Alcove shelving advice

nialldinho

Hi

I'm a complete novice but would like to try to make my own shelving in a living room alcove beside my chimney breast.

The alcove is approx 980mm wide and 163mm deep.

I'd like to keep the shelves at about 50-65mm thick.

I was thinking of using plywood for top and bottom of the shelves and a hardwood front edge.

I would then like to paint the shelves to match the walls using a vinyl matt paint.

I'd love some advice on the following to begin with:

1. What type and thickness of plywood to use? (Looking at woodworkers.ie for reference)
2. What type of hardwood to use for front edge?
3. What type of fixings to use to mount a softwood frame on the three walls which I believe are all just plasterboard?

Thanks!

recipio

nialldinho wrote: »

Hi

I'm a complete novice but would like to try to make my own shelving in a living room alcove beside my chimney breast.

The alcove is approx 980mm wide and 163mm deep.

I'd like to keep the shelves at about 50-65mm thick.

I was thinking of using plywood for top and bottom of the shelves and a hardwood front edge.

I would then like to paint the shelves to match the walls using a vinyl matt paint.

I'd love some advice on the following to begin with:

1. What type and thickness of plywood to use? (Looking at woodworkers.ie for reference)
2. What type of hardwood to use for front edge?
3. What type of fixings to use to mount a softwood frame on the three walls which I believe are all just plasterboard?

Thanks!

Seems a simple job but there are pitfalls. Have you a saw to accurately rip and crosscut wood ? Have you some way of machining hardwood ?
If I'm reading you correctly you are making thin boxes 50 - 65mm deep so I'd say 12 mm ply top and bottom would be fine but you need to fix them to the hardwood neatly - just nailing from the front would not work.Machining a rebate with a router would be ideal.
Any hardwood will do but poplar is virtually grain free and takes a paint finish nicely.
Don't forget that your alcove is unlikely to have nice 90 degree angles so expect to have to cut the shelves at 88 or 92 angles etc as needed or run verticals up the walls and attach the shelves to them at 90 degrees.
Best of luck and let us know !!

nialldinho

recipio wrote: »

Seems a simple job but there are pitfalls. Have you a saw to accurately rip and crosscut wood ? Have you some way of machining hardwood ?
If I'm reading you correctly you are making thin boxes 50 - 65mm deep so I'd say 12 mm ply top and bottom would be fine but you need to fix them to the hardwood neatly - just nailing from the front would not work.Machining a rebate with a router would be ideal.
Any hardwood will do but poplar is virtually grain free and takes a paint finish nicely.
Don't forget that your alcove is unlikely to have nice 90 degree angles so expect to have to cut the shelves at 88 or 92 angles etc as needed or run verticals up the walls and attach the shelves to them at 90 degrees.
Best of luck and let us know !!

Thanks a mil. I was going to see if I could get the wood supplier to cut for me as I'd be a bit wary of doing that wrong alright! So giving them correct measurements/angles will be important. Any advice on how best to do that?

recipio

nialldinho wrote: »

Thanks a mil. I was going to see if I could get the wood supplier to cut for me as I'd be a bit wary of doing that wrong alright! So giving them correct measurements/angles will be important. Any advice on how best to do that?

You can buy a digital protractor fairy cheaply and take readings off the back wall of the alcove. To be honest, its a tricky project to do without some tools and experience. If I could make one suggestion its to use a new cheap flush door. You can cut them down to size and glue in a batten into the cut edge for reinforcement ( between the veneered surfaces ) which will have more than enough strength for your dimensions.

nialldinho

recipio wrote: »

You can buy a digital protractor fairy cheaply and take readings off the back wall of the alcove. To be honest, its a tricky project to do without some tools and experience. If I could make one suggestion its to use a new cheap flush door. You can cut them down to size and glue in a batten into the cut edge for reinforcement ( between the veneered surfaces ) which will have more than enough strength for your dimensions.

Thanks. Will look into the door option too!

recipio

nialldinho wrote: »

Thanks. Will look into the door option too!

Flush doors have a kind of paper grid in them producing what's called a 'torsion box' which is very stiff.
I've made lots of shelves using them cut down the middle and it works a treat.The only slight problem is glueing in the batten of softwood into the cut edge and it must be a snug fit.

One shot on kill

One sheet of moisture resistant mdf would neatly FO the whole lot aand save all the messing around with solid wood. A tube of 2 pack filler then for the joints and they will be the right job.

recipio

One shot on kill wrote: »

One sheet of moisture resistant mdf would neatly FO the whole lot aand save all the messing around with solid wood. A tube of 2 pack filler then for the joints and they will be the right job.

MDF will begin to sag with the first book - it is 980 mm wide. Could you elaborate.?

One shot on kill

same way you will make a traditional book case shelve. In the same manner just using the mdf. At 950 mm it will be perfect.

recipio

One shot on kill wrote: »

same way you will make a traditional book case shelve. In the same manner just using the mdf. At 950 mm it will be perfect.

See www.sagulator.com. The eye will pick up even the slightest sag in the middle of a shelf.The OP has actually designed a good solution considering a 3 foot bookshelf will need to carry about 150 pounds.

One shot on kill

recipio wrote: »

See www.sagulator.com. The eye will pick up even the slightest sag in the middle of a shelf.The OP has actually designed a good solution considering a 3 foot bookshelf will need to carry about 150 pounds.

Yes he has to be fair doesn't mean it's the only option doe. If that were the case you wouldn't have suggested to use a cut up door.


My method does work it can be done with basic tools and skills but can look very very.

I don't know your professional experience from your posts I've read over the last while you do offer some good sound advice.
But this method does work I've used it time and time again and am yet to get a complaint about it thank god.

recipio

One shot on kill wrote: »

Yes he has to be fair doesn't mean it's the only option doe. If that were the case you wouldn't have suggested to use a cut up door.


My method does work it can be done with basic tools and skills but can look very very.

I don't know your professional experience from your posts I've read over the last while you do offer some good sound advice.
But this method does work I've used it time and time again and am yet to get a complaint about it thank god.

Well, you can calculate these things on www.woodbin.com/calcs/sagulator/.
If you enter 120 lbs as a typical load on a 3' bookshelf ( the worst scenario) made of 18 mm MDF you will get a a deflection of about 1/4"
I have found that MDF will also 'creep' over a few weeks under load and looks terrible,
MDF is simply not stiff enough to take the loads at the dimensions the OP has given us.

Bonzo Delaney

Would the simplest idea not be to frame out the shelf in 2x1pao by fixing to the wall with 6x80 conc screws or what ever depth it is to the block wall
Either that or if there's more than 40 mm between the slab and the block wall tec 7 or similar and screw in metal plaster board anchors When this is done 9 mm Mdf to the top and bottom pined and glued to the 2x1frame
Then glue and pin a 63x 18 mm hardwood of choice dressing to the front. Ideally have a 10x9 mm rebate taken out of the hardwood to take a glue bead for the Mdf top and bottom sheet

recipio

The best design is simple design. I would avoid running vertical supports up the sides of the alcove. Simply screw battens into the sidewalls and machine the ends of the shelves ( technically make trenches ) to accept the battens. They can be 'stopped' so as not to appear from the front.
Of course this means having the correct gear to do this.

One shot on kill

recipio wrote: »

Well, you can calculate these things on www.woodbin.com/calcs/sagulator/.
If you enter 120 lbs as a typical load on a 3' bookshelf ( the worst scenario) made of 18 mm MDF you will get a a deflection of about 1/4"
I have found that MDF will also 'creep' over a few weeks under load and looks terrible,
MDF is simply not stiff enough to take the loads at the dimensions the OP has given us.

To be honest you can use all the formulas you want it will not beat time under tools and experience with the material. I'll say no more with you on the matter the choice is there for the op to decide.

Bonzo Delaney wrote: »

Would the simplest idea not be to frame out the shelf in 2x1pao by fixing to the wall with 6x80 conc screws or what ever depth it is to the block wall
Either that or if there's more than 40 mm between the slab and the block wall tec 7 or similar and screw in metal plaster board anchors When this is done 9 mm Mdf to the top and bottom pined and glued to the 2x1frame
Then glue and pin a 63x 18 mm hardwood of choice dressing to the front. Ideally have a 10x9 mm rebate taken out of the hardwood to take a glue bead for the Mdf top and bottom sheet

This is exactly how I'd go about it.

Bonzo Delaney

One shot on kill wrote: »

To be honest you can use all the formulas you want it will not beat time under tools and experience with the material. I'll say no more with you on the matter the choice is there for the op to decide.


This is exactly how I'd go about it.

Backs quietly out of the room as two woodcraft Jedi knights about to go at it.

Miname

Get someone to do it and don't be wasting your time buying tools for a shelving project.

Bonzo Delaney

Miname wrote: »

Get someone to do it and don't be wasting your time buying tools for a shelving project.

I wouldn't knock it on the head altogether it's only shelving and we all have to start somewhere
There's no shame or harm in getting something wrong when starting out once some lesson is picked up and learned from it.

recipio

Miname wrote: »

Get someone to do it and don't be wasting your time buying tools for a shelving project.

You mean pay some guy who will charge for labour,profit,materials,vat @ 23% and still end up with bad workmanship ? That's the problem facing most of us so buying your own tools begins to look like the cheap option.
Oh - not to forget the job satisfaction.;)

Miname

recipio wrote: »

You mean pay some guy who will charge for labour,profit,materials,vat @ 23% and still end up with bad workmanship ? That's the problem facing most of us so buying your own tools begins to look like the cheap option.
Oh - not to forget the job satisfaction.;)

Are you serious with that statement? I thought you worked in the trade. How many pieces will he need to buy to be able to make it properly? How long will it take him to make it? Will he even finish it or just get sick of it half way through as the novelty wears off? Do you honestly see him being able to source cheaper and knowing the right materials for the job? I see it time and time again where everyone reckons they will make furniture, buy a heap of tools and then realise the time it takes and end up getting someone else in.

recipio

Miname wrote: »

Are you serious with that statement? I thought you worked in the trade. How many pieces will he need to buy to be able to make it properly? How long will it take him to make it? Will he even finish it or just get sick of it half way through as the novelty wears off? Do you honestly see him being able to source cheaper and knowing the right materials for the job? I see it time and time again where everyone reckons they will make furniture, buy a heap of tools and then realise the time it takes and end up getting someone else in.

Well, if the OP is posting on here for advice I think he is well motivated.He could do the entire job for the price of a flush door and a circular saw. There is simply no comparison between the cost of DIY and hiring a tradesman.A few jobs around the house will pay for the cost of the tools in no time.

colm_mcm

Id just get a few 800 or 900mm floating shelves tbh.
No cutting, no painting, only tools needed would be a drill and a screwdriver.

http://www.homestoreandmore.ie/cabinets+storage/capri-floating-wall-shelf-set-80cm-white/invt/061504

Deeper than what you need though, but only €10
It might look good up against the wall side, with a gap between the shelf and the chimney breast.

recipio

colm_mcm wrote: »

Id just get a few 800 or 900mm floating shelves tbh.
No cutting, no painting, only tools needed would be a drill and a screwdriver.

http://www.homestoreandmore.ie/cabinets+storage/capri-floating-wall-shelf-set-80cm-white/invt/061504

Deeper than what you need though, but only €10
It might look good up against the wall side, with a gap between the shelf and the chimney breast.

Maximun load is 10 kg. A bookshelf a meter long loaded with books will weigh about 54 kg.

colm_mcm

Is it going to be a bookshelf loaded with 54kg of books though?

You were the first person in the thread to mention books AFAIK

recipio

colm_mcm wrote: »

Is it going to be a bookshelf loaded with 54kg of books though?

You were the first person in the thread to mention books AFAIK

Once, a friend of mine got a 'tradesman' to put up some shelves. He then loaded them with his collection of Waterford glass, mostly wedding presents. During the night there was an almighty crash - you can guess the rest.
The most important consideration when putting up shelving is Murphy's law.;)

Seve OB

recipio wrote: »

Oh - not to forget the job satisfaction.;)

This. You can't beat it

One shot on kill

There's alway horror stories with anything. Been honest I think there abit of **** talk going on here.

Ye plenty of job satisfaction in doing work yourself.

If you wanna do the shelves yourself do. If you want to get a tradesman in do and get references. If you can do it right do it. If you can't it's not worth the

Anyway at 160 mm deep just use a corbal or two on the width rather than any center supports at all.



I've learn myself that I'm a cabinet maker. I'll stick to what I do and let other lads do what they do. It's not worth the hastle and heart ache in the long run. 9 times out of ten the saving doesn't justify the hastle.

nc6000

What about getting some bookcases from Ikea and building them in?

http://www.ikeahackers.net/2015/09/hemnes-custom-built-storage-unit.html