flail or disc mower/rushes, small tractor

PANADOL

Hoping to get on top of the rushes this year with a combination of topping,drainage and spraying. I will need to cut them some are quite heavy , my question would a 60 hp tractor drive a 4 to 5ft flail mower in a crop of heavy rushes, or would I be better with a disc mower, ground is quite rough in places??

smokey-fitz

PANADOL wrote: »

Hoping to get on top of the rushes this year with a combination of topping,drainage and spraying. I will need to cut them some are quite heavy , my question would a 60 hp tractor drive a 4 to 5ft flail mower in a crop of heavy rushes, or would I be better with a disc mower, ground is quite rough in places??

Is it a big area? Can you justify the cost of a new machine? Otherwise top, let grow back for 6 to 8 weeks spray with mcpa, leave them for a month and top again.

Last year I flailed 25ac during the summer, I let the rushes regrow and sprayed them in may this year. Left them for a month and topped them. I'd say I got a 99% kill and haven't had a rush back since.

djmc

id say you will be bate for hp for a flail mower
If you can get an old single chop harvester and take the shoot off
A small disk mower will do but you would need to keep it off the ground (lift arms raised) or you will wreck it on rough ground.

PANADOL

smokey-fitz wrote: »

Is it a big area? Can you justify the cost of a new machine? Otherwise top, let grow back for 6 to 8 weeks spray with mcpa, leave them for a month and top again.

Last year I flailed 25ac during the summer, I let the rushes regrow and sprayed them in may this year. Left them for a month and topped them. I'd say I got a 99% kill and haven't had a rush back since.

You did a great job I have about 70 acres to do
Your drains are working well or did u clean the drains as well

johndeere3350

What part of the country are you based?

marzic

PANADOL wrote: »

Hoping to get on top of the rushes this year with a combination of topping,drainage and spraying. I will need to cut them some are quite heavy , my question would a 60 hp tractor drive a 4 to 5ft flail mower in a crop of heavy rushes, or would I be better with a disc mower, ground is quite rough in places??

if they are heavy, a disc mower would do the job but it would be slow going and you would have a big raheen of stuff behind. A few years ago, one of the years with a half decent summer, my brother did about 25 acres for a lad, which was overgrown for years - kinda 5ft high. it was a 6ft lely disc with the guard taken off but he was driving a 390t 4wd and it still took him several days and a lot of diesel.

The good of it was that the weather was dry for weeks and they just burned the rushes in the rows.

You'd need a bit more grunt for heavy stuff on a flail mower i'd say if its to be left in the ground

PANADOL

djmc wrote: »

id say you will be bate for hp for a flail mower
If you can get an old single chop harvester and take the shoot off
A small disk mower will do but you would need to keep it off the ground (lift arms raised) or you will wreck it on rough ground.

I think ur right a single chop harvester is the way
To go, an old jf or tarraup

PANADOL

marzic wrote: »

if they are heavy, a disc mower would do the job but it would be slow going and you would have a big raheen of stuff behind. A few years ago, one of the years with a half decent summer, my brother did about 25 acres for a lad, which was overgrown for years - kinda 5ft high. it was a 6ft lely disc with the guard taken off but he was driving a 390t 4wd and it still took him several days and a lot of diesel. Tks an old single chop harvester might be the way to go then ??

The good of it was that the weather was dry for weeks and they just burned the rushes in the rows.

You'd need a bit more grunt for heavy stuff on a flail mower i'd say if its to be left in the ground

Single chop harvester might be an idea

PANADOL

johndeere3350 wrote: »

What part of the country are you based?

Roscommon

djmc

with 70 acres to do a sprayer might not be a bad idea
it would be the cheapest to buy the fastest to work with and longest lasting results and mcpa or d50 is cheap enough
any size tractor would drive a sprayer

smokey-fitz

PANADOL wrote: »

You did a great job I have about 70 acres to do
Your drains are working well or did u clean the drains as well

Drains are not great, that's the next milestone. I still have more to do too, about 35ac. Using a flail is a hell of a slow job, mine is a 8ft major and 100hp mf and it was on its knee's at times. Fastest speed was maybe 4kmph if light, could be 1kmph if heavy. I was averaging about 1ac an hour. If you got a 4ft I'd say it could be 2+ ac an hour! Thats alot of hours for the 70ac. If you already have a topper you could use that. Then spray the regrowth. At least then it won't cost as much, in time and diesel. A disc mower would be ok to, but a topper is better suited for the rougher ground.

Fuxake

smokey-fitz wrote: »

Drains are not great, that's the next milestone. I still have more to do too, about 35ac. Using a flail is a hell of a slow job, mine is a 8ft major and 100hp mf and it was on its knee's at times. Fastest speed was maybe 4kmph if light, could be 1kmph if heavy. I was averaging about 1ac an hour. If you got a 4ft I'd say it could be 2+ ac an hour! Thats alot of hours for the 70ac. If you already have a topper you could use that. Then spray the regrowth. At least then it won't cost as much, in time and diesel. A disc mower would be ok to, but a topper is better suited for the rougher ground.

A topper might be ok for light rushes but you have absolutely no business sending a topper into a field of heavy hardy rushes, if you have any intention of a long term relationship with your topper. The disc mower will handle heavy rushes way better. However, there is no doubt that the flail mower is the only man for rushes. If you go real slow, you get a great mulching which will act as a fertiliser in itself. Done some land (admittedly about 10 acres) and the grass that came immediately after was fantastic.

Then when the soft rush appears, hit em with MCPA. In the long term, you will have to come back again with MCPA, but the key is to follow up on soil fertility with whatever is needed (N,P,K lime etc). It is a given that you ensure all open drains are cleaned out so that water can flow away efficiently. Whether you need an expensive drainage job into these with pipes n stones or perhaps mole ploughing depends on the particular fields. One thing for sure is that there are a lot of fields of rushes all over the country which are that way due to poor management over many years. In some cases the cost of drainage is prohibitive but in many, mowing, spraying and soil fertility will do a lot.

I would also say that there is some heavy land types (eg corcas/ blue mud) which almost certainly benefit from being meadowed early in the year; ie don't graze in the spring, cut silage or wraps in May and then graze rotationally. A recipe for disaster in heavy land is set stocking with store cattle all year.

smokey-fitz

Fuxake wrote: »

A topper might be ok for light rushes but you have absolutely no business sending a topper into a field of heavy hardy rushes, if you have any intention of a long term relationship with your topper. The disc mower will handle heavy rushes way better. However, there is no doubt that the flail mower is the only man for rushes. If you go real slow, you get a great mulching which will act as a fertiliser in itself. Done some land (admittedly about 10 acres) and the grass that came immediately after was fantastic.

Then when the soft rush appears, hit em with MCPA. In the long term, you will have to come back again with MCPA, but the key is to follow up on soil fertility with whatever is needed (N,P,K lime etc). It is a given that you ensure all open drains are cleaned out so that water can flow away efficiently. Whether you need an expensive drainage job into these with pipes n stones or perhaps mole ploughing depends on the particular fields. One thing for sure is that there are a lot of fields of rushes all over the country which are that way due to poor management over many years. In some cases the cost of drainage is prohibitive but in many, mowing, spraying and soil fertility will do a lot.

I would also say that there is some heavy land types (eg corcas/ blue mud) which almost certainly benefit from being meadowed early in the year; ie don't graze in the spring, cut silage or wraps in May and then graze rotationally. A recipe for disaster in heavy land is set stocking with store cattle all year.

I have a selection of all 3 machines. Flail is best but a topper is a better bet over a disc mower. You will make **** of a disc mower on the type of ground rushes usually grow on. As you say this type of ground usually suffers due to lack of management and because of this its more than likely too rough for a disc, never mind the stones or rocks you might encounter. Also most toppers will mulch a bit compared to a disc mower which will just end up leaving rows that will take 6 months to rot down. So I would totally disagree about a disc mower.

A flail is the best job hands down, but the op has a 60 hp tractor and if he had a topper he would save a fortune on buying a small flail, diesel to run the flail or a contractor with a flail (I also do a bit of that) that will charge the guts of €60 an hour. That could amount to €4500 or over pretty quick.

PANADOL

Tks for ur reply but I think ill go with an old taarup forage harvester, easier on the tractor ,and with rough ground no business with a disc. Easier to run than a standard flail

PANADOL

smokey-fitz wrote: »

I have a selection of all 3 machines. Flail is best but a topper is a better bet over a disc mower. You will make **** of a disc mower on the type of ground rushes usually grow on. As you say this type of ground usually suffers due to lack of management and because of this its more than likely too rough for a disc, never mind the stones or rocks you might encounter. Also most toppers will mulch a bit compared to a disc mower which will just end up leaving rows that will take 6 months to rot down. So I would totally disagree about a disc mower.

A flail is the best job hands down, but the op has a 60 hp tractor and if he had a topper he would save a fortune on buying a small flail, diesel to run the flail or a contractor with a flail (I also do a bit of that) that will charge the guts of €60 an hour. That could amount to €4500 or over pretty quick.

Tks for the adviceI think ill go with an old jf forrage hRvester or taarup 53 inch dm 1350

patsy_mccabe

What have guys got against just licking the rushes? Just leave them then to rot away. Don't even bother cutting. Use roundup and do in a very hot day. I've cleared whole fields this way. You'll use feck all diesel and roundup. Easier on the tractor too.

PANADOL

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

What have guys got against just licking the rushes? Just leave them then to rot away. Don't even bother cutting. Use roundup and do in a very hot day. I've cleared whole fields this way. You'll use feck all diesel and roundup. Easier on the tractor too.

Yes good idea I thought the point of cutting rushes was to weaken them and create new growth which will absorb the weed killer better I dont have a licker just a sprrayer but you have given me an idea on the wet areas if I put a songe in a stick

ford 5600

Is there anyone near with a mulcher for hire ? It will chop it up the rushes so fine you will hardly see them , and it will act like dunging it. You don't have a swath of rushes smothering the grass. A great job , and about €40-45 an hour. Great job on furze bushes as well. Of course you will need to spray the re growth, fertilise and lime if needed , along with maybe a bit of drainage.

PANADOL

ford 5600 wrote: »

Is there anyone near with a mulcher for hire ? It will chop it up the rushes so fine you will hardly see them , and it will act like dunging it. You don't have a swath of rushes smothering the grass. A great job , and about €40-45 an hour. Great job on furze bushes as well. Of course you will need to spray the re growth, fertilise and lime if needed , along with maybe a bit of drainage.

hmm with 70 acres to do that could be expensive so I have located a taarup firrage harvester and fleming topper which I will buy for less than q1500 euro at a guess it would cost prob 2500 to hire a guy at 50 an hour

johndeere3350

Them taarup harvesters are pushing on now you might encounter a few repair bills.
I have a topper style mulcher and it's a great job chops it up really fine and the trash rots away in no time.
Ask a guy to look at it and give you a price.
Id break it down into 10 acre sections if I was you easier manage for yourself.
As I say to lads that I do it for the cutting and spraying is a bit like taking panadol for constant headaches.
Your taking away the symptoms but not solving the problem whitch is lime

smokey-fitz

johndeere3350 wrote: »

Them taarup harvesters are pushing on now you might encounter a few repair bills.
I have a topper style mulcher and it's a great job chops it up really fine and the trash rots away in no time.
Ask a guy to look at it and give you a price.
Id break it down into 10 acre sections if I was you easier manage for yourself.
As I say to lads that I do it for the cutting and spraying is a bit like taking panadol for constant headaches.
Your taking away the symptoms but not solving the problem whitch is lime

I agree but not all cases of rushes can be solved with lime. My ground is marl, the worst piece is like 10 cm of soil then marl. It's like a cement type soil which doesn't like to let water down. Also a very alkaline soil, so lime won't make any difference. It's better cutting and spraying to keep it under control, if let get out of hand, your loosing alot of ground that can produce grass.

johndeere3350

smokey-fitz wrote: »

I agree but not all cases of rushes can be solved with lime. My ground is marl, the worst piece is like 10 cm of soil then marl. It's like a cement type soil which doesn't like to let water down. Also a very alkaline soil, so lime won't make any difference. It's better cutting and spraying to keep it under control, if let get out of hand, your loosing alot of ground that can produce grass.

I know the type of ground alot of that around here too.
Like a vacume in wet weather and like concrete in dry.
I see it in places that would be swimming not 10ft from a drain pure blue mud.
The lime is still a help as alot of weeds grow from lack of lime.
There's a place down the road it needed 9 tonne of lime to the acre before he could get it right took a few years.
Good land now but it was just full of rushes before that.
Yes it's an awful waste of land just having it growing rushes.
The spray is good but it checks the grass I find

PANADOL

johndeere3350 wrote: »

Them taarup harvesters are pushing on now you might encounter a few repair bills.
I have a topper style mulcher and it's a great job chops it up really fine and the trash rots away in no time.
Ask a guy to look at it and give you a price.
Id break it down into 10 acre sections if I was you easier manage for yourself.
As I say to lads that I do it for the cutting and spraying is a bit like taking panadol for constant headaches.
Your taking away the symptoms but not solving the problem whitch is lime

Picked up a taarup for 600 not really much to them just a flail so not much to go wrong if I get 2 days work out of it it will have payed for itself, at 50/ hr it easy , but drainage also needs to be addressed stones and pipe/lime