Vasa trainer/dryland resistance

Kurt_Godel

Does anyone here use dryland resistance tools in their training? I'm considering getting a Vasa trainer and so curious if it might substitute for a pool.

pgibbo

I know guys from a swim background that used them when they were swimming competitively. They used them to compliment the pool. Very good by all accounts. Spotted this also

joey100

I wouldn't say it would hurt but it wouldn't take the place of swim training. I don't think it would substitute swim training, rather compliment it. It wouldn't help keep your 'feel' for the water, and for me the real hard thing about swim training is the breathing. Vasa would use the same muscles alright (upper body from looking at it) but would it be the same if you can breath mid stroke, at start of stroke, when ever you want really. The real difficulty in swimming is controlling the breathing and working on the air you get in in every breath. Trying to balance the effort versus expenditure, to stop yourself going into the red too quick. I'm not sure the vasa could replicate that. Unless you put your head in a basin of water when your doing it

peter kern

Kurt_Godel wrote: »

Does anyone here use dryland resistance tools in their training? I'm considering getting a Vasa trainer and so curious if it might substitute for a pool.

yes i do...
bicyle tubes

peter kern

btw i am not sure if it was rocky or rambo but i was impressed aobut the gym in the lorry so that might work well to built the vasa trainer into your car ????

Kurt_Godel

peter kern wrote: »

yes i do...
bicyle tubes

What areas do you target with them Peter?

tunney

Kurt_Godel wrote: »

What areas do you target with them Peter?

Possibly fixing punctures when out for a long cycle.

joey100

out of curiousity where are you looking to buy from Kurt? Any info I seen they look to be around 2000 dollars, so not far off 2000 euro before shipping and customs, that's serious money!

Kurt_Godel

Haven't looked at a EU source yet, just considering its potential. 3 swimmers in the house, a 60km round trip to the nearest pool or OW, so any investment might pay off over a few years.

peter kern

in your situation that might be useful
but i would think you could self build one for way much less money
using an old rowing machine ( as base ) and some old gym equipment or bicycle tubes.

peter kern

Kurt_Godel wrote: »

What areas do you target with them Peter?

lads engagement and triceps .
I also use them a good bit for run coaching.

joey100

Seen this on Slowtwitch and thought it might interest you kurt, only thing I would say is that the writer says they will do a test at the start of their dry spell to gauge fitness and then at the end to see how much they retained or built. Only problem I can see with this is the test is on the VASA not in the pool, the best judge of swim fitness is pool times, not being able to do sets on a VASA. Like to see them set a time in the pool before they finish up, then train using the vasa over the winter and then see what time they swim when they go back to the pool. Sounds like they will be updating it as they go on too so might be worth keeping an eye out for it,

http://www.slowtwitch.com/Training/Swimming/Crossing_the_Sun_s_Anvil_5537.html

peter kern

that test would be as meaningful as a 400 m tt for open water swiming... as for many people open water swimming has different challenges than pool swimming.

i have looked a bit into this and while i would certainly not be interested in a vasa trainer there is some interesting stuff as the concept .and ther is one aspect that is also very interesting from a coaching aspect .but you could buy or make it yourself something simpler for a fraction of the price of an vas trainer. and you only need a power meter if you want to play but not if you want to train

tunney

peter kern wrote: »

lads engagement and triceps .
I also use them a good bit for run coaching.

Useful in the bedroom too.

Kurt_Godel

peter kern wrote: »

that test would be as meaningful as a 400 m tt for open water swiming... as for many people open water swimming has different challenges than pool swimming.

i have looked a bit into this and while i would certainly not be interested in a vasa trainer there is some interesting stuff as the concept .and ther is one aspect that is also very interesting from a coaching aspect .but you could buy or make it yourself something simpler for a fraction of the price of an vas trainer. and you only need a power meter if you want to play but not if you want to train

I decided against one, based on a conversation with my swim coach. He is against them based on:
1) they are only useful for developing and correcting pull*, and you'd really need a coach observing while on the trainer.
2) wall mounted resistance cords are as useful for developing pull and backend muscles.

*also useful for training wall kicks, but thats not so useful for a triathlete.

shotgunmcos

Anyone used a Vasa Kayak ergometer?

joey100

Had a quick look at it Shotgun, looks good but it would leave out the technique part so I wouldn't be 100% you would be working out the right muscles.

Asked my brother about it, he's still into kayaking (currently on his way to Uganda to kayak the white Nile over Christmas and competes at national level in UK), he says he's seen them but reckons there is nothing they offer that can't be replicated by using resistance bands, free weights or even a normal rowing machine. Something similar enough to what I was saying as well about the technique, he wouldn't be confident that you would use the same muscles, nothing on the machine making you use the correct technique.

shotgunmcos

joey100 wrote: »

Had a quick look at it Shotgun, looks good but it would leave out the technique part so I wouldn't be 100% you would be working out the right muscles.

Asked my brother about it, he's still into kayaking (currently on his way to Uganda to kayak the white Nile over Christmas and competes at national level in UK), he says he's seen them but reckons there is nothing they offer that can't be replicated by using resistance bands, free weights or even a normal rowing machine. Something similar enough to what I was saying as well about the technique, he wouldn't be confident that you would use the same muscles, nothing on the machine making you use the correct technique.

cheers! It's the same limitation with the rowing erg. Even though the Concept 2 is the gold standard and an essential training bit of kit for rowers. Nothing replaces technique work on the water. You cant replicate the bladework or feel of moving water etc.. But it is good for fitness and general body form. Just wonder if you can tge same benefit from the KatakPro. Saw clips of World Champs training on a KayakPro that sparked the question

sconhome

I was thinking of building a trainer in the garage over the break using resistance bands and real paddles.

Set kayak on a frame off the ground so I work on the butt callouses too!