Incorrect signage on motorways for best exit to town x

guylikeme

Naas on the M4 at Maynooth rather than Kilcock(especially eastbound)
Lough ree east sign at exit 9 instead of 10 or 11 on athlone bypass
Kilcreggan racecourse exit on moate east exit on M6 instead of Kilcreggan itself

They can't all be mistakes surely. The roads don't seem to be any worse than each other from safety or traffic points of view so I'm miffed tbh on the TTI policy

Roger_007

One of the things that has always mystified me is the way that the old N classification of roads have all but disappeared where there is a motorway alternative. If you try to drive from Dublin to Navan without using the (tolled) M3, you would need a sat-nav. The old N3 seems to have disappeared.
Was this a deliberate policy to force people to use the motorway?

Cookiemunster

Roger_007 wrote: »

One of the things that has always mystified me is the way that the old N classification of roads have all but disappeared where there is a motorway alternative. If you try to drive from Dublin to Navan without using the (tolled) M3, you would need a sat-nav. The old N3 seems to have disappeared.
Was this a deliberate policy to force people to use the motorway?

The motorway is legally the N3, but under motorway restrictions. As there can't be 2 N3s the old road is redesignated as an R road.

Jimbob1977

The pre-motorway Dublin to Limerick road (N7) is now reclassified as a regional road R445.

It was probably the busiest road in the country ten years ago. Now it's just like any minor road.... Just higher quality

Victor

Roger_007 wrote: »

One of the things that has always mystified me is the way that the old N classification of roads have all but disappeared where there is a motorway alternative. If you try to drive from Dublin to Navan without using the (tolled) M3, you would need a sat-nav. The old N3 seems to have disappeared.
Was this a deliberate policy to force people to use the motorway?

National routes (currently includes all motorways) are the responsibility of TII (former NRA), other roads are the responsibility of councils. Leaving the N3 as a national route would have cost TII money.

If you want to travel from Dublin to Navan, without using the M3, just follow the R147.

Roger_007

Victor wrote: »

?..........

If you want to travel from Dublin to Navan, without using the M3, just follow the R147.

Unfortunately most of the signposts at roundabouts etc don't mention anything about Navan. You see signs for places like Skryne and Kilmessan, (neither of which are actually on the R147), but no indication that the road eventually goes to Navan or Kells or Cavan.

Victor

Then people need to get over themselves and buy either a map or a sat-nav. You know, personal responsibility.

The most fuel-efficient and safest way to get to Navan is via the M3.

marno21

Portumna is signed from the M6 westbound at junction 17, however it's quite longer compared to hopping off at J16 Ballinasloe and going to Portumna from there

Sam Russell

Craughwell is signposted from Galway City via the M6 which, on exiting the M6, leaves a dreadful boreen to be negotiated instead of directing traffic on the old N6 that passes through the village.

Carawaystick

marno21 wrote: »

Portumna is signed from the M6 westbound at junction 17, however it's quite longer compared to hopping off at J16 Ballinasloe and going to Portumna from there

The n65 is from Portumna to j17 on the M6

Malahide is signed at the m50/m1/r139 junction but not at the east end of the r139!
Also not the best way to go to Malahide

Feed Up

Take the N4/M4 heading west and Sligo and Galway are the same distance per the signs. Then a couple of miles out the road Galway is suddenly 8km nearer than Sligo!

D.L.R.

Derry is signed on the M50 via the N2, even though its clearly faster via the M1.

plodder

https://www.google.ie/maps/@53.3873379,-6.3565602,3a,75y,228.3h,93.48t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sX0t8CjUhVWmNEfHgznq8dg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

This one on the M50 has caught me out a few times. I don't use it often enough to remember what to do. There is no overhead sign for the city-centre (there is one painted on the road which I only just noticed now). Instinctively, you expect the left lane to be the one for the city centre. But, it's actually the right lane of the two leaving the mainline. But, by the time you get around the bend it's often too late to change, as traffic is careering down at speed. They should at least put one of the small square shaped signs on the gantry showing city centre traffic should be in the right lane.

guylikeme

D.L.R. wrote: »

Derry is signed on the M50 via the N2, even though its clearly faster via the M1.

Gets this as it's the primary n2 destination. Road needs downgrading as far as Ardeer. N33 renamed to n2 and bobs your uncle

marno21

guylikeme wrote: »

Gets this as it's the primary n2 destination. Road needs downgrading as far as Ardeer. N33 renamed to n2 and bobs your uncle

Same as on the M7/N18 in Limerick, Cork is signed as the destination for the M20 even though it's not the fastest way of going to Cork.

Victor

marno21 wrote: »

Same as on the M7/N18 in Limerick, Cork is signed as the destination for the M20 even though it's not the fastest way of going to Cork.

Oh?

guylikeme

Victor wrote: »

Oh?

Hes probably referring to the route through Michelstown/Hospital as the quickest. Depends on time of day etc of course. Also id wager most of the residents of the villages on this route don't like the 2nd/3rd cities traffic flying through them

Colm R

M8: Junction 13 Northbound for Mitchelstown also includes Limerick.

You can argue it is the fastest way to Limerick from here, but if I was encouraging anyone to go to Limerick, I would encourage them to drive to Junction 10 at Cahir and onto the N24.

kevin7

Colm R wrote: »

M8: Junction 13 Northbound for Mitchelstown also includes Limerick.

You can argue it is the fastest way to Limerick from here, but if I was encouraging anyone to go to Limerick, I would encourage them to drive to Junction 10 at Cahir and onto the N24.

I'd never have considered that route before, but maybe it has merit for having wider roads.

I looked it up on google maps and its an extra 27km and and extra 14 minutes, so, no, I think I'd rather stick with the quicker route.

Besides the R513 through Hospital is a pleasant enough drive - pretty quiet road, so not usually left feeling frustrated behind a slow moving convoy which always happens on long sections of the N20 or N24.

As this is a thread on dubious route signage, I'll add one....
The N18 northbound as you approach the junction of the M20, N18 and M7. Its a good spot to turn left for Limerick City, but the signmakers don't agree. The exit is signposted "Roxborough"...a small area of Limerick City... Only when you have committed to taking the exit to this little known place is it revealed that this is also the lane to be in for "City Centre"...too late if you are reading that sign now cruising alogn at 120kmph out on the mainline!

I guess it is a deliberate attempt to keep the traffic low coming into the city centre via Roxborough, but the "alternative" junctions on offer ... before it at the Dock Road and after it at the N24 ... are quite a distance out from town.

flazio

Just to correct some M6 junction numbers. The Ballinasloe west junction which mentions Portumna is 15 not 16. Exit 16 is the Kiltullagh/ Loughrea exit, technically speaking the N65 destination at Exit 16 should read Nenagh not Portumna. There's probably some rule that the exit sign East bound must match the signs Westbound and if you were heading to Portumna from the Galway direction you would certainly turn off there rather than keep going to Ballinasloe.
Incidentally Exit 17 is Athenry only.

D Trent

flazio wrote: »

Just to correct some M6 junction numbers. The Ballinasloe west junction which mentions Portumna is 15 not 16. Exit 16 is the Kiltullagh/ Loughrea exit, technically speaking the N65 destination at Exit 16 should read Nenagh not Portumna. There's probably some rule that the exit sign East bound must match the signs Westbound and if you were heading to Portumna from the Galway direction you would certainly turn off there rather than keep going to Ballinasloe.
Incidentally Exit 17 is Athenry only.

Athenry and Craughwell

Sam Russell

D Trent wrote: »

Athenry and Craughwell

To get to Craughwell from there is down an awfully narrow road. You would be better going down the old N7.

Carawaystick

flazio wrote: »

technically speaking the N65 destination at Exit 16 should read Nenagh not Portumna. There's probably some rule that the exit sign East bound must match the signs Westbound and if you were heading to Portumna from the Galway direction you would certainly turn off there rather than keep going to Ballinasloe.

Do secondary roads always have their destintions signed? or the next big town along the route signed?
Doesn't the N65 stop in Bossisokane anyway?
The N52 for example sure doesn't have Ardee/Dundalk signed in Nenagh Or Bossisokane

D Trent

Sam Russell wrote: »

To get to Craughwell from there is down an awfully narrow road. You would be better going down the old N7.

You mean old N6?

Obviously it's better to use old N6(R446 now) when coming from Galway city
But we're not talking about better roads to take
We're talking about Motorway signage

Sam Russell

D Trent wrote: »

You mean old N6?

Obviously it's better to use old N6(R446 now) when coming from Galway city
But we're not talking about better roads to take
We're talking about Motorway signage

Of course I mean the N6, sorry my typing is getting bad.

The incorrect sign is really as you approach the M6 where the sign directs one onto the motorway inappropriately if you are going to Craughwell. It is neither quicker, shorter nor is it a better road overall.

spacetweek

Not quite the same but why are the N8 and N9 still listed on M50 signage?

Victor

spacetweek wrote: »

Not quite the same but why are the N8 and N9 still listed on M50 signage?

Legally, the M8 and M9 are the N8 and N9 respectively.

There are still sections at Cork and Waterford that are national routes, but not motorway.

marno21

Victor wrote: »

Legally, the M8 and M9 are the N8 and N9 respectively.

There are still sections at Cork and Waterford that are national routes, but not motorway.

Surely M8 and M9 should be signed as it's quite confusing. Neither N8 or N9 are signed from the N/M7 mainline and surely if it was to access these stretches of road at either end it would be N8 (R639) and N9 (R448)

mansize

Tullamore is signalled on the N7/N8 turn off for Nenagh, as its on the N52 route Nenagh to Dundalk, but the Roscrea exit much later better for Tullamore

guylikeme

marno21 wrote: »

Surely M8 and M9 should be signed as it's quite confusing. Neither N8 or N9 are signed from the N/M7 mainline and surely if it was to access these stretches of road at either end it would be N8 (R639) and N9 (R448)

The signs are generally for destinations(or major junctions a la m8 m9 turnoff). Old road of another motorway from m7 is too specific. Would be like signposting dingle from Red cow

etchyed

Victor wrote: »

Then people need to get over themselves and buy either a map or a sat-nav. You know, personal responsibility.

Not the first time I've seen you express this aggressively stupid opinion, Victor. The logical conclusion to your argument is that we need not have any road signage at all.

It is a valid and reasonable expectation (not to mention quite typical abroad) that alternative routes to tolled motorways (and indeed to un-tolled motorways) be signed properly. That is not done in Ireland.

There is no good reason why road classification on signage needs to be intrinsically related to who maintains the road. In Britain, A-roads and trunk roads are not the same thing, meaning it is possible to have a local authority maintaining an A-road.

For purely legislative reasons, when TII hands over a road to a council in Ireland, it changes to an R number and needs to be extensively re-signed, all because the road classification system lacks any nuance. Case in point being the relatively recent de-trunking of all N-roads within the M50. Re-numbering these roads within the M50 serves no purpose. It is a waste of money and it is confusing. It is of no relevance to the motorist whether a road is managed by TII or Dublin City Council.

When roads parallel to a newly-constructed motorway are de-trunked, the conversion to regional route means they are signed in accordance with regional route signage guidance. So you are just directed to the next town along, as would be appropriate on a genuine regional route. But in reality, that's not the function these roads serve. They are an alternative to the motorway for many motorists. This is particularly true on the R147 (old N3).

In fact, the NRA actually recognised this as an issue (thereby presumably disagreeing with your "personal responsibility" nonsense), by recommending that ex-national routes have their R-number on a yellow background, to distinguish them from common or garden regional roads. Unfortunately, there don't seem to be many people who actually know about this.

The stupidity of the current system is underlined by the common use in everyday speech of, for example, "the old N7", or how traffic reporters will often say things like "disruption on the R147 (that's the old N3)".

TL;DR - Our current road classification system doesn't allow a road to change hands without it being pointlessly and badly re-signed. This is why you can't follow signs to Cavan on the old N3. Nothing to do with Victor's "personal responsibility" b****cks.

BMJD

Not strictly incorrect signage, but on the M50 northbound, Exit 4 is signposted for Naul using the R108
https://goo.gl/maps/t6GpjxqYeBD2

Using the M50/M1 is far far quicker and safer than the R108, which is narrow, bendy and indirect. It also goes as far as Drogheda, so it's not like Naul is the destination on the road.

Carawaystick

Where would you sign it for then? Ballyboughal? Knocksedan?

marmurr1916

BMJD wrote: »

Not strictly incorrect signage, but on the M50 northbound, Exit 4 is signposted for Naul using the R108
https://goo.gl/maps/t6GpjxqYeBD2

Using the M50/M1 is far far quicker and safer than the R108, which is narrow, bendy and indirect. It also goes as far as Drogheda, so it's not like Naul is the destination on the road.

So it should be signed for its final destination of Drogheda?

Colm R

marmurr1916 wrote: »

So it should be signed for its final destination of Drogheda?

Its an interesting issue alright. Obviously it should not be signed for Drogheda, but should Naul be here? It is the next town in the opposite direction to Ballymun.

In a similar vain, Ashbourne is signposted as on the M1 northbound at Junction 3 for Swords. If you happen to be on this road going northbound and wanted to go to Ashbourne, it would be best to take this exit. But instead of following the R125, you should go back on the M1 south -> M50 -> M2.

The question really is, should Ashbourne be on this signpost at all?

Carawaystick

Colm R wrote: »

In a similar vain, Ashbourne is signposted as on the M1 northbound at Junction 3 for Swords. If you happen to be on this road going northbound and wanted to go to Ashbourne, it would be best to take this exit. But instead of following the R125, you should go back on the M1 south -> M50 -> M2.

Not true at rush hour in the morning....

Colm R

Carawaystick wrote: »

Not true at rush hour in the morning....

It may or may not be faster via the M50 at rush hour. I think the M50 (accidents aside) would be faster than getting through Swords and taking the R125. And the sign is there all day long.

I guess the question is, should Ashbourne be included on this sign? I don't think it should but I guess the rules state that this is the R125 and the first and next town is Swords and Ashbourne.

Colm R

Not Motorway, but does anyone know if this sign is still there:

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.9248255,-8.496932,3a,43.5y,71.59h,83.39t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sBjPj5QUOY-0kJlMwx5eQ-Q!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en

marno21

Colm R wrote: »

Not Motorway, but does anyone know if this sign is still there:

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.9248255,-8.496932,3a,43.5y,71.59h,83.39t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sBjPj5QUOY-0kJlMwx5eQ-Q!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en

No. All signs on dual carriageways approaching Cork have since been resigned to the latest version of the TSM.

Regardless what a stupid sign, surely they would use the R635/North Ring Rd to get to Mayfield/Ballyvolane?

Colm R

The sign went up when the new dual carriageway was built, but long before the subsequent bypass of Blackpool. But if you were to follow the sign for Ballyvolane, you would still end up in Blackpool village along with all the other traffic that remained on that road.

It was stupid alright.

marmurr1916

Colm R wrote: »

Its an interesting issue alright. Obviously it should not be signed for Drogheda, but should Naul be here? It is the next town in the opposite direction to Ballymun.

In a similar vain, Ashbourne is signposted as on the M1 northbound at Junction 3 for Swords. If you happen to be on this road going northbound and wanted to go to Ashbourne, it would be best to take this exit. But instead of following the R125, you should go back on the M1 south -> M50 -> M2.

The question really is, should Ashbourne be on this signpost at all?

I don't see why you would want to take such a long journey on congested roads to get to Ashbourne from Swords just because they're motorways.

These are the officially designated routes which is why they're signposted.

Also route quality can change - a few improvement schemes on a regional route and it's no longer a narrow, winding road but a nice wide, reasonably straight road of perfectly acceptable quality, unless you're of the opinion that all routes have to be dual-carriageway or motorway standard.

guylikeme

marmurr1916 wrote: »

I don't see why you would want to take such a long journey on congested roads to get to Ashbourne from Swords just because they're motorways.

These are the officially designated routes which is why they're signposted.

Also route quality can change - a few improvement schemes on a regional route and it's no longer a narrow, winding road but a nice wide, reasonably straight road of perfectly acceptable quality, unless you're of the opinion that all routes have to be dual-carriageway or motorway standard.

I disagree. If there is a safer route, then the R road should not be signposted. Let those with local knowledge make the choice of which route to take, but don't throw the tourists/blow ins on goat tracks. Congested or not. the M1/M50 lowers chances of head on collisions. And both are usually free flowing (albeit busy in the mornings/evenings as you state).

Cienciano

God help anyone on the M50 relying on signposts heading to Naul. You'll come off at santry instead of going up the M1

MJohnston

It's worth noting that directional signs aren't intended to show you the quickest route to somewhere - instead they're signed based on both the next primary destination (I'm not sure what the criteria is here, probably over a certain size of town), and terminal destination. Hence you get N2 on M50 with Derry, even though that may not be the fastest route.

Actually, the M50 might be one of the few places where this is a real problem, because you get so many spokes of radial routes closely connected together.

BMJD

marmurr1916 wrote: »

So it should be signed for its final destination of Drogheda?

It's no more or less valid as Naul imo. If it were up to me if leave both out, keep it to R108

Colm R

I think the pecularities and variances of R road signposting needs a thread of its own - simply because its a tad interesting!! (Can't believe I said that)

marno21

Why not sign it R108 with just Ballymun?

At the Red Cow junction the destination of the R110 is the City Centre yet it's omitted there.

On the N40 in Cork the R610 finishes dead in the city centre yet at J8 it's signed Douglas and Douglas only

Carawaystick

Cienciano wrote: »

God help anyone on the M50 relying on signposts heading to Naul. You'll come off at santry instead of going up the M1

Well as long as you don't go down past the Boot Inn;)

marmurr1916

marno21 wrote: »

Why not sign it R108 with just Ballymun?

At the Red Cow junction the destination of the R110 is the City Centre yet it's omitted there.

On the N40 in Cork the R610 finishes dead in the city centre yet at J8 it's signed Douglas and Douglas only

Because they don't want you to turn off the N40 at that point and take the Douglas Road into the city centre.

They want you to use the N27 to get into the city centre from the N40. Obviously if you pass the previous junction (Airport Road/Kinsale Road/South Link Road) and keep heading east you'll end up at the junction for Douglas, and if you want to get into the city centre, without going through Douglas to get back on to the N40 heading westbound towards the N27 junction, you'll have to use the R610 route to get into the city centre.

But that's not the route the authorities would prefer you to take because most of the route as far as the junction with the Old Blackrock Road is a series of busy single-carriageway roads (Douglas Road, part of High Street, Southern Road) that are almost entirely residential with lots of junctions with side roads that are all residential. Hence the reason it's not sign-posted as a route to the city centre from the mainline of the N40.

If you come off at the same junction, you can go straight ahead at the end of the slip road and use the Well Road (R853)/Skehard Road (R852) route to get to Blackrock and Mahon, including the Mahon Point shopping centre and retail park.

But the authorities don't want traffic from the N40 using that route to get to those places (it's busy enough anyway with commuter and other traffic) since it's a narrow enough single-carriageway road (apart from a short stretch of the Skehard Road past the top of the Well Road) that is almost entirely residential, with lots of junctions with side roads that are all residential.

The route they'd prefer you take is to continue eastbound on the N40 and take the second next junction (last one before the tunnel) for Mahon Point etc.

There's a reason that not all nearby major destinations and routes are signposted from motorways and other major roads - the reason being that the authorities want to encourage traffic to use particular routes, even if they're not always routes that people who know the area would necessarily use as their first choice.