat more brown pasta/potato.

Punch your foods into my fitness pal to calculate calories.

Eat clean and you'll lose it providing you follow the calorie count.

This is the kind of food I eat everyday. I end up eating bread at work but try and stay away from white bread.

Ok. So if I make an 800 calorie deficit on a run, should I do as my fitness pal tells me and compensate for those calories in my diet?

Irish_rat

William F wrote: »

Ok. So if I make an 800 calorie deficit on a run, should I do as my fitness pal tells me and compensate for those calories in my diet?

Definitely, you need to get this back along with your daily calorie intake. Your body will recover quicker if you follow this. But 800cals shouldn't affect your daily plan too much I would imagine. Just make sure you eat over 2000 cals that day.

I find it hard to get up to that amount after losing 2000+ cals on one run A few big meals and a lot of pasta!

William F

Irish_rat wrote: »

Definitely, you need to get this back along with your daily calorie intake. Your body will recover quicker if you follow this. But 800cals shouldn't affect your daily plan too much I would imagine. Just make sure you eat over 2000 cals that day.

I find it hard to get up to that amount after losing 2000+ cals on one run A few big meals and a lot of pasta!

A bag of red skin peanuts or pistachios is always good if you need to make up extra calories I find.

hardCopy

William F wrote: »

Ok. So if I make an 800 calorie deficit on a run, should I do as my fitness pal tells me and compensate for those calories in my diet?

I wouldn't eat anymore than about half the calories MFP gives me for exercise. It's often way over. Even using something more accurate like a HR monitor I wouldn't normally eat back every exercise calorie, I like the reward of knowing that my exercise has contributed to my weight loss rather than cancelling it out with extra food.

Enduro

William F wrote: »

Ok. So if I make an 800 calorie deficit on a run, should I do as my fitness pal tells me and compensate for those calories in my diet?

If you're not hungry then don't eat. Don't worry about the need to eat X amount of calories. It's a generic indicator from one of multiple possible (and usually contradictory) sources that isn't specific to you. Your hunger has evolved over 4 billion years and is entirely specific to you.

I like this site as a good source of general nutritional information. Plenty of info in there about general healthy eating, with plenty of articles on weight loss. There is also a good section in there that explains the different types of experiments used, and which ones are more scientifically sound. All the articles reference the scientific papers which the information is based on, so you can dig away and judge for yourself.

Agree that the best things are to (1) eat natural foods (buy food which doesn't have a list of ingrediants and prepare it yourself) (2) cut out junk, especially sugar (fat is absolutely fine as long as it is part of natural foods, such as meat, dairy products etc).

forget about the psuedo-scientific numbers... get the basics right.

inigo

Check out BBC's "Doc in da House" in YouTube and this website.

ford2600

Embrace the cold every so often....☺

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/12/151203135832.htm

YMMV

William F

Tiddlypeeps wrote: »

Based on the stats you listed so far in this thread your TDEE is probably around 2800/2900, that is the number of calories you burn everyday. Look for a TDEE calculator online to get a more accurate number as those numbers are just a best guess on what you stated here.

Your BMR is what your body burns at rest, it's sort of a minimum that you shouldn't really go below or you can start to see adverse effects. For you this is going to be around 1800/1900 calories a day (again use online calculators with all of your stats so you can get a more accurate number). So based on this if I were you I'd aim for about 2,000 calories a day, just a bit above your BMR.

As someone else mentioned 2 baps is going to be about 400 calories, eggs are about 70 calories each so that's 280 more. Assuming you didn't use butter or mayonnaise that's just shy of 700 calories for breakfast. If you did use butter or mayonnaise that could go up by another 100/200 calories. Depending on the rest of the day this in itself may not be too bad, if you tend to be the type of person that east a big breakfast and dinner but only a light lunch and little to no snacks (or various combinations) then it could be ok, but I suspect this isn't the case. Even if you cut out one bap and keep the eggs it cutting just those 200 calories alone could make a big difference (assuming you don't just eat more in the rest of the day to make it up).

That Sunday dinner tho is a big problem regardless of what way you come at it. Most Goodfellas pizzas are around the 1,000 calorie mark for a whole pizza, sometimes more. It's hard to guess what a plate of chips is because a plate can be any size, but for comparison a half a bag of chipper chips from a standard Irish chipper is about 400 calories, or a large fries from McDonalds is about 440 calories. So if you had the equivalent of a full bag of chips from a chipper that's 800 calories, making the whole meal around 1,800 calories. Given that your goal for a day should be around the 2,000 mark if you want to lose weight, I hope that puts it into a bit of perspective.

As others have suggested myFitnessPal for tracking calories is fantastic. Get yourself a kitchen scales too so you can measure what your portions are. It's hard at first but stick with it and it will eventually become habit. After a week or two of tracking the biggest problems with your diet should start to stand out like a sore thumb.

Also try to make choices that have more protein and fat and try to cut down on the carbs. Carbs don't fill you up for very long, you don't have to cut them out completely but I suspect at the moment you are probably eating more carbs than both fat and protein combined which isn't really a good place to be. I'm not sure if you are still fully vegetarian or not, but if you find it hard to get your protein intake up for whatever reason don't be afraid to try out protein shakes. They can be a very easy way to add extra protein and they are incredibly filling.

You don't have to change everything over night either. Just change what you think you can manage and work from there. The best changes are the ones you know you could stick to, it's lifestyle changes you want not just quick fixes.

Best of luck.

I took your advice and have narrowed my calories down to 2000 a day which I think is enough when measured in healthy food and not junk. I've shed four kilos since Monday which will tell you how many calories I must of been eating. I think my running schedule this week had a large part to play in it along with the diet.

rom

William F wrote: »

I took your advice and have narrowed my calories down to 2000 a day which I think is enough when measured in healthy food and not junk. I've shed four kilos since Monday which will tell you how many calories I must of been eating. I think my running schedule this week had a large part to play in it along with the diet.

You probably have an issue with hydration. Your body is probably used to holding on to water. You probably need to really focus on your fluid input. Probably there are times during the day that you think your hungry but you are actually thirsty. Do you ever get headaches , cloudy feeling or feel very tired.

William F

rom wrote: »

You probably have an issue with hydration. Your body is probably used to holding on to water. You probably need to really focus on your fluid input. Probably there are times during the day that you think your hungry but you are actually thirsty. Do you ever get headaches , cloudy feeling or feel very tired.

Yes now and again I do.

Itziger

So you were looking to lose a kilo per week and this past week you lost 4. You don't eat fast food but you speak of pizzas and 2 (!!!!) plates of chips. Not to mention the 2, fave number?, baps and 4, oops, eggs.

Don't know if serious.

One thing i will say is those calorie things on mapmy this and runmy that always seem generous to me. I stick with the 100 calories per mile idea. Your body self regulates I think most of us find after a while. When I started I was well overweight so losing the first 10kgs was straightforward,

I've settled down since and now hover about 67/68kg. I don't think overthinking the whole calorie counting is the way to go. "Oh, I've done a 10 miler. Must have 1,000 calories". You'll find you eat more and probably drink more water as you up the mileage.

William F

Ya thanks. I'm down 5kg now and I seem to be eating a lot less carbohydrates than I was eating before.

I did away with eating calories that I was burning off in a run and now just stick to 2000 a day and I have no problems with fatigue or tiredness.