Questions about Loughlinstown Workhouse.

Sapphire3

Hello All

I have a question and was wondering whether any of you can help me. I was researching family records online and I came across my Grandmother's birth certificate.

Apparently she was born in the Loughlinstown Workhouse in 1916, along with her twin sister. Her older brother was born there also around 1915. I was a little shocked when I read this, because she has 5 more brothers and sisters (younger than her) and they weren't born in the Workhouse plus, from what I remember (of what she told me) they were rather close and grew up in a nice house, all happy as larry. She never gave me any indication of ever been in the workhouse! I noticed also, that my Great Grandmother used her maiden name when giving birth (so perhaps she was unwed at the time??)...yet she seemed to have been married when she had the later children. The kids weren't put up for adoption or anything like that, and so she raised them.

Anyway, I am babbling lol. In short, My question is: Is it possible that the Loughlinstown Workhouse was also used as a hospital for giving birth? Or did you have to enter the workhouse if you were unmarried?

Also, was it possible back then that an unwed mother could actually keep and look after her children without any stigma (although I doubt it!!!) and were they then able to get married later in life? I am just perplexed about all of this, so any info would be appreciated thanks.

L1011

Most workhouses basically became the county hospitals. That one still is albeit no maternity services now.

Very few people were in workhouses in the conventional way in the 1910s, as they'd moved on to something a bit more like modern welfare.

tabbey

Workhouses had infirmaries, in the mid 1800s, they were frequently the only hospitals within reach for many people, therefore they were used as local hospitals. If someone living in rural Ireland was seriously ill, the relieving officer (now known as Community Welfare Officer) had the power to arrange transport to the workhouse infirmary, the forerunner to our ambulance service.

Rathdown Union ran the workhouse at Loughlinstown for all the union.By 1915,people in Blackrock or Dalkey might get the tram to Saint Michael's or Monkstown Hospitals, but the residents of Bray and North Wicklow would have generally used Loughlinstown.

After independence, the government closed the workhouses in name, but it was largely a change of name. Some became old folks homes, for example, St Vincent's, Athy, and St Colman's Rathdrum. Others such as the South Dublin Union became general hospitals with large long stay accommodation for the elderly, first as St Kevin's and from 1971, known as St James. Rathdown Union workhouse, Loughlinstown, became St Columcilles hospital, and continued to be the main general hospital for Co Wicklow.

It was not only the republic which did this, one only has to look at the Lagan Valley Hospital, or the older buildings in Belfast City Hospital, to observe their workhouse origins.

pinkypinky

Just add, workhouses continued in Dublin for longer than the rest of the country, because of the much larger population.

P. Breathnach

The workhouses morphed over a number of years from their original model to providers of healthcare or other community services. Most particularly, the introduction of Old Age Pensions in 1908 and a scheme of National Insurance in 1911 meant that far fewer people became truly destitute. This accelerated a trend that was already established.

In looking into the records of a workhouse in the west of Ireland around 1890-1900, I found that there were many births recorded, most of them being to women who were not married (although in some cases the father's name was recorded). This was in the context of home births being the norm, so I interpreted that unmarried girls who got pregnant were either turned out of the family home or, at best, were sent away to have their babies.

P. Breathnach

While I'm in amateur historian mode, I should also point out that the functions of the Boards of Guardians (who were responsible for the workhouses) were passed to the newly-created County Councils in 1898. That changed the context in which the workhouses operated.

tabbey

pinkypinky wrote: »

Just add, workhouses continued in Dublin for longer than the rest of the country, because of the much larger population.

Technically they were all closed as workhouses in 1924 by James Aloysius Burke aka Seamus de Burca, as Minister for Local Government and Public Health.

In reality, many continued to provide the services as before, but run by the county boards of health, rather than poor law unions. Over the decades, workhouses and county infirmaries were rationalised, and morphed into modern hospitals or homes for the elderly. With motor ambulances and cars, buses etc, there was no longer the same need for so many local hospitals.

pinkypinky

Agreed, but I do have a death cert for someone who died in the "south Dublin union" in 1942.

Waitsian

I think we're all aware of Magdalene Launderies and Industrial Schools but my grandfather's eldest sister had two children out of wedlock, in 1902 and 1908. It was in a village in South Armagh, a village that had a Sisters of Mercy convent no less. Both births were registered without a father's name. The two children were both baptised in the village chapel. The first born son has a note in parish records as 'Illegitimate' and the second 'illegitimate, father purported to be AN Other'.

The mother was not ostracised by either her family or the community. She lived with her parents and the children were raised as normal. She continued to work and the two boys went to school. My great aunt did though, in 1915, marry the man purported to be the father of her second son.

pedroeibar1

Reverting to the OP – I would infer that the absence of the father’s name on the birth cert would suggest illegitimacy. At the date in question most births were in the home and a local midwife was used. The lady in question gave birth to twins, so fear of complications could be a reason for entry to the workhouse/infirmary (rather than being shunned by the family). There is an active local history group in Foxrock that might help with more info. on the workhouse.
How far we have progressed - St. Colmcilles, once a workhouse housing Famine-era paupers today houses the National Obesity Centre.

pedroeibar1

mod9maple wrote: »

I think we're all aware of Magdalene Launderies and Industrial Schools but my grandfather's eldest sister had two children out of wedlock, in 1902 and 1908. It was in a village in South Armagh, a village that had a Sisters of Mercy convent no less. Both births were registered without a father's name. The two children were both baptised in the village chapel. The first born son has a note in parish records as 'Illegitimate' and the second 'illegitimate, father purported to be AN Other'.

The mother was not ostracised by either her family or the community. She lived with her parents and the children were raised as normal. She continued to work and the two boys went to school. My great aunt did though, in 1915, marry the man purported to be the father of her second son.

I have an 1890’s workhouse birth in my tree although I’ve yet to prove that the eventual husband was the father of the first child – the girl in question was six months pregnant with the second when they married.

tabbey

pinkypinky wrote: »

Agreed, but I do have a death cert for someone who died in the "south Dublin union" in 1942.

In the 1980s, when Dublin had a number of hospitals north and south of the Liffey, with one on call north and south, woman I knew suffered a fractured limb. When she heard that St James was on call that night, she decided to wait until the morning for treatment, rather than go into the union.

Sapphire3

Thanks everyone for your answers, this gives me a lot of food for thought.

I don't have the full birth certs with me at the moment (although I hope to get another copy soon), however I think that My Great Grand Mother's husband's name, was listed on the birth certs as the father-I am pretty sure I remember seeing his name listed on them.

I also noticed that when I did some research online my Grandmother and her twin sister are listed twice on the birth registers. They are listed under my Great Grandmother's maiden name and also again, under my Great Grandmother's married name. Weird. I wonder if it's possible that the twins requested another birth cert, a couple of years after my Great Grandmother got married with their father's name. Is that possible?

pinkypinky

Re-registration of children born to parents who later married each other was allowed, so it might be the case here.

Sapphire3

Ah I see, thanks for the clarification.

shar01

Hi Sapphire3,

My grandmother was born in Loughlinstown in 1923 to an unmarried mother. When we got some info from AIRR, we were surprised to find out she was there for 10 months before being boarded out. So there was an "orphanage" element to the place too.

S.

Sapphire3

Very interesting information Shar01, thanks. So basically, it was still being used as a sort of unmarried mothers home even in the 20s.
I will need to find more info on the place, as well as my Great Grandmother I assume that National library is the place to start?

Sorry for all of the silly questions, I am still pretty new to all of this research, although I find it fascinating.

pinkypinky

Sapphire3,

The National Library probably won't have anything on Loughlinstown. It'll either be in the National Archives or Wicklow Co. Archive. However, I would start by making contact with Liam Clare of the Foxrock Local History Club. He gave a talk on Loughlinstown to the IGRS earlier this year and would be considered an expert on it. http://foxrocklocalhistory.ie/

PP

shar01

Hi Sapphire3,

I’m not sure Loughlinstown Hospital was a home for unmarried mothers – maybe someone else can confirm.

Not sure if any of the info below will be of any use to you but here goes…

I wrote to the AIRR project in Department of Children, Hawkins House, Dublin 2 with what little information my grandmother remembers. Within a fortnight I had received copies of the minutes of meetings for the Rathdown Union Board of Guardians. They confirmed that Nan went to a house on the Commons Road, Loughlinstown – she was boarded out to a Mrs Smyth of Riverside Cottage. What surprised us was that Nan was in Loughlinstown from May to November 1923. (I’m putting in this info in the hope that someone else is searching for same and this thread will come up )


I also looked at the following documents in the National Archives.
BG 137 EH 1 - Relieving Officers Reports of Children at nurse - 1924 - 1936 - Loughlinstown Hospital / Rathdown Workhouse and BG 137 FN 22 - Porters Books - April -Sept 1923 - Loughlinstown Hospital / Rathdown Workhouse. There was no information about my grandmother.

I also requested BG 137 G40 - Indoor Relief Registers - 1921 - 1928 - Loughlinstown Hospital / Rathdown Workhouse but these were overlooked and not delivered to the Reading Room. Will try again in the new year.

From the index in the National Archives it would appear that the admission records for the period I’m looking for are lost.

Have you tried Findmypast.ie? They have admission records for the Dublin workhouses up to 1919. Might shed some light on how your great grandmother came to the workhouse.

Funnily enough, another unmarried great-grandmother gave birth in Rathkeale Workhouse in 1909 so it would seem (as P. Breathnach has said) many unmarried mothers did give birth in former workhouses.

Best of luck in your search,

S.