Restocking hill Farm, going with 33 Lanark , 33 Perth Scotch and 33 Swaledale

HillFarmer

Hi All,
Still abroad but I'm restocking the home place for the cousin who's managing it.
Hill farm 200 acres with 8 acres of silage ground.
Looking for opinions on the below.

I plan to buy in 33 of each breed.

Lanark, Scotch and Swaledale.
Not sure if I should have Mayo Blackface in there instead of one of them?

80% every year will be bread to a terminal sire with 20% being bred back to a Hill Ram.
Cousin sells the lambs for himself of the terminal sire. 20% are kept as replacements depending on existing stock and replacement quality.


I'm interesting to see which of the breeds will perform the best on our hill, not steep, typical rough grass Hill in South West.

Obviously there will be differences within the breed but that will be out of my control


Anyway back to the point. I've bought some stock through the marts over the years but always had bad luck with disease etc.
Even bought big scotch rams at the big sales only for them to melt.

So I'm looking for any contacts of hardy sheep best of breeders all over Ireland.

Price isn't a big factor, the Genectics is what I'm looking for and sheep that are not overly minded.

Anyone with any good farmrer contacts / mart locations around ireland to pick this stock will be much appreciated.

I'm Home in March so will throw up the pics here to show what i bought!

arctictree

In my opinion, the best way to get good breeding stock is to contact a breeder and choose X amount of stock at your choosing from his/her flock.

kk.man

Be careful re stocking a hill farm (u probably no that already). Some 'hill sheep' might never had saw a hill never mind been on one!
Stick to traditional hill sheep they r the hardery and the best. Did u ever try the Borris ewe?

MayoAreMagic

Depends on where the farm is to be honest with you. I know of guys in Connemara who had mayo type ewes and crossed them with Lanarks. After a few years they were looking to cross the progeny back with Mayo rams because the Lanarks cross wasn't able to stick it on their hills and they had had two years of torture with animals coming down looking for grass. That would be the case for most of the toughest hills out west. And if a Lanark wont hack it, a swale definitely wont.

For me, it's like this, the hardiest animals you will get are good mayo ewes. Have a look at the mayo thread for more info on them as regards rearing crossbred lambs off the hill etc and different types etc. But, the better the ground, the more able it will be to sustain types like lanarks/swales etc. who might be able to put another couple of kilos on their lambs in the right conditions. There is a balance to be found and nobody can really tell you what is yours.

Id say, instead of looking for 30 swales and 30 Lanarks or whatever, have a look at what the better hill farmers are doing in the area. You will probably save a fair bit of money by just following their lead at the beginning.

Ard_MC

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Depends on where the farm is to be honest with you. I know of guys in Connemara who had mayo type ewes and crossed them with Lanarks. After a few years they were looking to cross the progeny back with Mayo rams because the Lanarks cross wasn't able to stick it on their hills and they had had two years of torture with animals coming down looking for grass. That would be the case for most of the toughest hills out west. And if a Lanark wont hack it, a swale definitely wont.

For me, it's like this, the hardiest animals you will get are good mayo ewes. Have a look at the mayo thread for more info on them as regards rearing crossbred lambs off the hill etc and different types etc. But, the better the ground, the more able it will be to sustain types like lanarks/swales etc. who might be able to put another couple of kilos on their lambs in the right conditions. There is a balance to be found and nobody can really tell you what is yours.

Id say, instead of looking for 30 swales and 30 Lanarks or whatever, have a look at what the better hill farmers are doing in the area. You will probably save a fair bit of money by just following their lead at the beginning.

Have you experience with Swale? I actually crossed Mayo ewes this yr in a hope of putting a bit of length into them and not lose out in the hardiness.

Research out of Scotland would put the swale ahead of any other hill breed there for foraging ability in the mountains.

MayoAreMagic

I would have, not an extensive amount because of what I have described. But in my experience, the lanark was a tougher animal than the swale. They are shorter and so easier to fatten. But Im not an expert on either to be fair.

Re the length, that is why people breed the mayo hill ewe to be short - shorter animals keep condition better and are easier to fatten, so they stick it on the hill better, in the mayo breed anyway, although Id imagine it is the same across them all.

Re the research, well that is surprising, because they would be getting compared to the Lanark there, but Im no expert on Lanarks or Swales either, Id have limited experience. As regards the Scottish research, that would be hills in Scotland, and they are of a higher quality than the hills in the west of ireland. You can see it on them, they are much grassier. That is why I say it depends on where you are. Put those Swales on hills in mayo and connemara and they arent able for it. The mayos will stick it out on them and rear a lamb off them in the summer.

Ard_MC

Will have to wait and see so, my plan was to cross back to a mayo again and then breed hilltex out of that for my lowlands.

Sure nothing ventured nothing gained...could be a quick experiment though!!

MayoAreMagic

Ya exactly. If you keep doing the same thing all the time you will learn nothing. Hope it works out for you

HillFarmer

arctictree wrote: »

In my opinion, the best way to get good breeding stock is to contact a breeder and choose X amount of stock at your choosing from his/her flock.

Fair point and that's what I'm thinking, jsut have to try to find breeders who breed for the Hill as opposed to the Sales day

HillFarmer

kk.man wrote: »

Be careful re stocking a hill farm (u probably no that already). Some 'hill sheep' might never had saw a hill never mind been on one!
Stick to traditional hill sheep they r the hardery and the best. Did u ever try the Borris ewe?

Good point, I've been stung before paying 400 and 500 euros a long way back for scotch rams only for them to melt.

never tired the Borris ewe, will ahve a google now

HillFarmer

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Depends on where the farm is to be honest with you. I know of guys in Connemara who had mayo type ewes and crossed them with Lanarks. After a few years they were looking to cross the progeny back with Mayo rams because the Lanarks cross wasn't able to stick it on their hills and they had had two years of torture with animals coming down looking for grass. That would be the case for most of the toughest hills out west. And if a Lanark wont hack it, a swale definitely wont.

For me, it's like this, the hardiest animals you will get are good mayo ewes. Have a look at the mayo thread for more info on them as regards rearing crossbred lambs off the hill etc and different types etc. But, the better the ground, the more able it will be to sustain types like lanarks/swales etc. who might be able to put another couple of kilos on their lambs in the right conditions. There is a balance to be found and nobody can really tell you what is yours.

Id say, instead of looking for 30 swales and 30 Lanarks or whatever, have a look at what the better hill farmers are doing in the area. You will probably save a fair bit of money by just following their lead at the beginning.

Thanks for your reply Mayo.
The farm is in south west Kerry on the coast, but not too exposed as we are in an inlet. Some good silage ground and rough grazing and then the Hill. it wouldnt be the worst of hills, we have cattle grazing there throughout the Summer.

I've only never had a Mayo or Lanark, always the perth type scotch seen in kerry Cork. They do well enough, but would love to see comparisions.

I picked up 4 Swaledale hoggets 4 years back late on a mart day. 80 euros a piece, they didnt look much but by god they are some sheep. They would be some of the best I had. Very wild, never came down to the silage fields always happy on the Hill and always came down in September with a good size lamb.



Looking at the neighbours around here, all teh younger generationa re mostly getting out of sheep or have left the area.
The older generation are not into genetics / recording as much as they should be imv. SO they all have the same perth type sheep I had, and on amrt day most of our stock would all come in to similar weights.


I'm up for a trip up to Mayo if you'll sell me the right type Mayos

cuff92

We at home breed mayo ewes and a small number of crossbreeds. Don't believe in the Ballinrobe sale all ewes pumped to the last imo.. I think in fairness if you go to maam cross and buy any number of average looking mountain ewes ull have good hill fareing stock. Alot a them animals are coming out of rougher spots than what your ground sounds like.

Us at home last year bred 30 ewes to a average lanark ram. Have to say the ewes Lambed un aided and left all live lambs on the ground. We finished all the lanark cross lambs no problem. Some before the hilTex lambs. We put the lanark ewe lambs to the hill wit the ewes and actually some of the lambs came in fat. Not them all but some. We couldn't get over it. So this year we bought a good lanark ram and ram lamb. Were going to chance breeding one cross into some a them and crossing them back to mayos again. Hopefully it will be an approvement

grassroot1

The BFM ewes around Dungarvan and in Tipp are they mostly Newton stewart type I think?
There is a guy near that area selling a different strain, he was on the Journal a year or two ago and usually has a sale in his yard cant remember his name though.

Louthmouth1

I have had and persevered with a few different types. Everything depends on the ground that is available as some areas can sustain a cross bred as the ground has some much proof. this is what I found mixing a good covering of green and good rough grazing. The Swale I tried pure and a cross with Lanark. I found ok but difficult be finish lambs I always had to sell as stores. The scotch really impressive growth rate and good lamb to sell but not an option if looking to keep replacements. I have seen some ewes leaving lambs behind them if the going got tough.

MayoAreMagic

Well fair enough HillFarmer. You probably have the ground to sustain Lanarks, Swales etc then. Id be interested to hear how that goes for you actually. Sounds like a good experiment in the making.

Also, if you decided you'd like a few Mayos, and the type of ewes Louthmouth1 was referring to on the other thread, Id be able to direct you to the guys he was dealing with, or others like them. Only happy to help out.

ganmo

I may take a picture of our hill so you can have a look at what cheviots can survive on

HillFarmer

ganmo wrote: »

I may take a picture of our hill so you can have a look at what cheviots can survive on

If you wouldnt mind. I'm abroad at the moment but will do the same when back.

We've had cheviot cross scotch before, and they were a nice ewe.

Do you run all cheviots?

ganmo

all chev ewes...bar one suffolk.

djmc

anyone know where i could get information on hill sheep farming
like can they be outwintered do they need supplement feed during winter do they lamb outdoors by themselves what breeds are hardy and docile do i need a dog or would they follow a bucket of nuts.
I have had cattle all my life and there are no hill sheep in my area but a lot of my land is peatland with heather and moorgrass scutchgrass etc.around 300 metres above sea level.
sheep might do better than cattle on this type land but i know little about them,

solerina

djmc wrote: »

anyone know where i could get information on hill sheep farming
like can they be outwintered do they need supplement feed during winter do they lamb outdoors by themselves what breeds are hardy and docile do i need a dog or would they follow a bucket of nuts.
I have had cattle all my life and there are no hill sheep in my area but a lot of my land is peatland with heather and moorgrass scutchgrass etc.around 300 metres above sea level.
sheep might do better than cattle on this type land but i know little about them,

From our farm. Yes, they are out wintered, most on the open hill, never indoors to be honest. They are fed nuts from Jan onwards....most will follow the nut bag, but only to a certain extent...get a good dog...wouldn't be without one ( or 3). Swaledale, Lanark, Mayo all very hardy.

ganmo

A good dog is important but no dog is better than a bad one on a hill

djmc

Thanks I appreciate the info.
I'm trying to decide if its worth my while as I have only about 50 acres of hill at home and another 50 on an out farm a few miles away and none of it is fenced for sheep only a few dry cattle during the summer.
The rest is used for dairy cows which take up a lot of my day.

Inchilad

Any update on this thread I wonder?am looking into getting a swale or lanark ram to breed replacements for hill off scotch ewes.be down in the south West too so I'm curious

Dylan collins

either cheviots or scotch they are good sheep for the hill i farm both and texels on lowland but dont touch westies there stone mad

Dylan collins

Inchilad wrote: »

Any update on this thread I wonder?am looking into getting a swale or lanark ram to breed replacements for hill off scotch ewes.be down in the south West too so I'm curious

i would go lanark

Inchilad

Dylan collins wrote:

i would go lanark

Any particular reason why?

Dylan collins

produce better lambs in my opinion or another good ram is the scotch perth type there good for producing good lambs

farmerjoe50

If you had a bit of lowland a cheaper option would be to buy ewes too old for the hill. In some places you could get them for 40 euro each and if fed well they could have a weaning rate of 1.5 lambs per ewe

Inchilad

farmerjoe50 wrote:

If you had a bit of lowland a cheaper option would be to buy ewes too old for the hill. In some places you could get them for 40 euro each and if fed well they could have a weaning rate of 1.5 lambs per ewe

Have a few of em!would keep em down lower for most of the year but let them bring a lamb up the hill for most of the summer.want them for replacements for the hill so just wondering which lads find better.i like the look of lanark/swales but wonder are they bit soft?plan will be to build up numbers for a few years and start breeding mules when numbers are sufficient.

White Clover

Inchilad wrote: »

Have a few of em!would keep em down lower for most of the year but let them bring a lamb up the hill for most of the summer.want them for replacements for the hill so just wondering which lads find better.i like the look of lanark/swales but wonder are they bit soft?plan will be to build up numbers for a few years and start breeding mules when numbers are sufficient.

Would the swale leave a better mule after her?
Lot of swaledales used for mule breeding in the north of England.

Inchilad

White Clover wrote:

Would the swale leave a better mule after her? Lot of swaledales used for mule breeding in the north of England.

I would say so.think thats a true mule really.swale by a blue leister.have a few scotch mule ewe lambs.look like good sheep.put a few back the hill this morning to see how they get on til july.will have a look whats what after shearing.

Dylan collins

give them some thriver it is good stuff i use it on my sheep and it gives them a real boost it helps them grow like ****

Inchilad

Dylan collins wrote:

give them some thriver it is good stuff i use it on my sheep and it gives them a real boost it helps them grow like ****

Gave em some last week and some cobalt before i put em back