Question for DUB based pilots

Jack1985

Something that really I never quite understand for arrivals into Dublin is those aircraft that pass through Wales before turning right to Dublin, but pretty much before reaching Bristol seem to get a big shortcut in their routing almost direct to Dublin. An example of a routing we have (LGW-DUB),

KENET UN14 PEMOB UM17 VATRY

This looks fine on an OFP, but our aircraft never seem to head to VATRY - The only waypoint I can see any where close to the routing they take would be ABLIN? Do London ATCO's give a shortcut to those aircraft on a HDG or direct to ABLIN or even SORIN (on the VATRY1X) for example?

Noob question I know, just intrigues me.

highlydebased

From what you describe it could be UL18 LIPGO rather than UM17, but certainly watching FR24 you could be forgiven for thinking there are some very direct shortcuts given especially at night

(see chart http://www.ead.eurocontrol.int/eadbasic/pamslight-9DE04F697F8CF226D777B555C892B8B4/7FE5QZZF3FXUS/EN/Charts/ENR/AIRAC/EG_ENR_6_3_2_1_en_2015-09-17.pdf)

Teebor15

They will often get short cuts in the area you describe when A) The North Wales Military MTA (Military Training Area) are not active. The MTA's are mainly Mon-Fri 9 to 5 operations. And when co-ordinated with Dublin ACC a short cut on the STAR is preferable to fit in with the traffic sequence at Dublin.

It often takes a pro-active flight crew to request this or an equally proactive ATCO to co-ordinate this. Like all walks of life some will just not bother and leave the Aircraft fly the FPL route!

Locker10a

My other half is a controller on those sectors, I asked him and he says this.

The standard routing for Dublin inbounds is indeed UM17 VATRY picking up a STAR from there. Mon-Fri 9-5, the North Wales Military Training Area (NWMTA) is active. It is split into 2 vertical level bands, and the high level is released to the civil controllers most of the time, hence why overflights tend to get shortcuts to overfly Dublin and head out to their ocean entry points. For Dublin inbounds though, the NWMTA low level area must be released, and also the Aberporth ranges need to be cold to enable us to shortcut in via BADSI UL18 ABLIN (for RW28 or LIPGO for RW10). If both these areas go cold, and for longer than a 20 minute period, we will always give Dublin inbounds the shortcut, so at night we always do it, and its becoming more common as we encourage the military to proactively hand back airspace they don't intend to use each day. Its at our discretion and not Dublin, we are just required to let them know which way to look for their inbounds! We are a proactive bunch, and will do it whenever the activity allows

Jack1985

Locker10a wrote: »

My other half is a controller on those sectors, I asked him and he says this.

The standard routing for Dublin inbounds is indeed UM17 VATRY picking up a STAR from there. Mon-Fri 9-5, the North Wales Military Training Area (NWMTA) is active. It is split into 2 vertical level bands, and the high level is released to the civil controllers most of the time, hence why overflights tend to get shortcuts to overfly Dublin and head out to their ocean entry points. For Dublin inbounds though, the NWMTA low level area must be released, and also the Aberporth ranges need to be cold to enable us to shortcut in via BADSI UL18 ABLIN (for RW28 or LIPGO for RW10). If both these areas go cold, and for longer than a 20 minute period, we will always give Dublin inbounds the shortcut, so at night we always do it, and its becoming more common as we encourage the military to proactively hand back airspace they don't intend to use each day. Its at our discretion and not Dublin, we are just required to let them know which way to look for their inbounds! We are a proactive bunch, and will do it whenever the activity allows

Thanks a mil for that! Makes a lot of sense really.

Locker10a

Jack1985 wrote: »

Thanks a mil for that! Makes a lot of sense really.

You're more than welcome ! any more questions I'd be happy to help